JohnfromUK Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 8 minutes ago, Vince Green said: These new laws will be ignored in exactly the same way as the present laws get ignored. In Britain, at present, the maximum penalty for carrying a knife. That's just carrying not even using a knife, is four years in prison. How often does that happen? And this is a huge failing in the British law and justice system. For a law to be respected and complied with, it must be seen to be 'enforced'. Having laws that are known to be ignored by the enforcement authorities (usually the police) simply brings the law into disrepute. What is needed is a law system that is simple, clear, easily understood and policed/enforced. Just as an example, shoplifting is rife because it is well known in the communities where this is almost a way of life, that they will not be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 On 20/07/2023 at 14:39, discobob said: Don't worry - we will have Sharia Law in the not too distant future.... so what will they use to hack a hand or the odd bonce or seven off then🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 how did the banning of assault rifles fair in stopping related murders in the UK near on 40 years since? not worked too well really has it seeing as if you're a criminal you really don't give a flying **** what the law says🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 6 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said: how did the banning of assault rifles fair in stopping related murders in the UK near on 40 years since? not worked too well really has it seeing as if you're a criminal you really don't give a flying **** what the law says🙄 As ever, laws are for the law abiding and for the complete disregard of the scummers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 For as long as I can remember I have had a penknife of some sort in my possession which I carry at all times. This started with a single blade for sharpening pencils at school and cutting string on various projects. Through most of my working career I carried a Swiss Army knife which would be used in the office, workshop and even the pub to open bottles, tighten hinges and repair office furniture. On one occasion I remember well the saw was used to trim a pallet to allow it to fit in a delivery vehicle. The only time it was surrendered was during flights abroad on business and pleasure. The reason for raising this is my daughter is worried that I will be arrested if ever searched for carrying a “ bladed article in a public place”. That knife is part of my psyche for which I have carried in one way or another for seventy odd years. If I used it in an aggressive way, which I would not , the thought of loosing my guns is a big deterrent. As stated by others anything can be classed as a weapon, I carry a screwdriver, adjustable spanner and pliers in my door pocket of the Disco . If stopped by the Police they would hold that against me but the number of times I’ve helped Farmers and others at the roadside justifies them being in that place. Rant Over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 I'm not entirely sure machetes are being banned. Don't take my word for it as it all seems very wishy washy at the moment, but the headline I read said zombie knives and machetes, which I read as meaning 'zombie' machetes. I read up on what defines a zombie knife and from what I read it seems to be a blade with a point, that has more than one hole in the blade, that has multiple points and is probably painted silly colours or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Just now, JohnfromUK said: And this is a huge failing in the British law and justice system. For a law to be respected and complied with, it must be seen to be 'enforced'. Having laws that are known to be ignored by the enforcement authorities (usually the police) simply brings the law into disrepute. What is needed is a law system that is simple, clear, easily understood and policed/enforced. Just as an example, shoplifting is rife because it is well known in the communities where this is almost a way of life, that they will not be prosecuted. I don't think it is the police. I think the police would be more than happy to see these scumbags locked up and throw away the key. Because a lot of these are repeat offenders that waste so much of their time and then get arrested only for the CPS to drop the case If it does go to court they get a pathetic sentence because the judges or the magistrates aren't allowed to jail anybody that week and they haven't got anybody to supervise unpaid work or community service orders. Not that the offenders will turn up for them anyway. Fines don't get paid and the courts haven't got the time or resources to chase them. It's anarchy, no wonder the police are demotivated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I don't think it is the police. I think the police would be more than happy to see these scumbags locked up and throw away the key. Because a lot of these are repeat offenders that waste so much of their time and then get arrested only for the CPS to drop the case I agree it's not the 'actual bobbies ion the beat type' police who do the job as set by their seniors; it's the seniors who dictate policy and priorities and are obsessed with statistics, the Police and Crime Commissioners who appear to again be obsessed with reports, studies, etc. As I understand things (may be local, or national, I don't know), shoplifting under £200 is ignored. Drugs for personal use are ignored, road tax and 'paperwork' motoring offences are largely ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 54 minutes ago, Vince Green said: There are already more than enough laws in place to control these things. These new laws will be ignored in exactly the same way as the present laws get ignored. In Britain, at present, the maximum penalty for carrying a knife. That's just carrying not even using a knife, is four years in prison. How often does that happen? I can tell you NEVER This. Enforce the laws already there, if you are out on the streets with a machete tucked down your trousers it's highly unlikely you are on your way to a gardening club. I have a machete have had it for a long time, i also have 3 scythe blades that are so sharp it makes the machete look like a butter knife, all of them are used safely and are not carried around town in a gang. Stop and search should be used more and if you have a weapon of any sort the courts should deal with them with the full force of the law, thy did it for those that were in the riots where we saw big sentences, and yet you hear time and time again that little tommy who was caught with a 2 foot zombie knife got given some community service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 hours ago, roadkill said: I believe this law comes into force next week, what actually defines a machete? I'm not an expert but, as mentioned earlier, they are not banning machetes but 'zombie-style' machetes. The government hasn't been that clear and the press even less so! This page might help, there's some examples in a doc at the end of the page: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/compensation-scheme-for-zombie-knives-and-machetes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, Windswept said: The government hasn't been that clear and the press even less so! And this is exactly the sort of confusion that brings the law into disrepute: if the law isn't clear, the police/courts will also not be able to enforce and uphold it with confidence, so it will be largely ignored. As so often, we are let down by those (I presume civil servants) who actually put Ministers 'ideas and wishes' as agreed in Cabinet into the right words for parliament to debate and vote on and when passed go for Royal Assent to bring onto the statute book as a law. I often wonder how much the laws are left a bit 'grey and loophole populated' so that the lawyers can make a lucrative living challenging them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 On 20/07/2023 at 09:39, Lloyd90 said: I agree with you John. What's really happened is a chronic underfunding of the Police, not enough officers or resources to do the job. And even less when they become prison officers ! I listened to a couple of child phycologists yesterday, they are blaming everyone and everything, except the failings of the parents of these young offenders. Perhaps the first word these kids need to learn is 'NO'. They do not learn it at home, or in school. They just seem to enjoy getting everything they ask for. Electric bikes and scooters being a classic example. I'm proud to say that my 6 Grandkids have ever had either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 11 minutes ago, Westley said: Perhaps the first word these kids need to learn is 'NO'. They do not learn it at home, or in school. They just seem to enjoy getting everything they ask for. Undoubtedly a big part of the problem. I grew up late 50s and 60s - and whilst my parents were not particularly strict, there were lines you didn't cross - or you were punished. It wasn't cruel, abusive or anything, just part of growing up as a 'good member of society' (I hope I am anyway!). I loved my parents (both dead many years now) and respected them - and thank them for bringing us (sister as well) up properly. The best start I could have had in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B686 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 (edited) Most stabbings are done with knives we all have in our kitchens. So banning machetes won’t make a lot of difference. And people will still get hold of them anyway. Same as guns I watched murder detectives Manchester last night and one of the poor girls murdered on there was killed with a blank firing scorpion machine pistol that was converted to live fire . The only thing that may possibly make people think twice about murdering someone in cold blood would be the death penalty if we had it. Edited August 20 by B686 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Hello, It is very sad our once wonderful country has become cesspit of Criminal activity , fewer police officers and Governments that will not put this as a priority rather than bleating on about it in Parliament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, It is very sad our once wonderful country has become cesspit of Criminal activity , fewer police officers and Governments that will not put this as a priority rather than bleating on about it in Parliament Maybe more money and opportunity to be made from uncertainty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a26887fc8e12ac3edb04e4/2024.06.18_Public_guidance_for_the_Zombie-Style_Knives_and_Machetes_Surrender_and_Compensation_Scheme_FINAL.pdf Reading this guidance, my Gerber Gator machete which was a gift from my son a couple of years ago, and which I use when making pigeon hides and around the woods, qualifies to be banned & should be surrendered. BY 23RD SEPTEMBER! It has a cutting edge, is over 8" long and crucially, it has a saw blade on the back of the blade which is more than 2" long and is not next to the handle. As I know other shooters who have had the police descend on them when pigeon shooting - I can imagine getting caught with this and losing SGC and FAC as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 hours ago, B686 said: Most stabbings are done with knives we all have in our kitchens. So banning machetes won’t make a lot of difference. And people will still get hold of them anyway. Same as guns I watched murder detectives Manchester last night and one of the poor girls murdered on there was killed with a blank firing scorpion machine pistol that was converted to live fire . The only thing that may possibly make people think twice about murdering someone in cold blood would be the death penalty if we had it. It would put a stop to 'repeat offending' ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Looks like they have to be handed in. What a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 4 hours ago, welsh1 said: and yet you hear time and time again that little tommy who was caught with a 2 foot zombie knife got given some community service. Which actually means nothing because a lot of community service orders quietly get dropped because there is nobody to supervise them In reality what can you get them to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 hours ago, arjimlad said: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a26887fc8e12ac3edb04e4/2024.06.18_Public_guidance_for_the_Zombie-Style_Knives_and_Machetes_Surrender_and_Compensation_Scheme_FINAL.pdf Reading this guidance, my Gerber Gator machete which was a gift from my son a couple of years ago, and which I use when making pigeon hides and around the woods, qualifies to be banned & should be surrendered. BY 23RD SEPTEMBER! It has a cutting edge, is over 8" long and crucially, it has a saw blade on the back of the blade which is more than 2" long and is not next to the handle. As I know other shooters who have had the police descend on them when pigeon shooting - I can imagine getting caught with this and losing SGC and FAC as a result. I own the following 2 machete’s … my understanding is that they fall outside of that criteria and as such are still legal. Might be worth getting one James… it seems your Gerber falls foul sadly. https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/martindale-golok-british-army-machete---the-genuine-one-78-p.asp https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/martindale-paratrooper-machete-68505-p.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: I own the following 2 machete’s … my understanding is that they fall outside of that criteria and as such are still legal. Might be worth getting one James… it seems your Gerber falls foul sadly. https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/martindale-golok-british-army-machete---the-genuine-one-78-p.asp https://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/martindale-paratrooper-machete-68505-p.asp thanks - maybe - although on closer reading, because it does not have a sharp point, but a rounded end, it may not be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 11 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Undoubtedly a big part of the problem. I grew up late 50s and 60s - and whilst my parents were not particularly strict, there were lines you didn't cross - or you were punished. It wasn't cruel, abusive or anything, just part of growing up as a 'good member of society' (I hope I am anyway!). I loved my parents (both dead many years now) and respected them - and thank them for bringing us (sister as well) up properly. The best start I could have had in life. That's it in reality.I was brought up the same and did the same with my children.None have ever been in trouble and have a terrific work ethic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 7 minutes ago, wisdom said: That's it in reality.I was brought up the same and did the same with my children.None have ever been in trouble and have a terrific work ethic. Yes this - as kids we grew up with knives - hammers - I remember my brother writing to father Christmas for an axe and he was not upset on Christmas Day - He was perhaps 8 They should ban multiple TVs and internet access points and get back to family life being family life ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 9 hours ago, arjimlad said: Reading this guidance, my Gerber Gator machete which was a gift from my son a couple of years ago, and which I use when making pigeon hides and around the woods, qualifies to be banned & should be surrendered. BY 23RD SEPTEMBER! It has a cutting edge, is over 8" long and crucially, it has a saw blade on the back of the blade which is more than 2" long and is not next to the handle. As I know other shooters who have had the police descend on them when pigeon shooting - I can imagine getting caught with this and losing SGC and FAC as a result. Grab a file and get rid of the saw teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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