March in London today

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

seeking to create their own little communities within ours, to the exclusion of their adopted country.

I see it more as "seeking to create their own little communities within along side ours, to the exclusion of their adopted country."

[ditchman]

8 hours ago, Minky said:

Some very sweeping statements here.  If 100 thousand people decided to get off their rears and travel up to London to protest and march in the rain ... AND as you state very none Palistine looking then HOW do you know who or what their motives were.  It was hideous what hamas has done but is it right what the israelis are doing by basically carpet bombing areas which are civilian areas.  Everyone has an opinion and at least 100 thousand bothered to show themselves.  Hamas were really stupid to attack soft civilian targets and not fight the military.   What did they think they were going to achieve by slaughtering innocent civilians.  What do the Israelis think that 5hey are going to achieve by killing innocent civilians.  Joe Biden might have jumped on the bandwagon to get the American Jewish vote next year but all it does is to perpetuate the global hostility. At the end of the story innocents suffer.  Ps.. years ago now I  travelled up to London to march against the Hunting ban..  does that make the tens of thousand people who bothered to put their hands in their pockets and go do it, a load of spongers....feckless....burger noshing...unemployed...english people..?

Minky ....i understand what you say...and in the past i would have to agree with you...........but it has got to the stage with me that i dont care anymore....we are seeing more and more of this...and it will get worse..........we all know what needs to be done...but who or what organisation is goingto be brave enuff to deal effectivly with this....

the more this goes on...the more my attitude will be adopted by other people......................

[Scully]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I see it more as "seeking to create their own little communities within along side ours. 

The above would be the ideal in my opinion. 
If I moved to Spain ( awful idea! ) or Italy ( much more desirable ) then I’d son become a native. It doesn’t mean you have to forget who you are or where you came from, but to blend into their lifestyle wouldn't phase me at all. 
There are many many examples of immigrants doing this in the UK, but the opposite is very unsettling in my opinion. 
I love the fact that we have adopted many examples of the lifestyle of immigrants, such as food, music and arts; and it makes for a richer and more diverse culture which enhances our lifestyles, in my opinion anyhow. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Scully

[amateur]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

...    in that there appears to be very little integration nowadays, ........

When I was at Bradford Uni in the 1970s, many areas of the inner suburbs were devoid of pale faces, apart from the small number of post-war Poles.

[countryman]

9 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

One of the best ever horror films I've watched is Salems Lot starring David Soul. Excellent!!!!

That still scares me to this day. 

[old man]

16 hours ago, ditchman said:

and they keep coming..........i have no answer as to why........i think it is a bit darker than "we are a soft touch for dolling money out"

Sadly, we seem to be a never ending funding source for the discontents of the rest of the world?

Our politicos are sponsoring changes only known for sure by a few but suspected by many?

[JKD]

14 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

.

 🤷 😇👍

Edited October 22, 2023 by JKD

[Good shot?]

What happens when a call to arms is asked for in the U.K from any terrorist group and a response of this magnitude is seen such is today's means of communications. We are importing the worlds problems with our eyes wide open.

We cannot stop store looting by gangs let alone anything more serious.

[steve_b_wales]

2 hours ago, JKD said:

Hi Steve, did you mean this to be a reply on a different thread ? 🤷

Indeed I did. I've deleted my post. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gordon Bennett!   

[JKD]

48 minutes ago, steve_b_wales said:

Indeed I did. I've deleted my post. 

Same 👍🙈

[Flashman]

I watch Pointless on BBC1.  They ask 100 members of the public assorted general knowledge questions and give them 100 seconds to provide as many answers as possible.  I am always disappointed, but no longer surprised, by how little the great unwashed know about UK history - low teens recognition of Magna Carta, 1990s/2000s cabinet ministers, 20 century UK social events, etc.   

in a similar vein, there was little UK interest about the ethic cleansing of Kurds in Turkey, Poland's flat refusal to accept asylum seekers, war in Libya or the ongoing deaths in the Mediterranean in small boats.

Then we come to Israel.  I find it remarkable that so many people claim to know every twist & turn of the Oslo Accords, settlers, the Geneva Convention, laws of war, Muslim sectarianism, etc.  Above, I bemoaned the lack of UK history education, yet so many people know everything (that Israel does wrong) about Gaza. 

Similarly, there's no general public engagement or discussion regarding Iran's assorted terrorism, Poland, Austria and others breaking EU laws on open borders or thousands dying in the Med trying to get to Italy.  However, hundreds of thousands across Western Europe rage over the IDF.  No rage about the murders, rape & torture that preceded it on 7 October, I note with no real surprise.

So, I wonder why the Palestinians garner so much attention?  I read everywhere that this isn't about the Jews and that people may criticise Israel without being anti-Semitic.  But does anybody believe that?  Look at the swivel-eyed loons who say that - hard left Labour,  I think that's all absolute rubbish.  Having considered the general public's lack of history education and the lack of empathy for all other humanitarian charity cash calls, I think this is really just Jew basing.  The surrounding Arab states couldn't give a tinker's curse about Gaza or the West Bank.  Iran is happy to arm them because it keeps the Israelis from bombing Iran's nuclear sites (and God help us all if Iran gets nuclear missiles).  Egypt closed the Gaza border years ago and won't allow their fellow Muslims out.  Jordan, which borders the West Bank, won't grant their fellow Muslims any asylum rights either.

So, when I read or hear that assorted Labour Party members, or the BBC, or trades unions officials, or all Republic of Ireland government minsters, or the SNP don't have a problem with Jews, but they care about the poor Palestinians, I call it out as lies because it flies in the face of my wider experience of current affairs generally.  

For what it's worth, I don't think Gaza's worth the cost of the ammunition.  The real war will be with Iran, supported indirectly by Russia and China.  All the protestors are simply undermining the West's ability to defend itself against those authoritarian regimes. 

But really, they don't care because for them it's Jew bashing. 

[ditchman]

A lot of the lack of understanding comes from the way history is taught in schools today.......i rememberwhen i was 12 or 13 as a result of my history lessons i had a very good understanding of the world and its various bits..................it was taught as facts and not the teachers opinion....

my knowledge was no where near perfect but....it gave me the ability to make my own desisions....

and of coarse we didnt have access to cheap drugs and X-boxes....and AI...then either................

the middle east ...now ...is what it is.........and there is B all we can do about it....all we can do is watch and react.....and if need...protect ourselves

[Gordon R]

Flashman - you have a very valid point. When Hamas slaughtered the Israelis, I don't recall thousands taking to the streets of London. Fast forward a matter of days and tens of thousands march in London in support of Hamas. They can dress it up as support for the Palestinians, but I would find that hard to accept. It appears to me that there has been anti-semitism simmering away for some time and now is the convenient time to bring it into the open.

The Labour Party was / is riddled with it.

When Amir Khan wades into the argument, you realise how bad things have become. As a World figure - his view not mine - he feels the need to speak out in support of Palestine. No mention of the Hamas atrocities. He should stick to subjects he knows something about - infidelity and wrong side of the road driving. One punch too many halfwit.

 

[ditchman]

Everything is going to be alright now ..Biden has spoken to the pope............................eerrrrrr....why ?...is he booking his slot for the pearly gates..?

[oowee]

We march for the oppressed. Atrocities from Hamas are awful but they are terrorists. What is not expected is atrocities at leisure from the IDF a state force that acts to uphold the law. Women, children and innocents slaughtered day after day. How can the world stand by? If we don't have the rule of law then we have nothing. 

Israel sit back and manage a prison for 2m people run by terrorists. The country itself riven by inequality and sub division (i would use another word but I might get banned).  It's never going to end well. There is no solution for either side in bombs, rockets and bullets. 

[Scully]

42 minutes ago, oowee said:

We march for the oppressed. Atrocities from Hamas are awful but they are terrorists. What is not expected is atrocities at leisure from the IDF a state force that acts to uphold the law. Women, children and innocents slaughtered day after day. How can the world stand by? If we don't have the rule of law then we have nothing. 

Israel sit back and manage a prison for 2m people run by terrorists. The country itself riven by inequality and sub division (i would use another word but I might get banned).  It's never going to end well. There is no solution for either side in bombs, rockets and bullets. 

Good post.
I can’t imagine what Hamas thought would be the reaction to their atrocities, but giving an imprisoned populace 48hrs to get out of Dodge isn’t exactly what I expected. 

We did it in Iraq ( when it should have been Saudi ) but imagine us doing that in N.Ireland. 🤷‍♂️

Anyhow, saying all that I have no sympathy for any of them; their 2nd century mindset is a default setting which is indoctrinated from birth, and no amount of education or intelligence can counteract that.

You can take some people out of the Middle Ages, but you can’t take the Middle Ages out of some people. 

[London Best]

A thousand years ago Richard the Lionheart failed to sort a similar problem.

[Penelope]

On 21/10/2023 at 19:35, ditchman said:

reported ...100,000 pro-palistine marchers in London today....and that is just the ones that got there to show their support............i am shocked.....are they pro-Hamas or pro Palistine  ?

no wonder the Israeli contingent in London are worried

are we entering a new stage in the Palistine/israeli problem that is going to be played out on the sacred soil of old England this sceptered isle in a silver sea......

i feel very uncomfortable about the whole issue in the UK............are we letting in "sleepers" that will stir this conflict........

christ what a mess

Have you seen the video footage of the Central Line tube driver shouting, "Free" over the train's PA system, so all those going to the march could shout back "Palestine".

That should be a sacking offence, but Transport For London are saying that they don't know who was driving the train. JOKE!!!

[semi-auto]

Of course they know who the driver was, but to admit this would mean they have to take action,

and this would potentially lead to further strikes.

 

[Penelope]

On 21/10/2023 at 21:23, Scully said:

They’re pro-Palestine, not pro-Hamas. 

A lot of the useful idiots don't realise it's pretty much one in the same.

[Rem260]

15 hours ago, oowee said:

We march for the oppressed. Atrocities from Hamas are awful but they are terrorists. What is not expected is atrocities at leisure from the IDF a state force that acts to uphold the law. Women, children and innocents slaughtered day after day. How can the world stand by? If we don't have the rule of law then we have nothing. 

Israel sit back and manage a prison for 2m people run by terrorists. The country itself riven by inequality and sub division (i would use another word but I might get banned).  It's never going to end well. There is no solution for either side in bombs, rockets and bullets. 

Gaza run by a government who's stated aim is the destruction of the Jewish state.

How do you suggest Israel defends its self from these terrorists ?

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, Penelope said:

A lot of the useful idiots don't realise it's pretty much one and the same.

Is it? 

[Penelope]

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

Is it? 

Yes, because I doubt many know the difference.

[Dave-G]

As with Russia and Ukraine I have no support for either side. To me its just persistent reciprocal payback with deep seated hatred of the other side(s) I put the (S) there because to my limited understanding there are more than two sides in that battle.

The west, and our government, currently supports Israel but if what I see of the lefts support for Palestine that may change come the next election.