JohnfromUK Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 The Speaker (who is in effect the 'Chairman' of Parliament') is now making decisions (at the request of one party leader which are in conflict with normal Parliamentary conventions and Parliamentary clerks advice) on what Parliament debates apparently based on threats to MPs (and their staff, constituency offices etc.) by minority pressure groups. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/22/hoyle-says-gaza-debate-decision-was-motivated-by-threats-against-mps In effect therefore we are being Governed by threats from minority pressure groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Well, There maybe improvements then. The whole lot are a croc, always have been always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: The Speaker (who is in effect the 'Chairman' of Parliament') is now making decisions (at the request of one party leader which are in conflict with normal Parliamentary conventions and Parliamentary clerks advice) on what Parliament debates apparently based on threats to MPs (and their staff, constituency offices etc.) by minority pressure groups. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/22/hoyle-says-gaza-debate-decision-was-motivated-by-threats-against-mps In effect therefore we are being Governed by threats from minority pressure groups. which wouldn't have happened if the speaker had been an ex conservative MP but because he's more left wing than Ryan Giggs he "really" made "that" decision "under pressure" to save Starmers Liebour from tearing itself apart. what has the fact that the terrorists that are Hamas murdered thousands of innocent Isreali's and are now getting a rightly deserved kicking got to do with us? AND,more importantly who honestly thinks that the Isreali's are going to alter their modus operandi on the say say of the British or any other nations' government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 It makes me laugh when you see these politicians and protesters thinking that this country can have a say and other countries listen and act upon it, our governments have only been concerned about green and woke issues, for years, we have gone from a serious player in the world to a country that nobody takes seriously anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 16 minutes ago, countryman said: concerned about green and woke issues, Happening across the whole Anglosphere, as there lies the greatest opportunity for control of actions, words and thought. Edited February 23 by Penelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 It's a reflection of the culmination of democracy where we start to tie ourselves in knots and unable to make meaningful change. We start to prefer extreme politics throwing out institutions and the rule of law in an effort to make change. Next comes autocracy as the likes of Trump and other extremists throw democracy out to replace it with autocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, oowee said: It's a reflection of the culmination of democracy where we start to tie ourselves in knots and unable to make meaningful change. We start to prefer extreme politics throwing out institutions and the rule of law in an effort to make change. Next comes autocracy as the likes of Trump and other extremists throw democracy out to replace it with autocracy. The extremists are all on your left, what is happening is a reaction the absurd intersectional, identity politics espoused by the left across the western world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 No surprise there they are all rotten to the core , Its a embarrassment to see them squabbling like kids and we pay them for doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 It's pure Westminster bubble, completely irrelevant to the real world. Meanwhile the debate on excess deaths was apparently poorly attended. Interestingly one Sue Gray was seen hanging round with Starmer on the night in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 There is no room for extremism in any shape or form. However, what is happening is the Extreme Left are being normalized, which in effect is making your ordinary law abiding centrist people extreme right in the eyes of the "new normal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 ive been watching this thing about "just stop hoyle" thing.....and i really cant fathom it out.....i always thought Hoyle was a decent straight up person... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 17 minutes ago, ditchman said: ive been watching this thing about "just stop hoyle" thing.....and i really cant fathom it out.....i always thought Hoyle was a decent straight up person... He is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, ditchman said: ive been watching this thing about "just stop hoyle" thing.....and i really cant fathom it out.....i always thought Hoyle was a decent straight up person... Compared to his predecessor - he has been good. I would agree he has overall behaved 'decently'. However, the present 'goings on' are as a result him making a serious mistake (in my view anyway) in which he; In effect gave an advantage to Keir Starmer by acceding to his demands (we are told against the advice by the Parliamentary clerks - who advise him on the rules and traditions of Parliament). This was a great help to Starmer because it avoided a large rebellion against his leadership because many (100 or so) of his MPs had threatened to support an SNP motion against their leaders directions, and now voted for Starmers amendment instead. In effect gave in to the bullying tactics of those groups threatening violence and harm to MPs over the Israel/Palestine war by showing that Parliament will yield to pressure/threats/violence made against MPs and their constituency offices, property and even family members. When these pressure groups realise that by making threats against MPs their staff/family they have achieved a change whet happens in Parliament - it seems to me likely that they will use that in the future and more than just this once. The gates are opened and suddenly Parliament's proceedings are open to being changed by 'blackmail' by threatening it's members and the Speaker making changes to proceedings due to that blackmail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) There is no such thing as democracy, there never has been 22 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: In effect gave an advantage to Keir Starmer by acceding to his demands (we are told against the advice by the Parliamentary clerks - who advise him on the rules and traditions of Parliament). This was a great help to Starmer because it avoided a large rebellion against his leadership because many (100 or so) of his MPs had threatened to support an SNP motion against their leaders directions Starmer should never have got himself in that position in the first place. It shows a lack of political judgement. very clumsy handling of the situation. Hoyle was wrong to try and bail Starmer out Edited February 23 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 47 minutes ago, discobob said: There is no room for extremism in any shape or form. However, what is happening is the Extreme Left are being normalized, which in effect is making your ordinary law abiding centrist people extreme right in the eyes of the "new normal" The was a great diagram meme that showed this, might have originated from Elon Musk (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 Just now, Vince Green said: It shows a lack of political judgement. very clumsy handling of the situation That's Starmer all over. Remember over the whole Brexit time he was Corbyn's right hand man, nodding excitedly to Corbyn's every word on the front bench. Now he's sacked Corbyn. No principles, short term opportunist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, countryman said: It makes me laugh when you see these politicians and protesters thinking that this country can have a say and other countries listen and act upon it, our governments have only been concerned about green and woke issues, for years, we have gone from a serious player in the world to a country that nobody takes seriously anymore. Yep, the source of constant amusement and ridicule world wide? 3 hours ago, Penelope said: Happening across the whole Anglosphere, as there lies the greatest opportunity for control of actions, words and thought. 👍 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: Compared to his predecessor - he has been good. I would agree he has overall behaved 'decently'. However, the present 'goings on' are as a result him making a serious mistake (in my view anyway) in which he; In effect gave an advantage to Keir Starmer by acceding to his demands (we are told against the advice by the Parliamentary clerks - who advise him on the rules and traditions of Parliament). This was a great help to Starmer because it avoided a large rebellion against his leadership because many (100 or so) of his MPs had threatened to support an SNP motion against their leaders directions, and now voted for Starmers amendment instead. In effect gave in to the bullying tactics of those groups threatening violence and harm to MPs over the Israel/Palestine war by showing that Parliament will yield to pressure/threats/violence made against MPs and their constituency offices, property and even family members. When these pressure groups realise that by making threats against MPs their staff/family they have achieved a change whet happens in Parliament - it seems to me likely that they will use that in the future and more than just this once. The gates are opened and suddenly Parliament's proceedings are open to being changed by 'blackmail' by threatening it's members and the Speaker making changes to proceedings due to that blackmail. He must go surely to preserve what little we still have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, old man said: He must go surely to preserve what little we still have? Not sure who we get instead? I would not want another Bercow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said: Not sure who we get instead? I would not want another Bercow. Agreed, things seem to have skewed since Betty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) There is a lot of sense being said on this thread, sadly it will mean nothing, unless we stop voting for more of the same. Edited February 23 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 All this shows is what a shambles our political system is and what a shambles this once Great country has become. We need a complete change, get rid of Labour and the Cons, they're virtually a uni party on most issues anyway, we need some common sense leadership back at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 25 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: All this shows is what a shambles our political system is and what a shambles this once Great country has become. We need a complete change, get rid of Labour and the Cons, they're virtually a uni party on most issues anyway, we need some common sense leadership back at the helm. They will take some shifting, standard trough equipment now a diving bell to ensure the dregs are accessible. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 18 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: All this shows is what a shambles our political system is and what a shambles this once Great country has become. We need a complete change, get rid of Labour and the Cons, they're virtually a uni party on most issues anyway, we need some common sense leadership back at the helm. Yes folks only choice is which lot are the best of a bad bunch but who has the metal to sort this country out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 On 23/02/2024 at 11:16, JohnfromUK said: Compared to his predecessor - he has been good. I would agree he has overall behaved 'decently'. However, the present 'goings on' are as a result him making a serious mistake (in my view anyway) in which he; In effect gave an advantage to Keir Starmer by acceding to his demands (we are told against the advice by the Parliamentary clerks - who advise him on the rules and traditions of Parliament). This was a great help to Starmer because it avoided a large rebellion against his leadership because many (100 or so) of his MPs had threatened to support an SNP motion against their leaders directions, and now voted for Starmers amendment instead. In effect gave in to the bullying tactics of those groups threatening violence and harm to MPs over the Israel/Palestine war by showing that Parliament will yield to pressure/threats/violence made against MPs and their constituency offices, property and even family members. I agree with your post entirely, in particular that Parliament has and now will yield to threats in future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Hello, looks to me like Khan and his followers keep using the You do not like Muslims red card🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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