The long road back

[oowee]

Kemi Badenoch announces her bid to become Tory leader. A return to first principles including a focus on sovereignty and a revived confidence in capitalism. 

Kemi is impressive but surely the first principles for a Conservative liberty democracy and the rule of law. 

Where do they start to reformulate the party? It must surely be a leader that can pull together first and foremost what the party is about. 

[ditchman]

it will be ....(if ever).....decades before the party reverts to a true conservertism...........to much woke...in fighting...and intransigence/hate from the uncivil service...........

[Gordon R]

Labour pulled back from oblivion in five years, so it is possible. It will be easier for the Tories when it becomes apparent that the Labour money tree has perished. 

Tom Tugendhat would be my choice.

PS - if anyone discovers what the first principles of the Labour party are, please let me know. It won't be the rule of law. 🙂

[shaun4860]

I was disappointed to hear Suella Bravaman wasn’t standing although her reasons ring true.

Whilst she has the amount of support to enter the race, she says too many MP’s disagree with her methods.

I think she would have been great at the job 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Labour pulled back from oblivion in five years, so it is possible. It will be easier for the Tories when it becomes apparent that the Labour money tree has perished. 

Tom Tugendhat would be my choice.

PS - if anyone discovers what the first principles of the Labour party are, please let me know. It won't be the rule of law. 🙂

Like Ditchy writes: the uncivil service is never going to support the Tories.

[oowee]

It is possible in five years. I think the difficulty is positioning. if Labour hold the centre ground and with Reform off to the right it makes distinctive messaging difficult.

Labour not performing will likely not be enough to bring the Tories back with the split with Reform. The same issue labour has faced with other parties draining support. 

I can't see a comeback without a withering of Reform or a merger. That would take at least one more defeat?

As for labour 'money tree', the obvious hole filler would be reversal of the last two unfunded ni giveaways. They won't do that. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

Kemi Badenoch announces her bid to become Tory leader. A return to first principles including a focus on sovereignty and a revived confidence in capitalism. 

Kemi is impressive but surely the first principles for a Conservative liberty democracy and the rule of law. 

Where do they start to reformulate the party? It must surely be a leader that can pull together first and foremost what the party is about. 

Well, they have almost five years to get things sorted.

[johnphilip]

10 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

I was disappointed to hear Suella Bravaman wasn’t standing although her reasons ring true.

Whilst she has the amount of support to enter the race, she says too many MP’s disagree with her methods.

I think she would have been great at the job 

Shaun I think she is still sitting  on the fence , to join reform . Think others are waiting to see how things go .

[Newbie to this]

26 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Shaun I think she is still sitting  on the fence , to join reform . Think others are waiting to see how things go .

Then when/if she defects, there should.be a by-election, to see if her constituents still want her as a Reform MP. Same goes for anyone else deciding to change colours.

She was voted in as a Conservative.

Edited July 29 by Newbie to this

[enfieldspares]

If Suella Braverman was ever the answer to its problems of its self inflicted wound of making itself recently unelectable then God help the Conservative Party. The same with Priti Patel. When you look at all the past strong women in British politics...Thatcher, Barbara Castle...then these two are little more than a Pound Shop pastiche on that. The same as May and Truss. I don't think the sensible people in the Tory Party will be too keen to have a further women leader who like those two others will quickly show herself to be out of her depth. I think Cleverly will win. Which shows that despite its claims to be the party for all that in fact it is the Tories with the first Jew, the first woman, the first Asian who actually have had a diversity of leaders. Labour? Their leaders who actually fought and won a General Election? Wilson, Blair, Starmer? White, widdle aged and ultimately (even if they didn't start off there) middle class, men.

Edited July 29 by enfieldspares

[oldypigeonpopper]

5 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

If Suella Braverman was ever the answer to its problems of its self inflicted wound of making itself recently unelectable then God help the Conservative Party. The same with Priti Patel. When you look at all the past strong women in British politics...Thatcher, Barbara Castle...then these two are little more than a Pound Shop pastiche on that. The same as May and Truss. I don't think the sensible people in the Tory Party will be too keen to have a further women leader who like those two others will quickly show herself to be out of her depth. I think Cleverly will win. Which shows that despite its claims to be the party for all that in fact it is the Tories with the first Jew, the first woman, the first Asian who actually have had a diversity of leaders. Labour? Wilson, Blair, Starmer? White, widdle aged and ultimately (even if they didn't start off there) middle class, men.

Hello, Good Post👍

[Westward]

5 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

 Labour? Their leaders who actually fought and won a General Election? Wilson, Blair, Starmer? White, widdle aged and ultimately (even if they didn't start off there) middle class, men.

They were all very middle class. Friends of mine in the 60s were at a posh public school with Giles Wilson, I believe Blair went to public school and getting to be a barrister like Starmer costs a great deal of money, consequently almost all barristers hail from well heeled families.

Very, very few politicians have anything more than the vaguest awareness of life for working people. If you do well through your own efforts like one of my sons, the tax burden is already eye watering and Reeves will only make it worse. Why? Because the creed of envy that pervades Labour voters will demand it.

The trouble with capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings and the trouble with socialism is the equal sharing of the misery!

[enfieldspares]

From 3:10 onwards. Obviously fictionalised but pretty much on the target.

Which, yes, as soon as the cameras turned off out came the whisky and the cigars. Mt father used to fish at Rowsley on the Peacock Hotel water, George Brown, Foreign Secretary and Wilson's deputy (who represented Belper)( used to stay there. He'd sit in the public lounge and order "a large pot of tea". Said large pot of tea would arrive with its accompanying cup and saucer and jug of milk. George Brown would pour out his cup of tea. Except there was no milk in the milk jug and what was in the tea pot was not tea but neat brandy. 

Edited July 29 by enfieldspares

[oowee]

21 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

If Suella Braverman was ever the answer to its problems of its self inflicted wound of making itself recently unelectable then God help the Conservative Party. The same with Priti Patel. When you look at all the past strong women in British politics...Thatcher, Barbara Castle...then these two are little more than a Pound Shop pastiche on that. The same as May and Truss. I don't think the sensible people in the Tory Party will be too keen to have a further women leader who like those two others will quickly show herself to be out of her depth. I think Cleverly will win. Which shows that despite its claims to be the party for all that in fact it is the Tories with the first Jew, the first woman, the first Asian who actually have had a diversity of leaders. Labour? Their leaders who actually fought and won a General Election? Wilson, Blair, Starmer? White, widdle aged and ultimately (even if they didn't start off there) middle class, men.

Good post. I would though rate May, given the right govt I think she would prove her worth. Something of a technocrat. She had picked up the Gauntlet of Brexit a process that simply has no winners. 

[Rewulf]

Summed up.

 

[Raja Clavata]

33 minutes ago, oowee said:

Good post. I would though rate May, given the right govt I think she would prove her worth. Something of a technocrat. She had picked up the Gauntlet of Brexit a process that simply has no winners. 

I agree.

I think Cleverly would be a really bad choice, under pressure he has repeatedly lacked dynamic thought or at least the coherent articulation of thought. Ironic surname to boot.

[Penelope]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Summed up.

 

Watched some of his content before. 👍

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think Cleverly would be a really bad choice, under pressure he has repeatedly lacked dynamic thought or at least the coherent articulation of thought

You could apply that to the entire labour cabinet though 🤣

[janner]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Summed up.

 

Jeez,

What a load of twaddle,

Smug liberal elitist,

More like devout Anglican with centerist views and a long standing critic of the e.u and a believer in honesty in office who has not shirked in hold public figures to account when they cheat and lie.

These type of cheap videos are just the modern version of the dirty mac wearing chaps once seen at speakers corner selling their little pamphflets at 6d a time,

 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, janner said:

These type of cheap videos are just the modern version of the dirty mac wearing chaps once seen at speakers corner selling their little pamphflets at 6d a time

Have you been to speakers corner lately ?

It's a 'different' kind of clientele these days 🤣

[janner]

Last sunday,

Religion and flat earthers now,

The old skool folk with a bee in their bonnet about some niche cause are on the internet posting videos nowadays,

The easily led dont have to leave their settee to get hooked on nonsense nowadays,

 

[johnphilip]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Have you been to speakers corner lately ?

It's a 'different' kind of clientele these days 🤣

The one called,  think it's " big nose " is quite entertaining 😀

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, janner said:

The easily led dont have to leave their settee to get hooked on nonsense nowadays

Yes I can see that 

[udderlyoffroad]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

I would though rate May, given the right govt I think she would prove her worth. Something of a technocrat.

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I agree.

May a good PM?   It’s a point of view I suppose.  IMO, we still don’t know the cost of the damage May did to the economy – by enacting net zero into law.

Never mind her absolutely useless BRINO deal (subsequently rubber stamped by BoJo).  She even 'tolerated' Clegg et al running around undermining her team’s own negotiating position, talking to Barnier.

Sidenote: how one can be against Brexit because of its alleged untold, uncosted economic damage, but at the same time support net zero, is something I just can’t get my head round.

4 hours ago, janner said:

What a load of twaddle,

Smug liberal elitist,

More like devout Anglican with centerist views and a long standing critic of the e.u and a believer in honesty in office who has not shirked in hold public figures to account when they cheat and lie.

Do come off it; Hislop is very much the establishment, HIGNFY stopped being satire circa 2012 and is long since past its sell by date.  If ever there was a modern day court jester, Hislop is it.

As for Private Eye, yes it did highlight the worst excesses of the EU, as well as the UK blo….ahh civil service falling over itself to enact, gold-plate and go further than, every EU directive ever, actively making life in the UK worse and ever more restrictive. Whilst all other member states ignored the same directives and got a free pass.  So, yes, they did hold the establishment to account, to their dedicated readership of presumably 3 people, for all the good it did.

Naturally, post Brexit vote, Hislop went very quiet on his own magazine's findings on the EU....

Edited July 30 by udderlyoffroad

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

Sidenote: how one can be against Brexit because of its alleged untold, uncosted economic damage, but at the same time support net zero, is something I just can’t get my head round.

 

That's a good point. Uncosted and the impacts being huge and all done without a referendum. The public can't be blamed for the choice either.

At least net zero has an upside.