This Govt'

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, ditchman said:

ok...reform dont have enough talent........but to fix this country DONT NEED TALENT.......it needs brutal desisions and the guts and balls todo the right thing....

It needs a civil service that does what it is told to and a courts/legal system that operates quickly and efficiently. 

Whilst the legal system is and should remain independent of Gov't, the laws which it upholds are in many cases a mish/mash of old laws that don't address current issues, don't cover many current trends (e.g. internet/social media involvement in current society) and unwarranted European Court matters 'rolled down' onto us and never revoked when we left the EU.

The Gov't (of whatever colour) needs to see clearly where the laws work and where they don't - and this is not possible where some cases take years to come to court and others are 'forced through' in days (a recent Labour initiative).  Once the wood can be seen for the trees, the laws can be tailored better to suit modern life, placed before Parliament, debated and put into the statute book.

Then a number of legal 'nonsenses' need to be corrected - notably in my view sentences (if a judge gives X years, that is what should be served, not out in less than half that).  Sentences need to reflect the impact of the crime on society, and address protecting the public.  For example, people who are clearly intent on attacking the countries population such as terrorists, bombers, knife attackers need to be locked away or 'out' for as long as they represent a danger.  Similarly, people who disrupt/cost a large number of innocent public by blocking roads, damaging museum collections, attacking private property should both be placed where thay can't do such damage and have their assets stripped to pay for the damage and disruption.

[clangerman]

think anyone gullible to vote full stop should fess up! lol 

[Penelope]

Just now, clangerman said:

think anyone gullible to vote full stop should fess up! lol 

So how do you affect change?

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Alot can happen in 5 years. Will it be past the point of no return by 2029

This.
Although I dont see labour lasting a full term, there is a possibility that increased unrest, and more draconian laws to counter it, we could end up with a quasi police state and big brother style free speech crushing laws bought in.
If there is a general election in 2029, it will be fought on the ground that labour have prepared, with votes given to 16 year olds and fresh migrants, with any kind of radical opposition party, forced to fight on unequal terms.
If this sounds outlandish, think about what a huge labour majority means when said draconian laws are put before the house.

[clangerman]

Just now, Penelope said:

So how do you affect change?

as the system is geared to only deliver self serving rats we are beyond change now all you can do is hope for revolt! 

[Raja Clavata]

I’ve never voted Labour so abstained the last couple times but went back to voting Tory this time.

I’m not convinced things are as bad as some would suggest with the new government just yet but it’s still early days. 

I really do think it’s unfortunate that so many reform votes contributed to the Labour majority but everyone knows the rules and presumably knew what they were doing.

A Reform government today would be a disaster and make Labour look like legends.

If Reform can credibly position as a radical right party, dropping the extreme right elements and attracting more right leaning Conservative MPs then they stand a chance in the future.

It’s going to be interesting to see how the Tories develop, I personally don’t feel any of the leadership candidates are particularly inspiring. Then of course there’s Boris waiting in the background.

 

[Penelope]

13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

as the system is geared to only deliver self serving rats we are beyond change now all you can do is hope for revolt! 

Agreed, but how do you affect change if not via voting.

Edited August 22 by Penelope

[clangerman]

Just now, Penelope said:

Agrred, but how do you affect change if not via voting.

revolution! not that anyone in this country has the minerals for it but we can live in hope lol 

[Penelope]

Freedom of movement to be made easier for EU nationals into the UK; back in via the back door  and definately given it.........

[ditchman]

55 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This.
Although I dont see labour lasting a full term, there is a possibility that increased unrest, and more draconian laws to counter it, we could end up with a quasi police state and big brother style free speech crushing laws bought in.
If there is a general election in 2029, it will be fought on the ground that labour have prepared, with votes given to 16 year olds and fresh migrants, with any kind of radical opposition party, forced to fight on unequal terms.
If this sounds outlandish, think about what a huge labour majority means when said draconian laws are put before the house.

 

48 minutes ago, clangerman said:

revolution! not that anyone in this country has the minerals for it but we can live in hope lol 

 

54 minutes ago, clangerman said:

as the system is geared to only deliver self serving rats we are beyond change now all you can do is hope for revolt! 

yup .........all these things..........things are going to get alot worse.......labour is somehow going to rape everyones savings...to pay for the union/socialist/communist....appeasing

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Then of course there’s Boris waiting in the background.

Although Boris is good at being a politician, and you can read between the lines at what I mean there, his time has passed..
Career politicos are not what this country needs right now, it needs someone grounded in reality, with principles, who has the balls to grab the system by the throat, and force it to perform as it should.
We are a wealthy country, with a history of success despite our size, its about time we stopped people of ALL ilks rinsing us dry.

[yickdaz]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Although Boris is good at being a politician, and you can read between the lines at what I mean there, his time has passed..
Career politicos are not what this country needs right now, it needs someone grounded in reality, with principles, who has the balls to grab the system by the throat, and force it to perform as it should.
We are a wealthy country, with a history of success despite our size, its about time we stopped people of ALL ilks rinsing us dry.

Lee Anderson  would be a good choice shoots from the hip no nonsense kind of guy with common sense 

Edited August 22 by yickdaz

[Jega]

 I think we have to accept that we are going to have a Labour administration for many many years to come.

The simple facts are that Starmer and co have absolutely no interest in halting immigration both legal and otherwise , these are guaranteed votes for Labour in the future .

As for "smashing " the gangs that run the rubber boat trade in Europe ,someone needs to remind him we have absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever in Europe let alone the fact that they are more then happy to send them over to us . 

Just imagine the Italians ,French etc . " It's o.k. Mr Starmer we will keep them all here in our own country and stop them coming to the U.K. "

[old man]

6 hours ago, Penelope said:

So how do you affect change?

Not sure that's possible here, ping pong, in, out?

A lovely little  earner and life?

 

[shaun4860]

11 hours ago, clangerman said:

think anyone gullible to vote full stop should fess up! lol 

Just to clarify, I have voted in every election since I was old enough to 

[Weihrauch17]

5 hours ago, Jega said:

 I think we have to accept that we are going to have a Labour administration for many many years to come.

The simple facts are that Starmer and co have absolutely no interest in halting immigration both legal and otherwise , these are guaranteed votes for Labour in the future .

As for "smashing " the gangs that run the rubber boat trade in Europe ,someone needs to remind him we have absolutely no jurisdiction whatsoever in Europe let alone the fact that they are more then happy to send them over to us . 

Just imagine the Italians ,French etc . " It's o.k. Mr Starmer we will keep them all here in our own country and stop them coming to the U.K. "

Labour will be out before 5 years but not before they have absolutely trashed the country.

[amateur]

2 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Labour will be out before 5 years but not before they have absolutely trashed the country.

As they always have done.

[12gauge82]

14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is a fact that few Gov't of any colour have managed more than 3 consecutive terms of office.

It is my view that Labour didn't actively 'win' by offering a realistic prospect of 'better Gov't'.  Labour came out with the most seats by default because the abysmal performance by the former Tory Gov't left people wanting change.

It's not very helpful now to speculate what went wrong but a few personal 'takes';

• David Cameron was on the losing side from the EU referendum.  He resigned, rightly in my view as he couldn't credibly lead a Gov't carrying out what he had campaigned against.  Was aware of the immigration issues building, but set targets and little more.
• Teresa May was weak and was very visibly weak.  I quote "no deal is better than a bad deal".  So she arranges a 'deal' widely seen as bad and tries (unsuccessfully) to get it passed.  Hopelessly weak.  Ignored the growing immigration issues building.
• Boris Johnson won a good majority, but was derailed by Covid and Ukraine.  He was charismatic and a good speaker, but otherwise chaotic, disorganised, had no concept of truth, relied on poor and divisive advisers (Cummings etc) and listened to poor advice (net zero, etc.).  Despite claiming to "Get Brexit done" he didn't really and left an unfinished mess - especially re NI and the Irish border.  Also ignored the growing immigration issues building.
• Liz Truss was just plain 'hopeless'.  Completely out of her depth and did a huge amount of reputational damage.  Was not in place long enough to do any good even had she been on track to - which I doubt.
• Rishi Sunak inherited a pretty hopeless situation to be fair.  Huge debt from Covid matters (in which he had a major role in creating that debt), energy price crisis from external (Ukraine/world) issues, the immigration issues at boiling point.  He also (controversial and my view) inherited a civil service Gov't machine that doesn't function in terms of doing what ministers want, and half of whom aren't really at work at all.  A situation where the unions can see that they will get a Labour gov't they can manipulate for their own gains IF they can damage the Tories enough (by various long strikes (Doctors, Nurses, Train Drivers etc) so that they are not electable.  Several union leaders had openly talked about aiming to bring the Gov't down.  There was a plan for the immigration crisis, - but it was never really allowed to get 'off the ground' as dubious legal challenges and the machinery of Gov't blocked it continually.  Maybe it would have 'sort of worked'?  They were beginning to see the light a bit on the "net zero" farce.

We now have a Labour administration.  The union barons are being rewarded with their demands being largely met (arguably funded by theft from the better off pensioners most of whom do not support Labour at all, so no votes to be lost there).  We have already had the worst civil unrest for some time.  There appears to be no plan for the immigration crisis.  There is no doubt that taxes will increase still further, but it seems likely that the proceed will go to the pockets of the powerful unions members, not the needy and public services.

Just personal views.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I think the performance of the leaders you mentioned was far worse in many ways, some examples. 

Cameron, old call me Dave! We're all in it together! With his vision of 'big society' held a referendum he had no intention of ever delivering on, made no preparations for leave winning and rather than stepping down, more threw his toys from the pram leaving the uk in an awful position. 

Theresa May, a staunch remainder attempted to sabotage Brexit, sold Northern Ireland up the river. 

Boris, stabbed in the back. 

Liz Truss, stabbed in the back and ousted from government by the financial sector purposefully crashing the economy (remind me who runs the country again?) 

Rishi Sunak, inserted into power by the same bunch in the tories who tucked Boris and Liz up, despite Rishi being guilty of the same offence of covid breaches Boris was ousted for. To be fair to Rishi, I think he did his best and was actually an honourable individual with fairly sound principles, but the country had, had enough of the Conservatives by then. 

I'll never vote Conservative again, not without root and branch change, they are the party of making promises they have no intention of keeping and play the eloctorate as fools. 

[Newbie to this]

7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

they are the party of making promises they have no intention of keeping and play the eloctorate as fools. 

In that, they are far from being alone.

[ditchman]

7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I think the performance of the leaders you mentioned was far worse in many ways, some examples. 

Cameron, old call me Dave! We're all in it together! With his vision of 'big society' held a referendum he had no intention of ever delivering on, made no preparations for leave winning and rather than stepping down, more threw his toys from the pram leaving the uk in an awful position. 

Theresa May, a staunch remainder attempted to sabotage Brexit, sold Northern Ireland up the river. 

Boris, stabbed in the back. 

Liz Truss, stabbed in the back and ousted from government by the financial sector purposefully crashing the economy (remind me who runs the country again?) 

Rishi Sunak, inserted into power by the same bunch in the tories who tucked Boris and Liz up, despite Rishi being guilty of the same offence of covid breaches Boris was ousted for. To be fair to Rishi, I think he did his best and was actually an honourable individual with fairly sound principles, but the country had, had enough of the Conservatives by then. 

I'll never vote Conservative again, not without root and branch change, they are the party of making promises they have no intention of keeping and play the eloctorate as fools. 

you are quite right ...all the party leaders we have had over the years have been diabolicle.....lieing parasitic ...weak...useless...arrogant...decietful..

[oldypigeonpopper]

8 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Labour will be out before 5 years but not before they have absolutely trashed the country.

Good post 👍

[dead eye alan]

21 minutes ago, ditchman said:

you are quite right ...all the party leaders we have had over the years have been diabolicle.....lieing parasitic ...weak...useless...arrogant...decietful..

Ho come on Simon you can do better than that, say what you realy think.

[12gauge82]

59 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

In that, they are far from being alone.

Completely agreed, which is in part why the Tories have got away with it for years, they know there was no alternative, either vote for them and their lies, or Labour. 

This is why we need change and fresh parties in our electoral system, to ensure there are other options, it would prevent party's like the Cons from making all the promises, but having no intention of carrying anything out and doing the opposite when getting into power. 

[Doormat]

I think it’s a given that most of London, Leicester, Bradford etc etc voted them in, they all have something in common…do I need to spell it out???

it was obvious to a idiot this would happen. Reform didn’t even have a candidate in my city!! Hence everyone I know didn’t vote, they wouldn’t vote Tory but neither would they vote labour, but those cities above clearly did. Reform needs to get their act together and be visible in every city ready for the next election.

Like you lot I have thoughts of utter disbelief same as I had in 97 when Blair got in. Difference was Blair was a vain egomaniacal narcissist, Keir is far far worse he fully intends to replace the British public with migrants and Muslims. 
 

I admit I am now so very very racist, never used to be - truthfully  but I am now and it’s this and previous governments fault. I cannot hide my anger or revulsion towards these invaders, they are not wanted or welcomed.

I flatly refuse to even acknowledge their presence. Despise them, but despise Starmer much much more. What a traitor!!

[Zoli 12 guage]

3 minutes ago, Doormat said:

I think it’s a given that most of London, Leicester, Bradford etc etc voted them in, they all have something in common…do I need to spell it out???

it was obvious to a idiot this would happen. Reform didn’t even have a candidate in my city!! Hence everyone I know didn’t vote, they wouldn’t vote Tory but neither would they vote labour, but those cities above clearly did. Reform needs to get their act together and be visible in every city ready for the next election.

Like you lot I have thoughts of utter disbelief same as I had in 97 when Blair got in. Difference was Blair was a vain egomaniacal narcissist, Keir is far far worse he fully intends to replace the British public with migrants and Muslims. 
 

I admit I am now so very very racist, never used to be - truthfully  but I am now and it’s this and previous governments fault. I cannot hide my anger or revulsion towards these invaders, they are not wanted or welcomed.

I flatly refuse to even acknowledge their presence. Despise them, but despise Starmer much much more. What a traitor!!

in answer to one of your points, Reform didn't have enough time to prepare for this election (only 6 weeks notice) so couldn't get the number of candidates in place that they would no doubt have liked.

can't really argue with the rest of it either.