marsh man Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 Unless I have missed it but I am a bit surprised nobody have mentioned the brutality this poor young girl suffered in her very short life inflicted by her parents who should had been protecting her , how many times have we heard that this must never happen again and yes it will happen again , not so much as if more like when ? , where were the people who should have seen the signs that she was in serious trouble , I am a fairly hard person but this have sickened me no end and no sentence they get will come anywhere near what those sick people deserve . My apologies if this have already been put forward on the forum . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 I haven’t mentioned it because I’m simply outraged by it and the futile reactions and same old same old sound bite platitudes of politicians. The time to get serious about murderous scum such as those responsible for such crimes has long passed. No doubt lessons will be learned….yet again, and then learned again next time, and the next time, and the time after that etc etc etc etc. Kids are murdered on a daily basis in this country, more often than not by other kids. It’s time to wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 MM the father and stepmother took the poor girl out of school for home tuterage to hide her from the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 Social services were informed by her teacher but dropped the investigation when they found she had been removed from her school for home tutoring. Am I alone in thinking that this act would have made me more determined to investigate? Whoever made that decision should be charged with dereliction of duty leading to manslaughter, yet another incident of our Social Services costing the tax payer nearly 13 billion and doing sweet FA. Heads need to roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted December 12 Author Report Share Posted December 12 13 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: MM the father and stepmother took the poor girl out of school for home tuterage to hide her from the authorities. I know Dave , but according to reports the signs she was being harmed was when she was at school and the teachers reported it to the social services , they didn't think it was worth taken any action and asked the teachers to keep an eye on the poor girl , this might have been the time when she was taken out of school , with no follow up her life was all but over . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 just choose not to talk about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 11 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Social services were informed by her teacher but dropped the investigation when they found she had been removed from her school for home tutoring. Am I alone in thinking that this act would have made me more determined to investigate? Whoever made that decision should be charged with dereliction of duty leading to manslaughter, yet another incident of our Social Services costing the tax payer nearly 13 billion and doing sweet FA. Heads need to roll. my thoughts exactly.....put in the too difficult (for obvious reasons) file and forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 (edited) One of 400 + each year? For whatever reason and despite the investigations and enquiries, falling between the cracks continues. Edited December 12 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 Polish mother. British Pakistani father. The Court gave custody to the father in preference to the mother. So I wonder what "sins" she was adjuged of to make her unsuitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyefor Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 ..and when these fatherless persons are sentenced, why is it UK's responsibility to house and feed them for the next 20 / 25 years? Deport them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted December 12 Report Share Posted December 12 Don’t deport them bring back capital punishment I do not think we should execute every murderer as there are murders and murders that you can see why it happened but blatent terrorists that kill many people and really don’t care what they have done and blatant murderers that have killed just because they can should swing from the gallows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 5 hours ago, nobbyathome said: Don’t deport them bring back capital punishment I do not think we should execute every murderer as there are murders and murders that you can see why it happened but blatent terrorists that kill many people and really don’t care what they have done and blatant murderers that have killed just because they can should swing from the gallows Very much this 👆. It'll never happen, but it really really should. The animals that did this , deserve nothing better than a bang on the head with a ball pein hammer , and throw their wretched carcasses into landfill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 Did this sort of thing happen 40-50 years ago, but we didn't know about it, because we didn't have the media coverage then? Or have we just become more depraved.......if so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 3 hours ago, Robden said: Did this sort of thing happen 40-50 years ago, but we didn't know about it, because we didn't have the media coverage then? Or have we just become more depraved.......if so, why? It may well have happened and as you say not been known about widely due to different reporting in different times. WE, haven't become MORE DEPRAVED, but some of our visitors have bought the stone age with them to OUR country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 13 hours ago, Eyefor said: ..and when these fatherless persons are sentenced, why is it UK's responsibility to house and feed them for the next 20 / 25 years? Deport them. Simply because, if they go back to Pakistan, they would be released very quickly. I strongly suspect that those WHO SHOULD have acted, were curtailed by the race card anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 15 hours ago, bruno22rf said: Social services were informed by her teacher but dropped the investigation when they found she had been removed from her school for home tutoring. Am I alone in thinking that this act would have made me more determined to investigate? Whoever made that decision should be charged with dereliction of duty leading to manslaughter, yet another incident of our Social Services costing the tax payer nearly 13 billion and doing sweet FA. Heads need to roll. Very ignorant. If you go back through all of these high profile cases, all note the social workers are massively stretched. Several of the reviews note that there should be maximum caseload, noted to be around 13 cases/families per social worker. We have social workers allocated to 40-60 cases per/ families. In any profession, if you give the person 4x more workload than they can reasonably expect to physical see… let alone do a high standard of work on, something is going to go badly wrong. Cases will get dropped to “free up space” if thought not to be serious enough and things will slip through that should not. The social workers re baby P was sacked, and won at employment tribunal as under review from court did everything she should have done and was not to blame. Don’t let the media circus blame the front line staff for the failures of successive government and organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 4 hours ago, Robden said: Did this sort of thing happen 40-50 years ago, but we didn't know about it, because we didn't have the media coverage then? Or have we just become more depraved.......if so, why? Yes, it’s happened throughout history. There are various academic sources but you often need to be a member to access the info. You also don’t hear about the many many thousands of cases each year where social services remove and protect children because of “privacy” of the unfit families. You only ever hear when one slips through the net. As I already said, there’s only so much time in the day, if you give any professional 3-4x more workload than they could possibly ever handle, it’s always going to happen. It’s identified in every serious review, but remains unchanged. https://academic.oup.com/manchester-scholarship-online/book/14246/chapter-abstract/168128463?redirectedFrom=fulltext Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 31 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Very ignorant. If you go back through all of these high profile cases, all note the social workers are massively stretched. Several of the reviews note that there should be maximum caseload, noted to be around 13 cases/families per social worker. We have social workers allocated to 40-60 cases per/ families. In any profession, if you give the person 4x more workload than they can reasonably expect to physical see… let alone do a high standard of work on, something is going to go badly wrong. Cases will get dropped to “free up space” if thought not to be serious enough and things will slip through that should not. The social workers re baby P was sacked, and won at employment tribunal as under review from court did everything she should have done and was not to blame. Don’t let the media circus blame the front line staff for the failures of successive government and organisations. So let's simply pass the buck? Who is responsible then? I actually have 2 friends that are social workers and if they spent less time going on team building exercises and social events/back patting parties then more cases could be sorted. "Cases will be dropped to free up space" if "thought" not to be serious enough - that's it in a Nutshell surely - who made that fateful decision cos they could not have been more wrong. It's high time people started taking responsibility for their actions or lack of and stopped hiding behind weak excuses and large organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 30 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Who is responsible then? The parents who murdered her. There are bad people in the world. Child abuse of all sorts is rife. As I said, if the system has capacity to deal with so many cases and you throw 4-5x as many at the system it won’t be able to process and review them all properly. This has been identified by multiple reviews yet continues to happen. If you think blaming an individual worker will solve these problems dream on. The industry is already short staffed and unable to recruit, blame the front line staff when it goes wrong will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said: The parents who murdered her. There are bad people in the world. Child abuse of all sorts is rife. As I said, if the system has capacity to deal with so many cases and you throw 4-5x as many at the system it won’t be able to process and review them all properly. This has been identified by multiple reviews yet continues to happen. If you think blaming an individual worker will solve these problems dream on. The industry is already short staffed and unable to recruit, blame the front line staff when it goes wrong will help. No - blaming the individual responsible (and there will be such a person) will not "solve" the problem but it might make make others think twice if they knew that they will be held accountable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 if social services police etc blew the whistle with details of cases like this public outrage would have forced change and the child would still be alive but they are more concerned about keeping their jobs bet your life there are many more in her situation so until they speak up await the next dead child! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 15 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: No - blaming the individual responsible (and there will be such a person) will not "solve" the problem but it might make make others think twice if they knew that they will be held accountable. Would you blame an individual Police Officer if they were prioritising 5 emergency calls, and someone died on the call they didn’t make it to? Send that Police officer to prison for manslaughter? Would you hold doctors and nurses to the same ‘account’ for not seeing patients in time? People die everyday because they’re sat on waiting lists and not seen fast enough… paramedics prioritising calls and some don’t get made to fast enough … Blame the individual workers in a number of under resourced fields that are already struggling to recruit … The threat of being “accountable” (blamed or scapegoat) when something goes wrong doesn’t suddenly make those professionals able to do 4-5x as much work as they could previously. It just makes them leave the profession. 19 minutes ago, clangerman said: if social services police etc blew the whistle with details of cases like this public outrage would have forced change and the child would still be alive but they are more concerned about keeping their jobs bet your life there are many more in her situation so until they speak up await the next dead child! Blow the whistle on what? People hitting their kids? There’s thousands of incidents a day. There are indeed many more in her situation. Social workers get criticised if they go to court and remove the children, then get criticised on cases where they don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 Looking at the info, the social services had the family in court more than once asking for removal of the children, the judge let them go home, said it was more important to be together as a family than the concerns. Blame the frontline workers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 46 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Blow the whistle on what? People hitting their kids? as the catalogue of failure spanned YEARS take your pick when they are using a cricket bat to beat them definitely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted December 13 Report Share Posted December 13 London local news covered this daily. It’s beyond comprehension, like the one before, the one before that, the next one, etc. All these crimes against kids are something I’d expect in Victorian times, yet we still hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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