Ukraine, Russia, UK and Europe?

[Houseplant]

What is going on? I have some sympathy for Trumps's America first policies. If America (and other countries) had minded there own business over the last few decades, I believe the world would be a better place, but where does this leave us now? Ukraine is not a NATO member, so not America's problem. Hints at a European army? Those that aren't keen say that it's not necessary because we have NATO. That may/may not be true. I'm not even sure that Trump's America would come to the defence of another NATO member should they come under attack. America is no longer a reliable ally. Putin must be loving how divided the west has become. Now I read that Keir Starmer is willing to put British troops on the ground in Ukraine. I could see this escalating. Opinions?

Edited Monday at 10:31 by Houseplant

[Stonepark]

Keir Stammer is a globalist neocon technocrati Marxist doing what he is told by his masters.

If he is stupid enough to put more troops on the ground (SBS, SAS and RAF technicians etc are already there) he really needs to be charged with treason.

[Newbie to this]

^^^ This.

[welsh1]

There should be a law pased first that all MP's children of fighting age should be the first to be drafted to the front line, maybe then they would think twice about their idiotic ideas and the waste of life wars give.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

There should be a law pased first that all MP's children of fighting age should be the first to be drafted to the front line, maybe then they would think twice about their idiotic ideas and the waste of life wars give.

Amen to that.    

[Miserableolgit]

5 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

There should be a law pased first that all MP's children of fighting age should be the first to be drafted to the front line, maybe then they would think twice about their idiotic ideas and the waste of life wars give.

Absolutely. I believe similar sentiments were expressed during the First World War, however the chances of getting such a law through parliament, made up of MP’s, is probably non existent.

[mel b3]

9 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

There should be a law pased first that all MP's children of fighting age should be the first to be drafted to the front line, maybe then they would think twice about their idiotic ideas and the waste of life wars give.

Yep. The world would be a much more polite , and safe place . 👍

[Newbie to this]

1 minute ago, Miserableolgit said:

Absolutely. I believe similar sentiments were expressed during the First World War, however the chances of getting such a law through parliament, made up of MP’s, is probably non existent.

Which is why we need to move to the Swiss method of government 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I still say had all the Western Countries , NATO USA stood on the Border with Ukraine maybe Putin would have backed down invading, Look what has happened , 1000s Dead, Men/Women and Children,  1000s of Homes / Buildings destroyed, Whole Cities/ Towns/ Villages Destroyed, 1000s of Ukraine National fled to live in other Countries only to see their Country Decimated by a Russian President Dictator , Look what Happened in Tibet where China now rules with and Iron Fist, 

[Eyefor]

Could someone remind me of one single thing the whole of "Europe" has worked on together, that has been a success?

It seems that Starmer is using the POTUS principle - leadership in trouble, start a war somewhere (there is a graph online somewhere showing the POTUS popularity ratings in the US and when they went to war in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Bosnia, Iraq, etc etc).

Here we go again?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, Eyefor said:

Could someone remind me of one single thing the whole of "Europe" has worked on together, that has been a success?

It seems that Starmer is using the POTUS principle - leadership in trouble, start a war somewhere (there is a graph online somewhere showing the POTUS popularity ratings in the US and when they went to war in Vietnam, Nicaragua, Bosnia, Iraq, etc etc).

Here we go again?

But DT, PotUS is NOT starting a war, he will be ENDING one.                    

[Eyefor]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But DT, PotUS is NOT starting a war, he will be ENDING one.                    

That I agree with - and he is damn good at getting people to talk - but it is a "European Army" that is being considered to make it secure?

[welsh1]

In the 1980's we had 50,000 troops in Germany, 159,000 in the uk and 19,000 in Northern ireland

We now have 74,000 in total in the army, the government of all parties has seen the army as an easy way of saving money, and none of them think longer than their 5 years in office, yet again we are in a situation where our government is calling for boots on the ground and the reality is because of their incompetence we can't even fill a decent football stadium.

"Lions led by donkeys"

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

In the 1980's we had 50,000 troops in Germany, 159,000 in the uk and 19,000 in Northern ireland

We now have 74,000 in total in the army, the government of all parties has seen the army as an easy way of saving money, and none of them think longer than their 5 years in office, yet again we are in a situation where our government is calling for boots on the ground and the reality is because of their incompetence we can't even fill a decent football stadium.

"Lions led by donkeys"

Very much so.

[Rim Fire]

i think it was said that boots on the ground was only for a peace keeping agreement if a deal is made between Russia and Ukraine 

Edited Monday at 09:35 by Rim Fire

[Houseplant]

4 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

i think it was said that boots on the ground was only for a peace keeping agreement if a deal is made between Russia and Ukraine 

I don't think it is a big distinction. If they are there, they are there and may need to act, unless of course their only role is to document contraventions and war crimes as per useless UN peacekeeping missions. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I see retired Lord Dannatt has given his opinion  Again !!!! on the State of our Arm Forces, Maybe Mr Starmer should listen to him🤔

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, welsh1 said:

In the 1980's we had 50,000 troops in Germany, 159,000 in the uk and 19,000 in Northern ireland

We now have 74,000 in total in the army, the government of all parties has seen the army as an easy way of saving money, and none of them think longer than their 5 years in office, yet again we are in a situation where our government is calling for boots on the ground and the reality is because of their incompetence we can't even fill a decent football stadium.

"Lions led by donkeys"

I didn't realise it was so few!!

I honestly don't know what Starmer is thinking. 

[Gordon R]

Starmer seems to be trying to be seen as having some relevance. Trump has sidelined him and the other European leaders and being the first to volunteer British soldiers is his way of glossing over the snub. 

I find it difficult to take seriously anyone questioning the USA's commitment to NATO. Ukraine is not in NATO and won't be joining any time soon. The USA has pumped more money into supporting Ukraine, whilst other countries are now slagging them off. They have stumped up the money that countries like Germany talk about but don't contribute their fair share.

Russia was totally wrong to invade Ukraine, although Biden almost invited them in, but Trump is the one pushing for peace. Others criticise his terms, but talk about defeating Russia, with no regard to reality. Trump critics have compared him to Neville Chamberlain, whilst doing nothing to bring about peace.

Starmer is an opportunist of the worst kind. 

Edited Monday at 10:42 by Gordon R

[Bigbob]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Amen to that.    

+1

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, welsh1 said:

In the 1980's we had 50,000 troops in Germany, 159,000 in the uk and 19,000 in Northern ireland

We now have 74,000 in total in the army, the government of all parties has seen the army as an easy way of saving money, and none of them think longer than their 5 years in office, yet again we are in a situation where our government is calling for boots on the ground and the reality is because of their incompetence we can't even fill a decent football stadium.

"Lions led by donkeys"

just clarify "troops"......to the figuers you quote is that incuding the suppport staff etc....or is the figure that actual number of fighting bods on the ground or in the air and on the sea

[Bigbob]

1 hour ago, welsh1 said:

In the 1980's we had 50,000 troops in Germany, 159,000 in the uk and 19,000 in Northern ireland

We now have 74,000 in total in the army, the government of all parties has seen the army as an easy way of saving money, and none of them think longer than their 5 years in office, yet again we are in a situation where our government is calling for boots on the ground and the reality is because of their incompetence we can't even fill a decent football stadium.

"Lions led by donkeys"

Conscript all dole birds when needed 

[welsh1]

6 minutes ago, ditchman said:

just clarify "troops"......to the figuers you quote is that incuding the suppport staff etc....or is the figure that actual number of fighting bods on the ground or in the air and on the sea

That is the Army.

[holloway]

Just to clarify what Starmer actually said ,troops on the ground as part of a peacekeeping force if hostilities are called off .

I have seen several unclear sensationalist headlines that really aren't helpful.

[ditchman]

29 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

That is the Army.

so what is the number (actual) of fighting bods....(or some believe "armed social workers"...)