steve1066 Posted Monday at 18:40 Report Share Posted Monday at 18:40 2 hours ago, Gordon R said: The treaty specified security assurances not guarantees. There was no obligation to protect Ukraine. Ukraine is not in NATO, so how does that prove NATO isn't worth a carrot? This was the NATO bit I was referring to, obviously not full members, but Zelensky has mentioned this on two occasions for it to fall on deaf ears. . In 1997, NATO and Ukraine agreed to a “distinctive partnership” and established the NATO-Ukraine Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted Monday at 18:46 Report Share Posted Monday at 18:46 2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: It has done pretty well since 1949. What threats have there been towards NATO members since 1949. Genuine question as I am very keen on history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted Monday at 18:49 Author Report Share Posted Monday at 18:49 I'm not questioning the value of NATO historically, just presently. If Trump thinks America isn't getting a good deal on an agreement, he'll tear it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted Monday at 19:26 Report Share Posted Monday at 19:26 Quote . In 1997, NATO and Ukraine agreed to a “distinctive partnership” and established the NATO-Ukraine Council. Unless it commits NATO to go to war to protect Ukraine, it isn't worth a bean, in these circumstances. Whilst I don't totally agree with Trump's handling of this, he has brought peace nearer in my opinion. What he has rightly pointed out is that Europe is demanding a place at the table, but doesn't want to pay for the meal. They expect the USA to continue to pay more than its fair share and then cry foul, when Trump says enough is enough. The arrogance of Macron and Starmer - complaining that they they have been sidelined, when they have done exactly that to the rest of the EU. So full of their own self importance and failing popularity, they will do anything to snatch a cheap headline. Starmer reminds me of Blair - quite happy to send the forces (potentially to their death), in order to raise their international profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted Monday at 19:34 Report Share Posted Monday at 19:34 3 hours ago, Rewulf said: Russia asked about joining NATO after the collapse of the USSR, they got blanked. Just think about all the money that could have been saved from not having to 'defend' against them ? Ukraine wouldnt have even happened if NATO hadnt kept pushing up to Russias borders, and wouldnt have even been an issue if Russia was part of NATO. China wouldnt be the threat that it is if there was a unified west and Russia. In that respect NATO has failed to protect the peace, badly. Though even now they could bring Russia on board, guarantee Ukraines security, and work towards a lasting world peace, but theres no money in that so it wont happen. That is a real shame, imagine Russia as an ally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red carp Posted Monday at 19:35 Report Share Posted Monday at 19:35 Better if Starmer started by putting boots on our beaches to stop the boats 😩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted Monday at 19:37 Report Share Posted Monday at 19:37 Hello, I cannot see these 2 meetings going well for Ukraine ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted Monday at 19:51 Report Share Posted Monday at 19:51 24 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Unless it commits NATO to go to war to protect Ukraine, it isn't worth a bean, in these circumstances. Whilst I don't totally agree with Trump's handling of this, he has brought peace nearer in my opinion. What he has rightly pointed out is that Europe is demanding a place at the table, but doesn't want to pay for the meal. They expect the USA to continue to pay more than its fair share and then cry foul, when Trump says enough is enough. The arrogance of Macron and Starmer - complaining that they they have been sidelined, when they have done exactly that to the rest of the EU. So full of their own self importance and failing popularity, they will do anything to snatch a cheap headline. Starmer reminds me of Blair - quite happy to send the forces (potentially to their death), in order to raise their international profile. I totally agree Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted Monday at 20:33 Report Share Posted Monday at 20:33 55 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, I cannot see these 2 meetings going well for Ukraine ?? Yep. The making of a cluster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted Monday at 21:47 Report Share Posted Monday at 21:47 2 hours ago, Red carp said: Better if Starmer started by putting boots on our beaches to stop the boats 😩 Or made it illegal for the RNLI to be at the beck and call of illegal immigrants while other (French) boats escorts are on the scene to 'rescue' them, probably funded by huge donations from the likes of George Soros and some activist charities. I read somewhere that the RNLI is enjoying record donations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted Tuesday at 05:54 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted Tuesday at 05:58 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:58 A VERY valid point, this country, its politicians and judiciary really need to wake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted Tuesday at 06:46 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 06:46 52 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRYAN3 Posted Tuesday at 07:39 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 07:39 12 hours ago, Red carp said: Better if Starmer started by putting boots on our beaches to stop the boats 😩 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted Tuesday at 10:59 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:59 5 hours ago, Rewulf said: 🤣🤣🤣🤣😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted Tuesday at 11:13 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:13 12 minutes ago, Penelope said: 🤣🤣🤣🤣😉 ( psst. I don't get it 😀😀) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted Tuesday at 11:15 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:15 1 minute ago, johnphilip said: ( psst. I don't get it 😀😀) There was story of a chap NOT being deported because his son only liked the taste of British Chicken nuggets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted Tuesday at 11:23 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:23 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: There was story of a chap NOT being deported because his son only liked the taste of British Chicken nuggets. I must really keep up , thanks Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted Tuesday at 11:28 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:28 3 minutes ago, johnphilip said: I must really keep up , thanks Dave Similar to the one with the cat and the more recent one where a chap apparently stated that his nephew would miss him if he was deported. Our wonderful "WOKE" Politicians and Judiciary are responsible for carp like this being allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted Tuesday at 11:36 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:36 11 minutes ago, johnphilip said: I must really keep up , thanks Dave You'll never keep up. It's like a huge mental circus , that'll push any normal person over the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted Tuesday at 11:47 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:47 15 hours ago, steve1066 said: What threats have there been towards NATO members since 1949. Genuine question as I am very keen on history. That's like asking what's the point in having a burglar alarm and Chubb locks on your house. The whole point of Nato has been to act as a deterrent. Mainly to Russia who has always been a threat, evidenced by their actions over the years in many conflicts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted Tuesday at 11:48 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:48 5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: A VERY valid point, this country, its politicians and judiciary really need to wake up. Seemingly awake enough to follow the instructions from their masters? 12 minutes ago, mel b3 said: You'll never keep up. It's like a huge mental circus , that'll push any normal person over the edge. All by design may be? Easy population control stems from fear or bribery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted Tuesday at 11:51 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:51 2 minutes ago, old man said: Seemingly awake enough to follow the instructions from their masters? Do you mean "awake enough" or should it be "awoke enough" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted Tuesday at 11:53 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:53 23 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Similar to the one with the cat and the more recent one where a chap apparently stated that his nephew would miss him if he was deported. Our wonderful "WOKE" Politicians and Judiciary are responsible for carp like this being allowed. You forgot the chap that was fiddling with a young family member, he was allowed to stay, too. A right to a family life, I believe, the very one he was fiddling. Go figure??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted Tuesday at 11:56 Report Share Posted Tuesday at 11:56 3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Do you mean "awake enough" or should it be "awoke enough" Thank you for the correction John. 3 minutes ago, Penelope said: You forgot the chap that was fiddling with a young family member, he was allowed to stay, too. A right to a family life, I believe, the very one he was fiddling. Go figure??? Words nearly fail about the absurdity of this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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