Breastman Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know the OP or the circumstances of the assault, but AHB (I don't know why GBH keeps being mentioned) can be as simple as a broken nose from a single punch. When i first starting going out on the town regularly (late 90's to mid-00's) when pubs/clubs still had fixed kicking out times, fighting was an every night occurance and given the numbers i used to go out with it was next to unavoidable that one of the group would be involved to some extent, even if it was just to try to break it up. I was extraordinarily lucky to be involved in less than a handful of scuffles. An assault or ABH charge does not make a person a monster, and 11 years keeping your nose clean is more than enough, in my book, to show violence is not a persons defining characteristic. A person convicted of murder can be released from prison in that time considered no longer a threat to society for goodness sake! As has been mentioned the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Having your own certificate is obviously the best option but it looks like you're just going to have to make do with invites for now. If you can't afford to appeal i'd just try reapplying in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'm sorry mate, but there are reasons the licensing system is how it is - ABH with a custodial sentence and a record for fighting is simply too great a risk for them to take. You'd stand more chance appealing if it was a 'wayward teenager' phase, but very little if it was happening through into adulthood. All I can say is keep your life on track and try again in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 If I'm honest I'd say I'm glad the police don't give out SGC's to offenders who have been convicted of ABH / GBH Me too, and I suspect the majority of lawful shooters would feel the same . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know the OP or the circumstances of the assault, but AHB (I don't know why GBH keeps being mentioned) can be as simple as a broken nose from a single punch. When i first starting going out on the town regularly (late 90's to mid-00's) when pubs/clubs still had fixed kicking out times, fighting was an every night occurance and given the numbers i used to go out with it was next to unavoidable that one of the group would be involved to some extent, even if it was just to try to break it up. I was extraordinarily lucky to be involved in less than a handful of scuffles. An assault or ABH charge does not make a person a monster, and 11 years keeping your nose clean is more than enough, in my book, to show violence is not a persons defining characteristic. A person convicted of murder can be released from prison in that time considered no longer a threat to society for goodness sake! As has been mentioned the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Having your own certificate is obviously the best option but it looks like you're just going to have to make do with invites for now. If you can't afford to appeal i'd just try reapplying in a few years. But they would be unable to apply for an SGC! The Police have guidlines to follow and after some recent cock-ups perhaps they are sticking to the rules and denying applicants like the OP with good cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) The point was that 'society' judges them to no longer be a risk, despite them having committed the most heinous crime, Vs someone being judged STILL a risk, 11 years later for potentially just giving someone a bop on the nose. Doesn't add up in my book. Edited October 23, 2015 by Breastman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Some people seem to be saying that as it's ABH rather than GBH, it's not so serious. The OP was given a prison sentence of 18 months for it, which indicates it was at the greater end of the spectrum. --------------------------------------- Taken from Sentencing Council guidelines ... ABH is generally in 3 categories. Cat 3 being the lightest, which will nearly always carry community sentencing, Cat 2 in the middle, which can attract prison sentencing of up to 51 weeks, and Cat 1 being the worst, which will nearly always attract a prison sentence. To have been classed as Cat 1, the crime needs to show greater harm (serious injury must normally be present) AND higher culpability. Greater harm is defined thus : 1. Injury (which includes disease transmission and/or psychological harm) which is serious in the context of the offence. 2. Victim was particularly vulnerable 3. Sustained or repeated assault on the same victim. Higher culpability is defined as : (statutory aggravating factors) 1. Offence motivated by or demonstrating, hostility to the victim based on their sexual orientation (or perceived orientation) 2. Offence motivated by hostility to the victim based on their disability (or presumed disability) (other aggravating factors) Premeditation Use of a weapon Intent to commit more serious harm than actually occurred Deliberate targeting of vulnerable victim Leading role in group or gang carrying out the offence --------------------------------------------- So to go to prison for 18 months, you've got to be at the 'hard' end of the offence. It would be interesting to hear from the OP some EXACT details of the offence, rather than the minimal details we've heard so far. It sounds quite a bit more serious than the 'usual' fight outside a pub where someone got their jaw broken ... Edited October 23, 2015 by robbiep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Best advice here has been to join clubs. Clays ,firearms ,even air rifle clubs,shows your commitment to shooting sports. That way your good conduct whilst participating on a regular basis at these places will help your application in , say a couple of years time. FEO s talk to club secretarys ,they ask about character and safety and more importantly ,attendance. The police spend considerable time working out the pros and cons of granting certs in this situation,and if it goes into the negative side of things,they will not hesitate to refuse. Dont take this the wrong way,but you have to separate yourself from,what may be in their eyes,an ex con who is after a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'd say the best advise is to say forget it, very unlikely to be granted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Move on is my advice, and carry on going out with people who know and trust you. 18 months (the sentence applies - not the time inside) indicates you have been judged by a jury to be a violent person. It takes quite a bad offence to get 18 months. Think 'Raul Moat' and you get why the police are not going to let you loose with a shotgun. You initially said you had served 15 months but changed your story when picked up on it. OK that may have been a typo but fifteen doesn't sound anything like nine to me so the thread is coming apart already - sorry but that's simply how it reads to me. Edited October 23, 2015 by Dave-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Dave-G - I too couldn't understand how someone could mean to type 9 and ended up with 15, or how someone could hear nine incorrectly as 15. As usual with this type of thread, we are never given the full script to start with. More detail always emerges, which invariably starts alarm bells ringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Dave-G - I too couldn't understand how someone could mean to type 9 and ended up with 15, or how someone could hear nine incorrectly as 15. As usual with this type of thread, we are never given the full script to start with. More detail always emerges, which invariably starts alarm bells ringing. “Ring-a-ding-ding”! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Dave-G - I too couldn't understand how someone could mean to type 9 and ended up with 15, or how someone could hear nine incorrectly as 15. As usual with this type of thread, we are never given the full script to start with. More detail always emerges, which invariably starts alarm bells ringing. It does have a familiar ring to it Edited October 23, 2015 by bostonmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattooed Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Did the police say how long you had to wait before you could replaying again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essex Keeper Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Just a quick note my shooting buddy had done time Gbh and when he put in for his shootgun was told no!! so with the help of basc and lawyer ( he had to pay )he took the met to court and won and had to do the same with his fac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimny(off-road) Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Tattooed Did not state on my letter if I apply again in a year will they still bring it up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think they will bring it up forever. Some more details on the offence would be useful, please see my post further up the page regarding sentencing guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I agree with robbiep - it will always be brought up. It has happened and you can't re-write history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Dave-G - I too couldn't understand how someone could mean to type 9 and ended up with 15, or how someone could hear nine incorrectly as 15. As usual with this type of thread, we are never given the full script to start with. More detail always emerges, which invariably starts alarm bells ringing. She probably thought he said nifteen. There have been at least 2 previous threads like this. Unless the whole circumstances are laid out in one go, it's impossible to speculate on the whys and wherefores. Each time it sort of becomes clear, there is a new twist to take it back to square one. I don't blame the OPs for not wanting to air their laundry in public though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Always worrying when someone picks up on a flaw in the posts and the OP comes back with a bit of a lame explanation. PS - scrub "a bit of". Edited October 24, 2015 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 If they weren't going to give you a sgc based on your previous conviction(s) then I cannot see why they wasted time and resources coming to see you and check your security arrangements? Seems a bit back to front to me. They'd have gone to meet him to see what his attitude is like. It would be a bit rich to reject him without at least speaking to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Hi all I have just been refused my sgc, I have been shooting since a young lad and have always gone with my dad who had a sgc, my dad has sadly passed away so thought I'd try for my own, I do have a police record (abh) but I have been a good boy for 11 years now they refused me saying I was a danger to the public!!! I would go for appeal but it involves going to crown court, for a solicitor to represent me it would cost £2000 at least and not just that if I lose the appeal I'm liable to pay court fees so basically that's not an option so sadly there goes my shotgun days. Cheers all Lay it on the line and let us know the true cercumstanc of what happened to receive a 18 month custody a weapon must have been involved ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'm also not sure why people keep referring to gbh as that's not what the original poster has been convicted of?To get 18 months for an abh to me says it was significant or there's a history of violence beforehand. Just an opinion based on the little I've read on the thread.Also regarding an earlier post regarding someone refused for an old gbh and someone granted one after a more recent affray. The two offences are pretty much at the opposite ends of the scale. Pushing and shoving outside a pub could fit into the definition of affray, the maximum sentence for gbh is life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 just read this online; The maximum sentence for ABH is 5 years, and this offence can be dealt with in the Magistrates Court. In reality, defendants will rarely receive sentences anywhere near 5 years for this offence unless the attack, and defendants with no previous convictions will often not receive prison sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 just read this online; The maximum sentence for ABH is 5 years, and this offence can be dealt with in the Magistrates Court. In reality, defendants will rarely receive sentences anywhere near 5 years for this offence unless the attack, and defendants with no previous convictions will often not receive prison sentences. Halfway down page 2 I posted the sentencing guidelines for ABH. To go down for over 12 months, it has to be a serious attack causing a great deal of harm, and there has to be a great deal of culpability too. Incidentally, I also know someone who was convicted of ABH a few years ago. It was outside a pub, he was 19, no premeditation was involved, it was a single punch (no weapon). He was immediately contrite (he called the ambulance, administered first aid and handed himself in to the police, admitting what he had done without trying to minimise his actions), the victim admitted in court that both of them had been winding each other up, and the perpetrator apologised in court. As such, he was given community sentencing. Now, at the age of 33, he's a responsible man, with a wife and 2 small children, hard working, running his own plumbing business, employing 2 other people. And he's a FAC and SGC holder. I was one of his references on his application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minghis Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Sorry to be blunt but I believe you just have to accept this and get on with whatever you do without having a SG certificate. It's not the end of the world is it? To go to prison for that length of time is obviously the over riding factor here and if you are of the inclination to assault/beat/hurt someone quite badly then there is and must be concern about your suitability. I assume you were guilty of the offence and weren't innocent? Lions DO change their spots, I've seen it. You may well be completely safe. But on the balance of risk, I can see why you've not been granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts