12gauge82 Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 He's talking a great deal of nonsense! Sorry couldn't help it ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Sorry if this has already been discussed. The question often asked is "Is the semi automatic "sporting" ." How can it be unsporting to use a mechanicaly self loading gun and yet "sporting" to use a pair of guns - TWO GUNS - and a loader who together can keep up a constant and murderous rate of fire. The logic in the anti semi auto for game shooting argument seems to me to be a bit warped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 He's talking a great deal of sense! I refer you to the post above yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Semi's you either love'm or hate'm.I only ever liked them,never liked using anything else but sems.If they band them tomorrow id hand in my SGC.Hold on i already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) I personally agree with this. ^ It wouldn't bother me if a semi was used on a driven day - and I'd quite like to use mine once or twice just to see if I preferred it, really. You can get some cracking semis with lovely wood and engraving just like OUs and I don't think they'd look out of place at all. One thing that annoys me is the stigma SA users get over safety, ( I fully appreciate break barrels are easier for others to see if they're safe or not) at the clay ground I normally shoot at, there are gun stands for bystanders to leave their guns in - when I'm shooting my OUs unlike most, I leave it broken in the stand, butt on the base, chambers exposed facing down and barrels leaning against the top of the rack. To me personally, all OU shooters should do this as when they get closed they're suddenly 'a LOT' more dangerous than any semi auto is. So I feel like people are a bit hypercritical. Not sure on others thoughts on this matter ? However, I also fully appreciate tradition and I genuinely believe it depends on the type of shoot you're either a member of or buy a day off. I like being able to dress up relatively smartly for the syndicate I'm a member of, and I personally feel that my Beretta OU makes up part of that for me. Atb, Dave Why is closed double MORE dangerous than a SA sitting in the same rack??? Seen plenty sitting with bolt closed and no flag/shell in it Thats why i feel ANY closed gun could potentially be loaded, with a break barrel everyone can see its in a safe state from a distance. Wots not to understand. Dunno the type of folk u all shoot with or shoot on the estates u beat/pick up on but they must be a lot lot safer than some i have seen over the years. Seen some shocking handling over the years but thankfully never any accidents Its all very well preaching muzzle awareness but why not have an extra layer of protection?? How many of u have 1 up the spout when ur walking up throu very thick cover?? I've been out with quite a few folk that will jump fences or lay a semi down to check a trap with 1 up the spout. U/ well i just would never do that with a break barrel Edited October 29, 2016 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) Must admit we don't allow semi's either but purely on safety grounds, but we do allow cammo or most other things. I really do think there is safety issues when shooting walked up game with a SA esp if ground is very rough. Atleast with a break barrel the rest of the guns can see its broken, with a semi no visible signs while walking esp if ur on there left. I got rid of my semi even for vermin control/trapping, just diidn't like not haing the break barrel and picking up shell casings is a nightmare in rough cover or after flighting duck. If u have a medical condition then fair enough if u ask the shoot captain/keeper first and all the guns know about it. So if a break open gun is so much 'safer' than an auto, perhaps you can answer WHY all of the shooting'accidents' that I have seen over the last 55 years have involved break open guns and NEVER an auto ? How can you possibly suggest that an 'auto' is less safe than a break open gun ? ANY gun is only as safe as the person that is holding it, surely ? You can leave any gun loaded or unloaded, semi auto or other variety side by side in a gun rack and they will ALL be perfectly safe UNTIL someone picks one of them up ! Edited October 29, 2016 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Why is closed double MORE dangerous than a SA sitting in the same rack??? Seen plenty sitting with bolt closed and no flag/shell in it Thats why i feel ANY closed gun could potentially be loaded, with a break barrel everyone can see its in a safe state from a distance. Wots not to understand. Dunno the type of folk u all shoot with or shoot on the estates u beat/pick up on but they must be a lot lot safer than some i have seen over the years. Seen some shocking handling over the years but thankfully never any accidents Its all very well preaching muzzle awareness but why not have an extra layer of protection?? How many of u have 1 up the spout when ur walking up throu very thick cover?? I've been out with quite a few folk that will jump fences or lay a semi down to check a trap with 1 up the spout. U/ well i just would never do that with a break barrel Just to play devil's advocate I've seen plenty of people with break open guns broken open but with a cartridge in the chamber, if they were to fall, drop the gun etc that gun could quickly shut causing a very dangerous situation, I've never known anyone to walk about with a loaded and chambered semi which is basically what a broken open gun with cartridge loaded is. Military and police carry firearms often with chambered rounds (not that I'm advocating that)I'm of the mindset firearms aren't inherently dangerous but people with dangerous firearm handling practices are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 On clay grounds you often see a pile of shells to the right of the station, all discarded by semis who don't even /try/ to cleanup. I've seen once one guy -- a single time -- pick up his shells after a round of skeet. First and only time.. If you play compak, and the guy to the left is shooting a SA, the shells will arrive straight to your feet as you are waiting to shoot. Lovely; and of course, they won't be picked up. I don't dislike the idea of SA's really, seems for quite a few situation they are awesome -- however it's mostly *users* that are the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exudate Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 It's a good job that shooting a semi-auto isn't a protected characteristic. There'd be a lot of discrimination cases, if so. Jees..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Somebody has already beaten me to it, the only time I've seen an incident or heard of one is somebody with a break action. I've witnessed your stereotypical old timers walking up dykes with a sxs closed over their forearm as well as standing about waiting for a drive to start with his gun shut waving it about! There was an accident some 6 years ago where a lady was putting her gun in the slip and it went off injuring a beater. As for clay grounds I'm not saying all SA users are innocent but again I've witnessed small and large groups of break action users at grimsthorpe not bother picking up shells, the irony is most of the spent shells are right next to the bins rather than feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Shredder. Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 On clay grounds you often see a pile of shells to the right of the station, all discarded by semis who don't even /try/ to cleanup. I've seen once one guy -- a single time -- pick up his shells after a round of skeet. First and only time.. If you play compak, and the guy to the left is shooting a SA, the shells will arrive straight to your feet as you are waiting to shoot. Lovely; and of course, they won't be picked up. I don't dislike the idea of SA's really, seems for quite a few situation they are awesome -- however it's mostly *users* that are the problem. You sir are out of touch, I use both SA and OU for clays, the SA pitches them 8 to 9 feet beyond the rope and if you think I am going over that to collect shells you are having a laugh.The OU is another matter, when I open I do not eject but remove by hand and bin the shells where others that are in front just eject over their shoulder with no thought at all for any one. Do not class all SA users into one pot with out first looking at the facts and if the shells from the SA are arriving at your feet get back behind the rope!, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 We're getting close to the usual stand off between semi auto users and breach loaders. I shoot a variety of sxs shotguns and own a Beretta SP ltd edition, all to me are a thing of beauty. I have owned a couple of semi autos, to give them try, neither were nice to look at, neither in my opinion were safe to use in the presence of others and I will never ever own or use one again. I realise they are popular in the USA but look at the cars they produce! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 We're getting close to the usual stand off between semi auto users and breach loaders. I shoot a variety of sxs shotguns and own a Beretta SP ltd edition, all to me are a thing of beauty. I have owned a couple of semi autos, to give them try, neither were nice to look at, neither in my opinion were safe to use in the presence of others and I will never ever own or use one again. I realise they are popular in the USA but look at the cars they produce! Not just the USA. The self loading system is used and approved the world over, and if you include the military and pistols must be the most employed firearm mechanism in the world with a safety record second to none, otherwise, according to many on here, we'd be hearing of accidental deaths on a monumental worldwide scale, and last time I checked, we aren't. Weird eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Well I was going to take a semi auto on my next shoot but reading this thread I don't want to offend anyone so I'll bring my pump instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) But these accidents on shoots would happen anyway wether a SA or double, there due to unsafe handling, if the ammount of semi's rose on shoots believe me the nmber of accidents would rise. Its the fact the gun is solid/closed all the time and can't be seen to be empty or safe very easily is my problem with it. U could hand a safe gun almost any type of gun and they'd be safe but their is a large % of shooters that don't have perfect muzzle awareness at all times I've lost count of the ammount of times i've been handed semis with the bolt closed, i have no idea if that is loaded or not, 2 of the estates i used to go out with hounds/vermin it was also the norm to carry there semi's over there shoulder so gun pointing almost horizontal in front of them (these are the same people who never flag/wedge bolt open) I stopped going as far too many safety issues. Mibbe its jus the semi users i know and have seen but i'd never want to walk beside 1 on a walked up day. On that FT the other gun was the other half of the draw but ur walking throu some pretty thick cover climbing finces and jumping ditches/burns all with a handler and 2 judges very close to u and stewards and gallery not very far away either. That gun would of been live with 1 up for the entire day, yet my s/s would have spent large portions of the day broken. It only takes 1 slip/trip and a lifetime of perfect muzzle awareness is just a satistic All u super safe semi users, if ur on a walked up day if u are really going to walk about all day with nothing up the spout, would u not be easier just to take ur double over ur arm with 2 down tubes? Closing and mounting would be far easier than cycling the mount mid mount. If 2 shot semis were ever the norm wot next the 5, 8 shot boys having a moan they can't use theres??? Edited October 30, 2016 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Safe gun handling is safe gun handling no matter the type. Would love to use my Benelli for all shooting but will never take it to a game day because I know it upsets some. If one of the regulars on my shoot used one I wouldn't mind because I know that they are all super safe. If a guest, unknown to me, turned up with one I would be over cautious until I knew he was a safe pair of hands. Even if you had a five shot you don't have to use more than two. Takes slightly longer for me to load the SA than my O/U so I am probably better off without it. But I would still like to use it for game. I use it for everything else. As already said above the same was once said of O/U's. Now they are the norm and the S/S's are the rarity. Times change... Our armed forces operate around the world - in heavy cover and over obstacles both rural and urban - with semi autos and they don't seem to shoot each other, or them selves, very often. Like I say - Safe gun handling is safe gun handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I totally agree with u gandalf, on a peg a semi should be safe. (althou strictly speaking ilegal to use ur 5 shot no matter how many shells u put in) But i work my dogs on a lot off different shoots and have done for many years, sometimes as many as 100 days a season, Most days u would not have to look to hard to see evdence of poor gun handling (not always unsafe but vergeing on it) and every now and again some unsafe or dangerous handling shooting and thats with break barrels guns, It's not just ur peg guns, seen plenty on diy syndicates, keepers days or vermin/hound days too It could be an easy mistake to forget hw many u put in the mag so thought it was empty but has loaded 1 up spout, esp with the craic exicement off a driven day, unruly dogs running about etc, the odd glass of port Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) I don't think our views make much odds. You will and have received replies from lovers and haters of s/a's. From what you say your syndicate permits their use so I assume the syndicates senior officer or keeper has assessed them or maybe even uses one. If they are permitted then users should abide by syndicate rules for using them. If guns are spaced safely apart then I see no reason for them not to be used. I don't see that cartridge ejection plays any part in this discussion because the user will be well away from any other gun. He/she can pick up empties after that drive. As for their use while clay target shooting, I have come late in life into s/a's and enjoy using them. I only shoot at one practice ground where the rule is they must be flagged when not in use or uncased. I do not like casing the gun because it's a short time between stands and the barrels/action stay hot inside the case. I also hate slings or the attachment of the hardware so I carry s/a's vertical on my right shoulder holding the stock with the muzzle is some 30"+ above my head or anyone elses for that matter. The ground owners has stopped to talk with me about shooting and has never commented on this method. Both my auto's throw their empties slightly forward and right. I always pick up my ejected cases at each stand which they have also watched me do. 99 times out of 100 there are no shooters around so I go over the safety ropes to do this. At which time the gun is in the supplied stand, plugged with safety on. It's all in the mind. Edited October 30, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) But these accidents on shoots would happen anyway wether a SA or double, there due to unsafe handling, if the ammount of semi's rose on shoots believe me the nmber of accidents would rise. Eh?! I can't make head nor tail of your contradictory statements? Your first sentence is 100% correct; accidents are due to unsafe practices, but then you claim the amounts of accidents would rise if more semis were used!! Absolute garbage! For a start it's merely your opinion, which can't be proved, but the fact there are millions of semi auto mechanisms in use on a daily basis confirms how safe they actually are. Shooting accidents happen in the main because some numptie had his finger on the trigger! A cop shoots himself in the leg during a class on safe gun handling because HE HAD HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER! A british cop kills another during training because he HAD HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER WHILE HIS FIREARM WAS POINTED AT ANOTHER PERSON! A bloke in the USA shoots himself in the leg while removing his firearm from its holster BECAUSE HE HAD HIS FINGER ON THE TRIGGER! ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!!!! If you dont want to shoot anyone, keep your muzzle pointing in a safe direction AND YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER! Its the fact the gun is solid/closed all the time and can't be seen to be empty or safe very easily is my problem with it. U could hand a safe gun almost any type of gun and they'd be safe but their is a large % of shooters that don't have perfect muzzle awareness at all times I've lost count of the ammount of times i've been handed semis with the bolt closed, i have no idea if that is loaded or not, 2 of the estates i used to go out with hounds/vermin it was also the norm to carry there semi's over there shoulder so gun pointing almost horizontal in front of them (these are the same people who never flag/wedge bolt open) I stopped going as far too many safety issues. Mibbe its jus the semi users i know and have seen but i'd never want to walk beside 1 on a walked up day. On that FT the other gun was the other half of the draw but ur walking throu some pretty thick cover climbing finces and jumping ditches/burns all with a handler and 2 judges very close to u and stewards and gallery not very far away either. That gun would of been live with 1 up for the entire day, yet my s/s would have spent large portions of the day broken. It only takes 1 slip/trip and a lifetime of perfect muzzle awareness is just a satistic All u super safe semi users, if ur on a walked up day if u are really going to walk about all day with nothing up the spout, would u not be easier just to take ur double over ur arm with 2 down tubes? Closing and mounting would be far easier than cycling the mount mid mount. If 2 shot semis were ever the norm wot next the 5, 8 shot boys having a moan they can't use theres??? The rest of your post is ridiculous! If you want to oppose the use of semi autos on driven/walked up shoots on the grounds of tradition, then fair enough, ( but even that depends how far back you want to take tradition...damascus barrelled hammer guns ? ) but to claim the system is inherently dangerous is ludicrous. Edited October 30, 2016 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iano Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 So my take on this is when I'm out and about with my rifles, I'm probably safe. But when I'm out with my semi, I'm a danger to myself and the public - come off it. If you are relying on the break action of your O/U to keep you safe, then sir, you have and are the problem. Unless it is of course the fact that my semi cost a couple of hundred pounds, but I drive a BMW, ride to hounds and have expensive suits so does that cancel out? I've coached and introduced thousands of students to shooting (air rifle, pistol and .22) over the past decade and I've never once assessed a 'gun' as being dangerous, just the moron who was holding it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 You join a club it has rules, if you don't like it don't join. There is serious history on driven days and Semis don't do it, many still don't like O/U, such is life. I prefer Semi for everything, it works for me, but when I do a driven day I do what the owner wants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 As much as i would like to use my semi auto for everything, i think it would be a shame to lose the history and sense of tradition when dressed in tweeds and using a sxs on game days. It would be akin to seeing the Local hunt ride to hounds in nikes and jeans. Progress is wonderful in most things but Traditional country sports i dont think is one of them. Safety with semi autos has nothing to do with it, any loaded gun is potentially dangerous, unloaded is the true safe way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exudate Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Evolution, gents. Evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Evolution, gents. Evolution. evolution has given us modern ways to produce meat and modern materials to wear so why do we still hunt wild game and wear wool and animal skins. Some things cannot be improved upon easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Must just be me then. But most days im out with hounds/vermin i will be passed a semi numerous times a day while folk cross obsticles, the majority have the bolts closed with nothing sticking out, personally i think that is unsafe. Also see plenty of the same people carrying the gun either over there shoulder horizontally or in 1 hand down by there side pointing horizantally. Niether is safe. i do not consider the folk to be overly safe despite being vastly experienced (complacancy??) But on the rare occasion i shoot with them and there using O/U's they always break them for obsticles and carry the guns in a safe fashion. So yes i would say semi's can be more dangerous in my experience, And i have a lot less faith than many of u on here about the high gun handling skills of many shooters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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