DPF cleaning fluid

[Wb123]

I thought you could still get dummy dpf casings to get a system with the filter removed through the mot.

 

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/blog/fake-dpf-pipes-now-available/

 

Failing that save your money and get something old enough not to need one.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Wb123

[Westley]

I have solved the problem. Retire, take up clay shooting, you then have the pleasure of visiting various clay grounds around the area. My shooting buddies are more than happy to assist me in clearing my DPF, they just let me take my vehicle, job done !

[aga man]

Well, it seems the DPF thing has been a steep learning curve for me. After owning my Octavia scout for 2 years, the engine has failed and in the words of my Skoda dealership  has suffered catastrophic engine damage and the likely cause is the DPF continuously trying to regenerate, which in turn has caused the engine oil to mix with diesel. I had no warning lights or anything with this.

The car has done 88000 thousand miles and is worth approx. £3000 in px {or was}  and a new engine is £4500 + fitting etc etc. So the car is now scrap.

To say I am ****** off is an understatement. First and last time I buy any vehicle with a DPF.

[Wilksy II]

Blimey! I don’t often dip into the motoring section, sorry to read about your car problems mate that’s a big bill either way and a right pain in the backside!

[hod]

Jeez.  That's mental.  And horribly expensive.

 

I currently have two petrol cars (focus/galaxy) as we only really do short journeys, maybe 3 miles tops each way a few times a day at most.  The last diesel we had (Citroen Grand Picasso) had a DPF failure, as it was barely ever driven in circumstances where it would re-gen.  I'd never even heard of DPFs prior to the warning lights/permanent limp mode it went into - I'd had diesels before but always pre-regulation older ones.  Snuck it into a dealer as a part exchange, no way I could sell it privately and cost prohibitive to replace the exhaust system.

 

Annoying as the petrol mpg is garbage compared to diesel but i console myself that we don't do a huge mileage, maybe 12k between 2 cars.  

 

Various friends claim that it's never effected their use of diesels, but then they get new cars on HP or similar and change them every 2/3 years before DPFs would become gummed up with soot.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

14 hours ago, aga man said:

Well, it seems the DPF thing has been a steep learning curve for me. After owning my Octavia scout for 2 years, the engine has failed and in the words of my Skoda dealership  has suffered catastrophic engine damage and the likely cause is the DPF continuously trying to regenerate, which in turn has caused the engine oil to mix with diesel. I had no warning lights or anything with this.

The car has done 88000 thousand miles and is worth approx. £3000 in px {or was}  and a new engine is £4500 + fitting etc etc. So the car is now scrap.

To say I am ****** off is an understatement. First and last time I buy any vehicle with a DPF.

I am on my second diesel with a DPF, it will be the last as the next car or van will be a petrol engine version

[Davyo]

Is DPF failure just down to poor service maintanance?

[aga man]

1 minute ago, Davyo said:

Is DPF failure just down to poor service maintanance?

Not according to skoda. They serviced the car 4 months ago.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, aga man said:

Not according to skoda. They serviced the car 4 months ago.

And didnt notice an issue ?
Ill be honest, Ive never heard of a DPF  causing an engine death.
What exactly has failed on the engine ?

[aga man]

The bottom end has been minced up, causing the engine to basically seize up. The engine oil capacity should be 3.5 litres or there abouts and it had almost 6 litres in it which was a mix of oil and diesel. I don't understand any of these things really but they say the re generation of the DPF involves diesel being pumped in and somehow this mostly ended up back into the oil?

I had no DPF warning light and no oil pressure lights. The car was otherwise driving fine then lost power shortly followed by some awful engine noises then stalled and simply would not turn over. Cam belt etc was all in tact.

They have removed the sump which they are charging me £200 for and discovered minced up shell bearings etc. The sump is left off for me to see if/when I wish to.

To be honest after being recovered 40 miles from home and all the family upset etc, I don't have the energy to complain or cause a fuss. Just one of those things in life. Not the best start to the new year.

It was a nice car otherwise.

Edited January 5, 2018 by aga man

[oowee]

Bad news at anytime hope it gets sorted and no doubt the rest of the year can only get better 

[old'un]

Just been reading about DPF on diesel cars, it seems they came in around 2008/9 (EU rules) well it looks from what I have been reading these DPF will be the end of diesel cars, the motoring organisations are recommending that you do NOT add cleaners to the fuel, but to follow the procedure in your handbook for cleaning the filter.

 

The worrying thing is, a replacement filter start at around £1000 and up to £3500/4000 for higher end cars, the expected life of a DPF is 100k miles or less depending on your driving style.

The RAC said it will kill second hand sales of diesel cars with as little as 50k on the clock, as the potential buyer as no idea how the car as been driven over that 50k miles and could end up having costly repair bills on their new purchase.

 

If I did not know any better I would say these DPF are part of the EU plan to rid Europe of diesel cars, or am I being a bit unfair?

[Saltings]

3 hours ago, aga man said:

The bottom end has been minced up, causing the engine to basically seize up. The engine oil capacity should be 3.5 litres or there abouts and it had almost 6 litres in it which was a mix of oil and diesel. I don't understand any of these things really but they say the re generation of the DPF involves diesel being pumped in and somehow this mostly ended up back into the oil?

I had no DPF warning light and no oil pressure lights. The car was otherwise driving fine then lost power shortly followed by some awful engine noises then stalled and simply would not turn over. Cam belt etc was all in tact.

They have removed the sump which they are charging me £200 for and discovered minced up shell bearings etc. The sump is left off for me to see if/when I wish to.

To be honest after being recovered 40 miles from home and all the family upset etc, I don't have the energy to complain or cause a fuss. Just one of those things in life. Not the best start to the new year.

It was a nice car otherwise.

nothing to do with dpf  the problem you describe is caused by the fuel injectors seal/bleed off pipes leaking diesel into the engine as the injectors are internal in a lot of engines     a well known problem with  mitsy l200  3l Isuzu trooper  td5 etc  go back spit your dummy out a lot of engines replaced under warranty you may have to pay fitting costs 

[Hendrix's rifle]

1 hour ago, Saltings said:

nothing to do with dpf  the problem you describe is caused by the fuel injectors seal/bleed off pipes leaking diesel into the engine as the injectors are internal in a lot of engines     a well known problem with  mitsy l200  3l Isuzu trooper  td5 etc  go back spit your dummy out a lot of engines replaced under warranty you may have to pay fitting costs 

Sorry but you could be wrong, if it's constantly regenerating it adds excess fuel in to the engine to help get hot (burn the soot) so there's a good chance it's seeped past the rings and contaminated the oil. That could also be another cause, piston rings. If driving the car hard from start up it will wear them faster, also allowing fuel past the rings. If they pull the head off they would be able to tell by the bores. Sounds like it's past that point however. Also, another thing is I can't see it happening within a few months after having a service and if that's the case there was something wrong anyway with the car they havnt picked up on. I'm pretty sure it would have been knocking if it got that bad so personally I'd go back and wreak havoc with them! Or don't take the car to the main agents anyway, rip off merchants. Always have been. A friend of mine works for ford and he gets a lot of bonuses from not fitting things on a service... that's why I service my own cars seeing as I have access to 4 ramps sorry about the bad news this early on in the year however!

[Saltings]

a lot of recalls for injector seal failure  diesel in the oil  and also recalls for injector replacement depending on batch numbers  have known the service engineers use the dpf regenerate excuse and fuel going back into the sump   not possible as a small amount of fuel is introduced into the dpf to aid a hotter burn then out the exhaust  does not regenerate on short runs hence give it a blast on the motorway   every chance there was diesel in the oil on the last service if they don't tell you they  don't have to do the warranty work 

[Cannon]

4 hours ago, Saltings said:

a lot of recalls for injector seal failure  diesel in the oil  and also recalls for injector replacement depending on batch numbers  have known the service engineers use the dpf regenerate excuse and fuel going back into the sump   not possible as a small amount of fuel is introduced into the dpf to aid a hotter burn then out the exhaust  does not regenerate on short runs hence give it a blast on the motorway   every chance there was diesel in the oil on the last service if they don't tell you they  don't have to do the warranty work 

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it's wrong. Injector seals have absolutely nothing to do with diesel ending up in the oil, even if you're talking about the internal injector seals (which I imagine you aren't referring to, rather those at the base of the injector port), their failure would not cause complete engine failure. When injectors fail, they mostly fail in a closed/restricted position. This is why leak back tests are carried out by diesel specialists to determine whether or not a diesel injector is blocked. It is possible for diesel injectors to become incontinent, but you would have rough running and excessive exhaust smoke if this was the case. Something the OP didn't report.

In the case of the Skoda above, the most likely cause is excessive DPF regeneration failures. When performing a DPF regeneration, the engine control module will give a command to inject additional diesel into the cylinders in an effort to raise the exhaust temperature. This increase in exhaust temperature is used to burn off the particulates in the DPF, which to a certain extent cleans it. During the regeneration process, some of the additional diesel manages to make its way past the piston rings and into the sump where it mixes with the oil. Too many failed attempts could equate to a lot of diesel making its way to the sump in a very short time. Short journeys and failure to continue to drive the vehicle once a regen has started are the two biggest contributors to premature engine failure in DPF equipped vehicles. Once the oil gets contaminated with diesel, the oil gradually loses its ability to properly lubricate the engine. Hence the loud noise and failure to restart (engine seizure due to insufficient lubrication).

As for going back and spitting your dummy out, this is perhaps the worst thing you could do. This advice is really bad for a number of reasons. You would look like a fool for one, and there would be absolutely no chance thereafter of any sort of compromise or contribution from the dealer (not that you should expect one). 4 months of failed regenerations is ample time for excessive diesel to build up in the sump, assuming they changed the oil on the last service of course. This cannot be proven, but even if it could, there was nothing stopping you from keeping an eye on the oil level yourself. It's basic vehicle maintenance that is all too often neglected because of the minor inconvenience it poses, but It keeps folk like myself in a job.

[blackbird]

19 hours ago, aga man said:

The bottom end has been minced up, causing the engine to basically seize up. The engine oil capacity should be 3.5 litres or there abouts and it had almost 6 litres in it which was a mix of oil and diesel. I don't understand any of these things really but they say the re generation of the DPF involves diesel being pumped in and somehow this mostly ended up back into the oil?

I had no DPF warning light and no oil pressure lights. The car was otherwise driving fine then lost power shortly followed by some awful engine noises then stalled and simply would not turn over. Cam belt etc was all in tact.

They have removed the sump which they are charging me £200 for and discovered minced up shell bearings etc. The sump is left off for me to see if/when I wish to.

To be honest after being recovered 40 miles from home and all the family upset etc, I don't have the energy to complain or cause a fuss. Just one of those things in life. Not the best start to the new year.

It was a nice car otherwise.

Did you not see the oil level on the dipstick way to high ???? If the car only holds 3.5lts of oil & you say there was 6lts of oil/diesel in the sump the level would have been miles to high.

[aga man]

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Did you not see the oil level on the dipstick way to high ???? If the car only holds 3.5lts of oil & you say there was 6lts of oil/diesel in the sump the level would have been miles to high.

If I had dipped the oil I would have no doubt noticed it but with the car being serviced no so long ago, I didn't really feel the need to dip the oil.

 

For the record I don't think the problem was related to injector seals, I have had that problem in the past with my old td5 discovery and that had other symptoms, bad starting etc.

The Skoda sump and it's broken up content stinks of the sooty smell you get when the car re generates. I am pretty sure the DPF was at fault.

The car will be heading for the breakers on Monday and has been replaced with a petrol mitsubushi lancer gs3. No 4x4 but the wife is happy, so that will do for now.

A bitter pill to swallow perhaps and I don't like to think how much money I have lost, but no one died or got injured so life is good.

Thanks for all the comments.

[bluesj]

My guess would  be that the DPF problem was a symptom of another fault up stream,  I can't se how a fault with the dpf can cause the oil to become diluted with fuel. A problem with the fuel / inlet systems can cause over fueling and that can cause dilution of the oil and the dpf to keep regenerating. 

[Westward]

Cannon is correct. I'm about to replace my first (and last) diesel car. I wasn't aware of DPFs and the potential for expensive repairs until after I'd bought it. I did a lot of research which indicated that a DPF regen needs a good motorway run, especially in cold weather. The monthly 10 minute run at 2,000+ rpm simply isn't always enough and an incomplete regen means it'll keep on trying and mostly failing to complete. What came through loud and clear was that it's essential to check the oil level regularly and if it moves up the dipstick and a decent high speed run isn't an option, get to the dealer and have them do a static regen to burn down the soot filter in the DPF.

[Hendrix's rifle]

Agreed with the last bit cannon, that's why ive still got a job ?

[Saltings]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmy5Jo5Lsvk

this can explain better where the seals are located and how diesel gets into the sump oil    two rubber seals on either side of a fuel gallery the injectors are fed by a high pressure fuel pump   seal kit about £30

Edited January 6, 2018 by Saltings

[thepasty]

Best thing to do with a DPF is put a scaffold pole or the likes through it (theres probably neaters ways )and get it the sensors mapped so the car knows no difference. I had loads of problems with mine a few years back, been no trouble since I showed it the scaffold pole

No probs with MOT's either.

[Rupert]

An environmentally sound decision.

 

[thepasty]

My understanding is that DPF dont stop the soot they just hold it until full then dump it out/burn it off under certain conditions e.g. a good drive down the motorway. It goes into the environment eventually no matter how you look at it.