London attack

[clakk]

Even Tasers would have ended this sooner before people got killed ,people tasered are easier to disarm and or pepper spray .A face full of this and your blind and distressed so can be neutralised .As Saddler says a locked safe in each vehicle restricts access and if the officers know what theyre heading into can be "armed" ready to confront the issue

[la bala]

For me there is only one answer to this problem ,and the solution can only come from the Muslim community,but it seems they are not willing to purge their own, untill they are we won't stop this hard measures make make us feel good In The short term it will only make matters worse in the long run.

One of the most sensible posts i have seen.

[Scully]

Even Tasers would have ended this sooner before people got killed ,people tasered are easier to disarm and or pepper spray .A face full of this and your blind and distressed so can be neutralised .As Saddler says a locked safe in each vehicle restricts access and if the officers know what theyre heading into can be "armed" ready to confront the issue

 

If you're advocating pepper spray then why not allow law abiding people access to it? The police are to be commended for a speedy reactive response to last nights killings, but a lot of damage was inflicted in that eight minutes. I stress the 'reactive' part.

[kyska]

I'm not sure if the police used a 'contractor' for this response, the BBC stated this morning the SAS was scrambled in London last night, and its appears three people were shot with fifty rounds of ammunition, that doesn't sound 'police' to me.

 

Either way, what a response, no one has any idea of what it prevented, it was carnage in 8 minutes.

 

Poor people.

[motty]

Do people not accept that we have a massive problem with a good proportion of Muslims living on this island? It's not just the terrorism, either. I haven't heard of any Sikh grooming gangs, raping our children in most of the cities in the Uk.

[yickdaz]

clakk, on 04 Jun 2017 - 4:29 PM, said:

Even Tasers would have ended this sooner before people got killed ,people tasered are easier to disarm and or pepper spray .A face full of this and your blind and distressed so can be neutralised .As Saddler says a locked safe in each vehicle restricts access and if the officers know what theyre heading into can be "armed" ready to confront the issue

well said

[Old farrier]

Interesting thread and debate

Not sure how to resolve it

But think

Arm all the police

 

So then a policeman calling at your house requesting to come in

Do you ask him to unload his firearm and show clear

There's a massive problem with arming the police

 

All police will assumed to be armed if you arm a high number makes them more of a target and massive pressure not fair on them

 

As I said don't know what the answer is but don't think giving a gun to every policeman is the right way

 

Just my thoughts

All the best

Of

[ordnance]

 

 

then someone mentioned the police being armed even when off duty that would put police under even more pressure, chance of a stolen weapon would go up ten fold.

A UK police force already arms its officers on and off duty.

 

 

 

 

So then a policeman calling at your house requesting to come in

Do you ask him to unload his firearm and show clear

There's a massive problem with arming the police

No it stays in his holster.

Edited June 4, 2017 by ordnance

[saddler]

A UK police force already arms its officers on and off duty.

 

Aye....as I already stated

But not just the police....prison officers are armed off duty too

Edited June 4, 2017 by saddler

[Ollieollie]

Do people not accept that we have a massive problem with a good proportion of Muslims living on this island? It's not just the terrorism, either. I haven't heard of any Sikh grooming gangs, raping our children in most of the cities in the Uk.

Or controling schools to promote a closed Islamic education

[Cranfield]

For me there is only one answer to this problem ,and the solution can only come from the Muslim community,but it seems they are not willing to purge their own, untill they are we won't stop this hard measures make make us feel good In The short term it will only make matters worse in the long run.

 

This is an often expressed point of view, but what I can't understand is why is it assumed that "the Muslim community" know all the extremist/criminals in their area.

Do you know all the criminals in your area ?

Most people don't even know who lives 5 doors away.

 

As was posted earlier, when we had the IRA on the UK mainland we were not advocating all the Irish were deported, we accepted that the vast majority were law abiding people, why can't we accept the same about the Muslim community ?

[wandringstar]

even a non lethal bullet would stop an assailant, police should have guns in my opinion.

 

I think the public should be allowed one aswell, subject to training.

 

A rolling pin is no longer enough.

[saddler]

This is an often expressed point of view, but what I can't understand is why is it assumed that "the Muslim community" know all the extremist/criminals in their area.

Do you know all the criminals in your area ?

Most people don't even know who lives 5 doors away.

 

As was posted earlier, when we had the IRA on the UK mainland we were not advocating all the Irish were deported, we accepted that the vast majority were law abiding people, why can't we accept the same about the Muslim community ?

Maybe the difference was the Irish weren't of the mindset that anyone not of their faith could be legitimately killed in adherance to the writings in their "holy book".

Muslim ideology/religion is a small part of the POLITICAL doctrine of ISLAM

[Lloyd90]

Maybe the difference was the Irish weren't of the mindset that anyone not of their faith could be legitimately killed in adherance to the writings in their "holy book".

Muslim ideology/religion is a small part of the POLITICAL doctrine of ISLAM

Every single Muslim thinks that do they?

[neil w]

Many police officers, don't want to be armed with side arms. Over here, and I can see their point, what proceedings against them, when they use their firearm.

The government, has to stop, spending money on the work shy. And spend It on the military. So they can protect the citizens of the UK.

[Ollieollie]

This is an often expressed point of view, but what I can't understand is why is it assumed that "the Muslim community" know all the extremist/criminals in their area.

Do you know all the criminals in your area ?

Most people don't even know who lives 5 doors away.

 

As was posted earlier, when we had the IRA on the UK mainland we were not advocating all the Irish were deported, we accepted that the vast majority were law abiding people, why can't we accept the same about the Muslim community ?

The Muslim community is a lot more entwined and closer than ours, you can't compare the two

[saddler]

Every single Muslim thinks that do they?

It's written in the Quran....so if they follow their written magic book then they either think it or don't object to it being carried out

[digger]

How many I wonder have friends that are Muslim? Or are just making assumptions based on the Daily Mail ?

[AVB]

It should be noted that London cabbies offered people free rides home after the attack. Whereas I believe Uber put their prices up.

[toontastic]

It's written in the Quran....so if they follow their written magic book then they either think it or don't object to it being carried out

It's also quoted a number of times in the Bible about killing non believers.

[wandringstar]

It's also quoted a number of times in the Bible about killing non believers.

 

 

where? I have both old and new testament here now, please tell me the pages I need to look at, to qualify your post.

[digger]

Deuteronomy 13 and 17 advocate either stoning or use of the sword.

[Danger-Mouse]

where? I have both old and new testament here now, please tell me the pages I need to look at, to qualify your post.

 

Deuteronomy 17

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

 

Deuteronomy 13:

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

 

Numbers 31New International Version (NIV)

Vengeance on the Midianites

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

19 “Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives. 20 Purify every garment as well as everything made of leather, goat hair or wood.”

21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the soldiers who had gone into battle, “This is what is required by the law that the Lord gave Moses: 22 Gold, silver, bronze, iron, tin, lead 23 and anything else that can withstand fire must be put through the fire, and then it will be clean. But it must also be purified with the water of cleansing. And whatever cannot withstand fire must be put through that water. 24 On the seventh day wash your clothes and you will be clean. Then you may come into the camp.”

[Cranfield]

How many I wonder have friends that are Muslim? Or are just making assumptions based on the Daily Mail ?

 

I think this is half the problem with people expressing their opinion as though its a fact.

I know and have known for many years a large number of Muslims and although they are devout, they are not extremists, nor do they condone terrorist activities.

I will readily accept there are good and bad in all walks of life, but don't condemn the majority for the sins of the minority.

[ordnance]

Aye....as I already stated

But not just the police....prison officers are armed off duty too

Yes and x security forces politicians and some civilians, and all the things people are concerned about just don't happen.

 

 

 

Many police officers, don't want to be armed with side arms. Over here, and I can see their point, what proceedings against them, when they use their firearm.

Again how do the police manage in this part of the UK. I ask the question all the time no one seems to have a answer.

Edited June 4, 2017 by ordnance