New Pension age 68

[JohnfromUK]

I'm not being contrary just for the sake of argument, what I am trying to get across is that public expenditure in this country is astonishingly large and it is really easy to look at a wasteful spend of £38m and think that is a huge amount of money and a shocking waste, and it is, but in context of our overall public expenditure it is a tiny amount.

You are quite right - and the 'social' spending is even higher than the NHS. All this was covered in another thread recently. We also already have large borrowings

and getting larger by the day: the bottom line is that as a country, we are living above the level we are 'earning' - as situation that causes me great concern, not so much for my generation, but for the younger who (a) have to pay it back, or at least pay the interest on it, and (b) don't have a 'scrimp and save' culture that many of the older generations have/had (principally those who lived through the war).

 

See image in post 46 of this thread for government spending https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/363477-what-is-wrong-with-this-country/page-3

Edited October 19, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[matone]

..so,we have millions of young people without jobs or in rubbish jobs...but we`ll make older people work longer.......YEP,THAT REALLY MAKES SENSE !

 

We`re governed by idiots! (self helping idiots).

[JohnfromUK]

..so,we have millions of young people without jobs or in rubbish jobs...but we`ll make older people work longer.......YEP,THAT REALLY MAKES SENSE !

 

We`re governed by idiots! (self helping idiots).

To be fair, unemployment is lowest it has been for a long time.

 

You are right on the idiots though;

Working people have paid into National Insurance all their working lives - expecting to get a pension when they retire

This money hasn't been saved (as many other countries do - Google Norway sovereign wealth fund for example) to fund the pensions as a private pension would - it has been spent

'We' have also borrowed additional money ....... from other countries and spent that (and are now paying interest on the loans)

'We' sold most of our gold (as it happens at about the lowest point of the market) and spent that

'We' also had North Sea Oil - which brought in a lot of revenue - we spent that as well

 

Basically 'we' as a country have lived extravagantly and not saved ........

[Jason_ox]

Konie I know what you mean, I too am a heavy equipment mechanical engineer. All day slogging it out lifting pulling, pushing and rolling around on hard ground. I cant imagine doing this job at 68, you will be on deaths door, every joint in your body worn out. I believe there should be staggered retirement ages, one for as you put it tie jobs the other for manual labour jobs. I propose 58 being a good age to retire for manual labour government wont ever do it though.

[AVB]

Konie I know what you mean, I too am a heavy equipment mechanical engineer. All day slogging it out lifting pulling, pushing and rolling around on hard ground. I cant imagine doing this job at 68, you will be on deaths door, every joint in your body worn out. I believe there should be staggered retirement ages, one for as you put it tie jobs the other for manual labour jobs. I propose 58 being a good age to retire for manual labour government wont ever do it though.

Are you serious? Whats stopping you taking a different, less strenuous, job when you reach 58. Stacking shelves in Tesco or working in B&Q? You would still be earning more than you would get on state pension.

Edited October 19, 2017 by AVB

[oldypigeonpopper]

They can make the retirement age anything they like but a lot of men and women just could not physically do there jobs at that age. It just means they save paying out for a few years so people will be on sick or some other benefits for years.

 

Until they can make people fit and able it’s not going to work.

hello, your right figgy but i will add how many years retirement will those that finish at 67/68 paying all that in for what 5/8/10 years and then die or at most so worn out and cannot enjoy some years ahead

[Cannon]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4970738/amp/Mandarin-oversaw-pension-age-rise-retires-61.html

 

The hypocrisy is unbelievable

[JohnfromUK]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4970738/amp/Mandarin-oversaw-pension-age-rise-retires-61.html

 

The hypocrisy is unbelievable

He will now take on several consultancies .... to top up his pension.

[Gordon R]

Sadly, I have met Robert Deveruex and had dealings with him. The kindest thing I could say is "lightweight".

[39TDS]

It would have done if you had contributed more. And you are moaning.

Are you a tie worker?

[yickdaz]

bunch of out of touch pen pushing suits who have never worked for a living, how many people will physically be able to do the job they do now at that age, i can see myself fitting bathrooms at that age not

[Lord Geordie]

 

What you describe is a very real problem and why those who work in an overtly manual occupation should plan for retirement much more diligently than those who drive a desk for a living.

The trouble with that is the wage difference between the two sectors, On NMW £7.50 or there about! It's difficult to plan for anything other than rent, council tax and energy, food bills, let alone the future! Private rent is circa £650+ pcm and council tax band A approx £100 so £750 is just a roof over your head. Add to that your £30+ water bill, your gas and electric bill and food and clothing. Your sum is circa £1000 pcm. At £7.50 ph over your 37 hr week you have an annual income of around £12.000 then you have income tax, pension, and NI to pay which leaves you pretty much flat broke!

 

I have paid NI since leaving school in 87 which was supposed to help in some part toward a state pension. Now there is no longer such to speak of, do I get those contributions reimbursed? I am lucky in the respect I find it cheaper to mortgage than to rent! But find it rather annoying that the retirement age keeps getting moved, (for everyone rather than just myself) I am paying into a works pension, paid into NI and pay income tax! And am now told I am to carry on working not just to 66 but now they want to squeeze another 24 month out of my working life. Do I get those 24 month added on to my life after I retire too?

 

Let's face it, dodgy deals, and poor financial management by those in the halls of power wiped out or pension pot to start with, then they made us effectively pay twice for our pensions! And now they want us to carry on working a further 3 years (up to now) in total? If this was France or Greece the government buildings would be smouldering ruins.

 

Just an observation!

Edited October 19, 2017 by Lord Geordie

[Old farrier]

Hi

The main problem is

When the whole state pension system was set up there were 20 people paying in for every one that drew out and virtually no inflation this =profit

 

Now there are probably about 5 = loss

The government never invested the profit and just used the national insurance money for other things

At this moment in time 50% of the money paid to local council as rates goes to pay council pensions

It's easy to say pay more in for your own personal pension however we must remember 45 years ago starting wages were probably apprentice money £7 a week maybe £9 one third saved equates to £150 a year

This investment has been hammered by various governments and stock markets crashes and major financial difficulties coupled with high inflation

I'm sure there's a solution but it will be painful and even worse 30 years from now

Just my thoughts

 

All the best

Of

[grrclark]

The trouble with that is the wage difference between the two sectors, On NMW £7.50 or there about! It's difficult to plan for anything other than rent, council tax and energy, food bills, let alone the future! Private rent is circa £650+ pcm and council tax band A approx £100 so £750 is just a roof over your head. Add to that your £30+ water bill, your gas and electric bill and food and clothing. Your sum is circa £1000 pcm. At £7.50 ph over your 37 hr week you have an annual income of around £12.000 then you have income tax, pension, and NI to pay which leaves you pretty much flat broke!

 

I have paid NI since leaving school in 87 which was supposed to help in some part toward a state pension. Now there is no longer such to speak of, do I get those contributions reimbursed? I am lucky in the respect I find it cheaper to mortgage than to rent! But find it rather annoying that the retirement age keeps getting moved, (for everyone rather than just myself) I am paying into a works pension, paid into NI and pay income tax! And am now told I am to carry on working not just to 66 but now they want to squeeze another 24 month out of my working life. Do I get those 24 month added on to my life after I retire too?

 

Let's face it, dodgy deals done by those in the halls of power wiped out or pension pot to start with, then they made us effectively pay twice for our pensions! And now they want us to carry on working a further 3 years (up to now) in total? If this was France or Greece the government buildings would be smouldering ruins.

 

Just an observation!

I don't suggest for a second that planning for your future is easy, far from it and there are many factors involved, it isn't simple.

 

It is wrong to say that dodgy deals squandered all the money, our public expenditure in this country is staggeringly high and yet we demand more.

 

We have a remarkable ability to look beyond the realities of the scale of our public expenditure and simply demand that the government should do more.

 

Can you think of one thread on here that was ever started with the words, I'm really angry, I think we should pay more tax?

 

Everyday there is a thread berating the government for not doing enough, yet where does that money come from. Across the UK only something like 15-20% of the population are net wealth creators, everyone else including every single public service worker in any shape or form is a net consumer, or at best neutral.

 

That is not to devalue public service workers in any way at all, it is simply a fact of economics.

 

We demand higher rates of pay yet we complain about the costs of goods and services, but the two are inextricably linked.

 

The problems are not unique to this country either, throughout the Western world and developed economies we are all seeing the same problems.

 

There is no single easy answer and by no stretch of the imagination are our successive governments blameless, no matter what colour or persuasion, but this foolishly naive obsession that our governemnt is so incompetent to be unable to manage something simple is ridiculous.

 

The biggest single problem this country has is naive fools with crazy expectations and a massive sense of entitlement and they get to vote.

[Lord Geordie]

I don't suggest for a second that planning for your future is easy, far from it and there are many factors involved, it isn't simple.

 

It is wrong to say that dodgy deals squandered all the money, our public expenditure in this country is staggeringly high and yet we demand more.

 

We have a remarkable ability to look beyond the realities of the scale of our public expenditure and simply demand that the government should do more.

 

Can you think of one thread on here that was ever started with the words, I'm really angry, I think we should pay more tax?

 

Everyday there is a thread berating the government for not doing enough, yet where does that money come from. Across the UK only something like 15-20% of the population are net wealth creators, everyone else including every single public service worker in any shape or form is a net consumer, or at best neutral.

 

That is not to devalue public service workers in any way at all, it is simply a fact of economics.

 

We demand higher rates of pay yet we complain about the costs of goods and services, but the two are inextricably linked.

 

The problems are not unique to this country either, throughout the Western world and developed economies we are all seeing the same problems.

 

There is no single easy answer and by no stretch of the imagination are our successive governments blameless, no matter what colour or persuasion, but this foolishly naive obsession that our governemnt is so incompetent to be unable to manage something simple is ridiculous.

 

The biggest single problem this country has is naive fools with crazy expectations and a massive sense of entitlement and they get to vote.

I don't feel I have demanded anything other that what was promised in the past!

 

My expectations were merely within the limit of such information. I was told I would retire at 65. It's not wrong to be aggrieved with the change to that surely?

 

As for the rise in pay and in living costs that's a different kettle of fish, I understand in part what your saying, but a rise of £1 per hour does not pay for the rise in fuel, food, rent, council tax? Infact that £1 is swallowed up in only part of those raises. A wage rises by 1% while the cost of living increases by 7% then it's not benefiting the working man.

 

A man or woman should be able to go to work and be able (on full time hours) to pay for the basics. But unfortunately this is not the case for those earning the NMW. So they work overtime if they can get it! But as they earn more! Their income tax, NI and pension fund increases also, to a point where working an extra 10 hours per week accounts for around a £40 increase so effectively working for half the normal wage. And seeing very little benefit.

 

I feel really sorry for those who struggle to make ends meet. And currently am trying to help someone make ends meet while they are paying off the debt on their home. I am in a position to help with small gestures "food and the occasional trip out" now and again. But the daily raises in the cost of everything has started to make it difficult even for myself recently. I work full time on NMW and until recently have been quite comfortable! But recently the increased prices are starting to make it a little tight. I don't mind paying my way, paying my taxes and dues! I understand you can't get out, without putting in. I am doing this! Once my mortgage is paid off, again I will be in a great position to help, and more than just ONE person. Granted, I could put that money toward a better pension for myself! But then those I chose to help currently would fall to a point they can not carry on. Once I am mortgage free, I can then start looking into investing in a better future for my Son. That was the whole reason behind buying the house so he has a secure future. His own home once I am gone, if needs be he could even let a room out for revenue. But I hope to leave some form of revenue for him also. But having had no meaningful pay rise, and watching prices rise on a daily basis, its hard to plan anything. The added years until retirement come like a slap to the face To many people in a similar situation.

[evolution380]

Not having a dig here but I have a few mates who lay tarmac, are groundworkers or brickies etc. who usually rib me for being a pencil pusher etc. I've worked manual down at my old mans scrapyard before turning 16 and he worked me to the bone to instil hard work into me.

 

If there was a lack of jobs i'd find or make one before he made me strip tyres by hand for the rest of the day, hated it at the time but glad for it now.

 

ANYWAY i digress...

 

I know manual labour my dad wanted me to avoid it which is why he gave me the **** jobs all the time. But just cause you have a desk job doesn't mean it isn't demanding, maybe not on the body but mentally it can be very demanding.

 

I was up at 4am this morning, walked the dog and in the office for 5am. Got home at 7pm had dinner, spent an hour with my girlfriend before firing up the laptop and I'm working until 4am having a shower, walking the dog and driving to work to get a deadline out even though my holiday should start tomorrow and i've had to delay it.

 

I can't remember the last time I worked 9-5 infact my employer would probably be in trouble with the modern slavery act if my timesheet truly reflected the hours I sometimes do to meet project/client deadlines.

 

It sounds petty but my back and eyes do no good sat still for double figure hours most days i'll be glad to retire at 55-60 and won't feel bad for it, i'll have made the relevant sacrifices to justify it.

 

I literally have to periodically give myself 5mins every few hours to read something as i feel like my head is going to explode at times and just need that short break to forget about the impossible deadlines I'm working to.

 

Back in a few hours I guess, must crack on.

[Konnie]

Your in heavy lifting konnie?

Are you a contracter or self employed thats taken a good wage for years and not paid into a private pension or are you with a company that offered a share matching scheme?

 

Niether family owned firm, money was good when I was I training, then next generation let it go, now for sale, no pensions,sick pay etc, the old style company that won't go forward.

[100milesaway]

Since joining the EU, Poland has been able to KNOCK 7 years off their retirement age. How the hell does that work. Their official retirement age is 60.... Maybe we should all move to Poland... from Auntie.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Since joining the EU, Poland has been able to KNOCK 7 years off their retirement age. How the hell does that work. Their official retirement age is 60.... Maybe we should all move to Poland... from Auntie. hello

hello auntie, 60 might be good but how much do they get ? i would advocate to retire in uk and once you get your pension it should go further as the cost of living there being cheaper, or not, my friend lives in Estonia, average salary 1000 euro per month, pension 350 euro per month

[gemini52]

i'd also like to add, so ok they don't want to pay me my pension, then give me back all the N.I contributions and income tax and i'll look after myself

I retired in may this year,was told you need thirty five full years contribution,it worked out i had forty five years,i asked one of the advisers i spoke to when sorting things out before i recieved the pension what happens to the ten years contributions then do i get a bit extra, .her reply was no it makes no differance it just gets swallowed up.

[grrclark]

Since joining the EU, Poland has been able to KNOCK 7 years off their retirement age. How the hell does that work. Their official retirement age is 60.... Maybe we should all move to Poland... from Auntie.

In 15-20 years Poland will have the same problem.

 

In fact Poland is a monster crash in the making, a very polarised country in terms of wealth versus poverty.

[oldypigeonpopper]

I retired in may this year,was told you need thirty five full years contribution,it worked out i had forty five years,i asked one of the advisers i spoke to when sorting things out before i recieved the pension what happens to the ten years contributions then do i get a bit extra, .her reply was no it makes no differance it just gets swallowed up.

hello, yes i asked the same 3 years ago, then you will not get a pension if your retired early after paying in 35 years, its a no win situation, and i had 49 years

[oldypigeonpopper]

In 15-20 years Poland will have the same problem.

 

In fact Poland is a monster crash in the making, a very polarised country in terms of wealth versus poverty.

hello, i think your right, makes you wonder how many poles have now left to work in other countries,

[ph5172]

I have a few mates on the tools and a few have now started to plan for retirement they have been told that they will need to pay a massive sum every month to have a half decent chance of making a good pension pot.

 

They all say they didnt pay into private pensions because they were happy with the big pay cheque at the end of the month and now regret not putting a bit by, not so much regret but wish they would have been advised a little better, One has decided that he will sell his big house come retirement and move into a smaller one, another has decided to invest in property as he will at least make a bit of a return come retirement. some are banking on selling the business and assets or handing it over and keeping a share

 

 

I think that the one bit of advice i would give to anyone who starts on day 1 would be start a pension, even if its only a few quid a month!

[JohnfromUK]

I think that the one bit of advice i would give to anyone who starts on day 1 would be start a pension, even if its only a few quid a month!

 

100% agree; the money you invest early makes the biggest difference long term