Lloyd90 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I’ve got a terrible decision to make gents ... I took a risk on the “hernia puppy” recently from a very well bred litter ... well it turned out the hernia was not a problem in the slightest ... unfortunately I seem to have won the bad luck lottery. Couple days after getting the pup we noticed when he peed he had a bit of fluid coming from his bum. We were puzzled and a post on FB working gundog group advised it was either his anal glands or just some bad stomach from the new move. We picked him up on Thursday 29th and noticed this on the Saturday 31st. Well I took a video of it after this and was messaged by a vet on the group who was incredibly helpful. She said it looked like an incredibly rare case of urethrorectal fistula ... speaking to other vets and my vet there are only ever around 10 recorded cases we believe, and this would be the first ever case in a spaniel. Issue is ... he now requires surgery... quoted that it could be “upto £6,000” ... although it’s so rare that the issue is that’s a total guess and they simply don’t know the cost, and also that they need to find a specialist at one of the big vet colleges that would even attempt such a procedure on a 9 week old pup. We have 5 weeks free kennel club insurance (4 weeks left now) which covers upto £4,000. That’s IF the kennel club agree that he didn’t have the condition before their insurance started ... and even if they do cover the £570 already incurred for tests, the cost of the Operation could be £6k+ up to god knows what ... I did speak to them and they said IF they accept the current claim and we take out a lifetime policy they should cover his future op ... if they accept our claim ... but they can’t confirm that over the phone ... at a cost of £56 per month with us paying £160 excess and 10% of any fees. Or £70 a month with just the £160 excess... The breeder has been very supportive and I genuinely don’t believe he knew otherwise he wouldn’t have sold him, the pup was his wife’s fav and she wanted to keep him but he kept all the bitches. The breeders vet also said he was fit and healthy when he left, we informed him and he was amazed, said he’s never seen it before and in his lifetime he will never see this condition again. He has offered to take the pup back and give me a refund... but we all know what that means for the poor little sod. Really dont know what to do now... logically I think take the pup back, get my money back like offered and try to claim the £570 vet fees off the insurance company. my GF is already not speaking to me for saying that’s even an option ... My head is screwed!! Could spend all that money and go through it all and he’s absolutely useless in the field anyways!! Or he could be the dog of a lifetime :( absolutely heart broken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Oh and just to make it all better, they might have to break his pelvis to do the op ... spoke to the breeder and he said that’s a huge no no, it’ll be horrendous recovery if they need to do that and he will get early arthritis and be in a bad way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Hard as it may be you should get rid of the dog. Having a dog with ailments from the start will drain you mentally and physically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiny tim Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 i agree with jdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Tell it to my GF ... she’s already not speaking to me 7 minutes ago, JDog said: Hard as it may be you should get rid of the dog. Having a dog with ailments from the start will drain you mentally and physically. I know it’s the sensible thing to do mate. If they say they got to break his pelvis I won’t put him through that. Not sure I want to put him through it all anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Your GF will get over it, not so sure that the dog would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Mate so sorry to hear your problems with your new dog but as JDog said it will drain you mentally and physically, and possibly financially, get ride of now before you become to emotionally attached. Once again I feel so sorry for you and your GF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Tell your girlfriend if she pays for the op you'll give it a go, but if not it's back to the breeder for a refund, think with your head not your heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delwint Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Gutted for you. Horrible situation to find yourself in. And personally sitting here with both mine at my feet. I’d take it back to the breeder. Your missus is saying exactly what mine probably would I don’t think she’s seeing the whole picture. Once again I’m sorry pal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Just now, panoma1 said: Tell your girlfriend if she pays for the op you'll give it a go, but if not it's back to the breeder for a refund, think with your head not your heart! She’s already said she’d pay the ongoing insurance fees of £70 a month (That’s if they even accept to cover us and honour the claim and on-going costs) ... despite her claim, I told her before getting the dog that he is a working dog and I’ve bought him to be a gundog, if he didn’t make th grade he would be going... although I think it doesn’t hit as hard if you have to rehome an older dog to a nice loving pet Home VS a 9 week puppy being PTS ... its wrecking my head thinking we could go through that and he’s absolutely useless anyways. Or he could have long lasting impact of the surgery. If they have to crack the pelvis he will have arthritis very early and be in on-going pain ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Hound Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Just googled urethrorectal fistula Not nice. Surgery in humans is only 25% successful. Can't as yet find out too much about the symptom's. Talk about a rock and a hard place. It would appear that if surgery is attempted and if it is successful I doubt if it would ever make a working dog. The surgery is extreme and can putting an animal though that be justified. (ignoring the cost) Can a compromise be made. Sending it back to the breeder means it been put down. Could you talk to the breeder get your cash back, and keep the pup as a pet until such time as the dog lets you know its had enough? Heartbreaking what ever you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delwint Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Just showed this post to the wife and even she said it’s not fair to the pup to put it through having it’s pelvis cracked, and the pain and suffering it will have to go through to possibly never be right and she’d take it back. And she’s as soft as hell with the dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Sorry to hear this mate. IMO the only option is a bit of tough love and return him to the breeder. I know it's devastating, but it will be better for all concerned in the long run - it just won;t feel like it at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Howling Hound said: Just googled urethrorectal fistula Not nice. Surgery in humans is only 25% successful. Can't as yet find out too much about the symptom's. Talk about a rock and a hard place. It would appear that if surgery is attempted and if it is successful I doubt if it would ever make a working dog. The surgery is extreme and can putting an animal though that be justified. (ignoring the cost) Can a compromise be made. Sending it back to the breeder means it been put down. Could you talk to the breeder get your cash back, and keep the pup as a pet until such time as the dog lets you know its had enough? Heartbreaking what ever you do I wouldn’t keep him without the OP mate ... bacteria from he colon can go down the extra tube into the bladder, which is a strike environment and cause him huge infection. They tested for this and currently he had no infection but have to keep an eye on him. 3 minutes ago, Delwint said: Just showed this post to the wife and even she said it’s not fair to the pup to put it through having it’s pelvis cracked, and the pain and suffering it will have to go through to possibly never be right and she’d take it back. And she’s as soft as hell with the dogs I won’t put him through that mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 Terrible position but the pup has to go back to the breeder. If you had known about this pre purchase you would not have bought it and the breeder , being a decent bloke, would not have sold him to you. Take the emotion out of this, difficult I know, and you are simply going back to square one. It is right for you, the dealer and frankly also the pup. Just my view not being where you are. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I'm afraid I'm with Dave at kelton. The sooner you do that the better I am afraid. I've spent a fortune on my dogs over the years but am sure in this case that is what I would do. The little pup is not going to have a good life one way or the other. Fully understand how you feel. Eight week old pup or 15yr old, having to make this decison never gets any easier I can tell you, so I believe we all feel for you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I love my dogs, but would not put a pup through that. I would take him back to the breeder. We took a dog back when a dog we bought to be a gundog on vet inspection next day was found to have a major heart murmer which meant he could not be exerted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I know they say a dog is for life but what life will it have? Thing is you haven't been given any guarantees about the dogs future prospects after the operation so that alone would make my mind up. We're all in different circumstances finance wise, a customer once told me of a couple she knew that took in a rescue cat and up to that point had spent 5k on it! Another customer was telling me he and his wife have spent 9k on one of their dogs as it was 'part of the family', even though I was at work I still said I believed he was nuts but if he had the money then fair play, he told me he had the money for the first op but the second op they had to sell a load of stuff to afford it! The reason for these conversations was because I was once in the same position as you, had a cocker spaniel that was simply not right from the start. Dry eyes requiring drops, only one ball was present, the other simply never fell and would require an op but what did it for me was him losing weight to the point he'd growl at anyone when near his food, Vet said she believed his pancreas had packed up thus requiring special food and daily enzyme supplements, my eldest lad was in tears as he loved that dog but he got over it, I love dogs but even I know when to say that's it even though we do with a heavy heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeonshooter22 Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) It was me who spoke to you on Facebook about KC insurance. Call them before you make any rash decisions or worry about them not paying, as they told me on the phone if they'd cover Harley or not, their under writers are in the office next door. Mind his was a injury not a condition he was born with but please do call them, they're great even when I cried down the phone thinking my 4 month Cocker tore his cruciate and was messed for life. Everyone can comment, but only you can make a decision. IF it were me, I'd ask for some money back from the breeder, even though it isn't his fault, it will help cover the costs and lets be honest the puppy isn't worth £500 now. I'd then keep the dog and do everything I could to fix him, as i KNOW i couldn't give any puppy back as i'm a soft **** Hes so young and if he needs his pelvis broke, bones heal back nicely at that age, quoted by my vet, if my cocker broke his leg 6 weeks crate rest and it would be on its way to recovery where as a 5yr old dog would need alot more vet help.Has the vet said its curable? My cocker was on crate rest for 6 weeks at 4 months old, he coped brilliantly so yes it isn't nice putting a puppy through surgery and broken bones, but they do cope better than you think. Will he be useless? He could be a pet for your other half (maybe he could do low level beating or something and she could get involved?) and you could get something else - as said, i'm a soft **** so i'd work away around it. Best of luck with your decision. Aimee Edited April 5, 2018 by Pigeonshooter22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeksofdoom Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Do the decent thing and put the poor thing down and get your refund from the breeder. Its just a pup you'll get over it, you'll pick up another pup. Let it be a lesson to you, next time pick a healthy pup from the litter. And as for your girlfriend not talking to you, you can get rid of her and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Such an awful decision to make, and certainly don't envy you. Putting the money aside, I think you need to speak to a vet that would do this operation to find out the realistic outcome. To me, it seems a little unfair to put a 9 week old puppy through, what sounds like, a major operation, and not something I'd want to do, besides you'd potentially end up with a dog that cannot be used for what you bought him for. And for your GF - Not quite the same, but there's someone who I work with who had a puppy, and at 15(ish) weeks old was run over by a car and died, that same family now have another dog, which they love as much as that one. Sometimes, it's just not meant to be. Good luck with your decision. All the best. Hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 I am sorry to hear about your puppies problem and with you making what you say is a difficult decision , to be honest the only decision you need to make is either putting the pup down or taking it back and start again , I think its a case of being cruel to be kind if you go down the operation road , no one really know the outcome ,but if carried out , your pup could be on medication for life and never going to be fit enough to be a working dog , GOOD LUCK with whatever you decide to do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 This animal has been bred to have a high and active drive that needs both mental physical exercise . The outlook from what you describe is very poor and to be honest I.M.O.the vet should have advised you to have it P.T.S. Its the kindest thing you can do for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Agree with forum if you can give the wee dog back i would before you get to attached to the wee thing I Know your head properly all over the place last december my 3 yr old big lab got knocked down long story short i payed 4000 grand get hes leg fixed but i had him from a pup and had trained him hes still going strong on ducks and pigeons so dont want to sound bad be better for you to get rid of the wee pup GOOD LUCK with what you decide mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Thanks lads, I’ve said he needs to go back, she’s heart broken. The specialist vet is ringing tomorrow and I will confirm what kind of trauma it would put him through... she needs to know whether it’s a simple fix or a big op. The breeder has said if he has him back he won’t put him right down but he will take him to his vet who looks after all the spaniel field triallers dogs and he has said he has a payment plan for the OP... Im not naive... I think his story is to help me out with the Mrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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