Side by Side Club

[theshootist]

On 05/01/2021 at 21:11, nabbers said:

Time I asked to climb aboard!    Here is my Charles Bosworth Boxlock Ejector on a recent farmers shoot here in The Yorkshire Dales 

 

What fantastic ground to walk over. You simply can't beat a side by side for that. 

[Lloyd90]

On 05/01/2021 at 21:11, nabbers said:

Time I asked to climb aboard!    Here is my Charles Bosworth Boxlock Ejector on a recent farmers shoot here in The Yorkshire Dales 

 

Walked up rabbits? 

[nabbers]

14 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Walked up rabbits? 

A boggy corner  of Yorkshire Moorland used to graze sheep and thrashed over by adjoining shoots to squeeze out any Pheasants that might be hiding there.    We enjoy a one or two visits a season but its rare to get more than one shot off,  there is the odd rabbit, the odd pheasant as well as  Hares and Woodcock that we leave alone.     Something magical about being out there with a side by side and thats reward enough in itself.   

[Velocette]

Thought I'd join in the fun with my set of SxS shotguns. These are from left to right an IJ56 non ejector, a later IJ 56 with more decoration and finally an IJ26 non ejector. The first one has been very heavily used and has little finish left on it , just the patina of regular use but still rock tight and with perfect bores. The middle one had been, I think stored in a wet sack for ten years and was well rusted on the outside but perfect within so I just cleaned it and browned the barrels. The last one, on the right, is a bit special. An IJ26 with the Anson and Deeley type action is of far higher quality and in almost unused condition. After cleaning the solidified grease from its innards the gun functions beautifully. Some of the images show the neatness of the workmanship and the unusual proofing marks. For some perverse reason these seem to fit me a treat and are all I use these days.  

The IJ26 pictures.

Forgot to say that the most expensive one was the IJ26 from Ryedale auctions last month at £40 !

[enfieldspares]

Everyone should, at some time, own these four guns. A Greener GP, an AYA Cosmos, a Webley bolt action .410", a Baikal side-by-side.

People "knock" Baikal guns but they do the job and do out without fuss. I had one of the ejector IJ-26 guns some years ago (they are quite scarce) and have just bought another sight unseen out of Southam's. They are the IJ-26 IMHO the best of the Baikal guns. Cocking indicators too and engraved on the action with Made in USSR.

I enjoyed the pictures and, yes, all those IJ-26 guns are the old 2 3/4" Magnum proof. This cartridge for those younger than my sixty-three years were loaded as a stock item by Eley for the old British £"standard" 3" paper case guns. As when the newer 3" Magnum came in there was confusion and nothing then suitable for those old "Brit" 3" guns.

I am told nowadays that the Proof Houses insist any old English chambered "standard" 3" gun for reproof gets a 3" Magnum reproof? Which usually wrecks them. Daft!

Edited January 7, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Velocette]

Ah yes, I forgot to mention the cocking indicators sat neatly each side of the top lever. I have just parted with my Greener GP to make space, a cracking gun !

[bumpy22]

Great guns the Russian purdeys. I remember the Baikal cartridges they had black cases if I remember correctly. Awful things but often came up cheap as the guns do. Very agricultural but I remember shoot a lot with mine

[Dougy]

I like your chair. 👍

[enfieldspares]

Now to "knock" the Baikal I'll say this. On some and the IJ-26 is guilty as charged there's too much drop. Far too much. Apparently I was once told as whilst, yes, it is a shotgun it actually was intended mostly that buyers would be using it lying prone or kneeling behind cover against ground game and/or deer (or even wolves).

Remember this is the Soviet 1960s through to 1980s when private ownership in the USSR or rifled barrel weapons was strictly regulated and controlled. The nearest thing therefore to a rifle for a farmer (who had a deer or wolf problem) for them was going only ever to be a smoothbore firing slug or lettered shot.

So the drop is so that it can be used as if it were a smoothbore double rifle with letter shot (buckshot) or slug. I don't know how true this is for these Baikals. But certainly for shotguns used lying prone (Powell's of Birmingham made some for use lying prone for Northern Canada) you make the stock with very little cast and a with more drop.

If the OP gets on his belly inside of his best carpet with some snap caps he may well find that there is some truth to the drop stock on the IJ-26 making it easier to use that way.

Edited January 7, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

Smart! I’ve only ever owned one Baikel, but that was an OU. It had been around long before I owned it and I still in use today by the person I have it to.

Anyone who knocks them really doesn’t know what they’re talking about. 

[Velocette]

18 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Now to "knock" the Baikal I'll say this. On some and the IJ-26 is guilty as charged there's too much drop. Far too much. Apparently I was once told as whilst, yes, it is a shotgun it actually was intended mostly that buyers would be using it lying prone or kneeling behind cover against ground game and/or deer (or even wolves).

Remember this is the Soviet 1960s through to 1980s when private ownership in the USSR or rifled barrel weapons was strictly regulated and controlled. The nearest thing therefore to a rifle for a farmer (who had a deer or wolf problem) for them was going only ever to be a smoothbore firing slug or lettered shot.

So the drop is so that it can be used as if it were a smoothbore double rifle with letter shot (buckshot) or slug. I don't know how true this is but certainly for shotguns used lying prone (Powell's of Birmingham made some for use lying prone for Northern Canada) you make the stop with more drop. If the OP gets on his belly inside of his best carpet with some snap caps he may well find that there is some truth to the drop stock on the IJ-26 making it easier to use that way.

Absolutely right about the drop and if you look carefully on the middle gun you'll see the ebony comb raiser I made to counteract this to a degree. Someone had removed virtually all the comb on that one and the addition has made it useable.

[wymberley]

Didn't want to sidetrack the current 'only one gun' thread. The majority of the 'one guns' are anything but SbSs and although in mentioning it, the member gave just one make/model as being under valued when I think in reality this possibly refers to all SbSs. I acknowledge that the 702 that I recently bought is not a popular configuration, but still can't believe the amount I paid for it - didn't even haggle. My 700 has just been sold on my behalf and I know not exactly how much for, but the label price was way above what I paid for the 702 because of the more usual set-up even though the 702 was in the marginally better condition - although both were sublime.

Although it does seem to me that SbSs are having a minor revival, in view of the second sentence above, what do we think the future holds for our proper guns?

[Centrepin]

 

I think those of us that like them, there will always be a market and they'll always be used. Its just that newcomers are more or less pushed into the OE and never get the opportunity to use a SBS.

 

[JohnfromUK]

25 minutes ago, wymberley said:

what do we think the future holds for our proper guns?

I think a key driver there will be availability of suitable cartridges. 

Currently we can still get lead in 2 1/2". 

Steel in 2 1/2" is (I believe) available, but currently difficult to find - especially with non plastic wads.  I have not heard any reports on how 'good' it is.

[Mr.C]

I am also very worried about what I will be able to use in my Damascus barrelled sbs. 

[kevin55]

12 hours ago, Mr.C said:

I am also very worried about what I will be able to use in my Damascus barrelled sbs. 

Likewise, though this article is interesting:

 

https://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/shooting-with-steel-instead-of-lead-shot-1-6702877

[Centrepin]

1 hour ago, kevin55 said:

Likewise, though this article is interesting:

 

https://www.sportingshooter.co.uk/features/shooting-with-steel-instead-of-lead-shot-1-6702877

Interesting read, especially concerning Damascus (which I don't currently own)

One thing that caught my attention

 

Quality steel is already available in the UK.

The gentleman covers a lot of fine points, I'd like to hear more from these non lead countries 

[JohnfromUK]

It is an interesting article.  What isn't clear is the chamber length.  It seems to me that the biggest problem is 2 1/2 inch chambers - followed by fibre wads - neither of which gets mention.

The idea of a 35m range limit doesn't greatly bother me - I would very rarely encounter anything past that ........ but will upset a lot of people.

[wymberley]

5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is an interesting article.  What isn't clear is the chamber length.  It seems to me that the biggest problem is 2 1/2 inch chambers - followed by fibre wads - neither of which gets mention.

The idea of a 35m range limit doesn't greatly bother me - I would very rarely encounter anything past that ........ but will upset a lot of people.

I'd be a tad surprised if at least one - if not all - of the guns mentioned in Kevin's link weren't 2&1/2"

[Walker570]

On 01/12/2019 at 20:15, London Best said:

Yep, that was the way of it.

Now with interchangeables we can choose.  BUT  that throws upo all sorts of choices and arguments and very few shooters actually do a pattern test on their guns so have no idea where the selected chokes actually fall.

[JohnfromUK]

13 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I'd be a tad surprised if at least one - if not all - of the guns mentioned in Kevin's link weren't 2&1/2"

I agree they would have started that way - but they may have been lengthened - quite a lot of guns exported in recent times to the USA have been - and of those most are re-proofed (as UK proof rules require though it's not a requirement in some countries I believe). 

Steel is (I'm told, though have not seen any myself) available in 2 1/2" but when I was told this, ONLY in plastic wad types.  I know there are now 'degradable' wads (what they are made of I'm not quite sure) - but not sure if those are available yet on 2 1/2".

I'm in no hurry at present.  I won't be shooting again this season due to Covid rules.  I have (and generally use) a 2 3/4" AyA which is OK (open chokes) for standard steel - so I have a usable solution to shoot.  My hope is that something will come along in time that will enable me to use my old guns - which of course for now I can still do with lead.

[Walker570]

I have two side byes , a BSA 12 gauge which was my grandfathers, believed about 1/2 and full and then a 16 gauge Army and Navy which I know has a pretty tight left hand barrel because I have patterned it.  Both will pull stuff down if I do my job and I am not thinkling at the time, do I have the correct choke in for this shot etc etc etc etc etc.  Put it in the pattern.

[Gunman]

The plastic shot cup is to stop the steel shot from physical contact with the barrel wall .I have seem a fair few older and modern guns with badly scored barrels because of steel shot and no shot cup .

 

[theshootist]

On 12/01/2021 at 10:32, Gunman said:

The plastic shot cup is to stop the steel shot from physical contact with the barrel wall .I have seem a fair few older and modern guns with badly scored barrels because of steel shot and no shot cup .

 

Or from a failed shot cup? Fire enough shells and eventually you will have a shell that doesn't function perfectly. 

[London Best]

6 minutes ago, theshootist said:

Or from a failed shot cup? Fire enough shells and eventually you will have a shell that doesn't function perfectly. 

Which is a fat lot of use if it knacks your barrel.