alcohol & gun license

[kiffy]

hey folks,  bit of a hard topic to discuss and one I think I need to and one im sure has or will effect a lot of our members here...   have any of you had experience or known of anyone who has had experience with alcohol problems and holding shotgun & firearms licenses? 

a bit of a broad ranging question and one im posting looking for genuine replies (feel free to PM me if easier) and im not posting here looking for sympathy in any shape or form for myself I simply want  honesty from like minded souls... I've since last July had a lot going on in my life, with my own health and my families health and its taken its toll... im drinking most nights and drinking way to much.. not enough that its making me think silly things, quite the opposite really as my life's pretty ok, at the moment i just had some stuff that I turned to drink for and now my life's getting back to normal (ish!) I cant seem to cope without alcohol

I want and am probably going to see my doctor this week but I have concerns over my licenses if I go to them... I know im ok to hold them but will they believe me...  I guess its a thing a lot, of license holders who may have undiagnosed depression or depressive tendencies and are afraid to seek help in case they loose their license...   no easy answer I think.  I think the one positive I have is that my gp shoots

 

[Ultrastu]

First step is recognising the issue (you seem to have done that .) The rest you just need a bit of guidance with .

Good luck mate .and dont be afraid to seek help ..

[billytheghillie]

you say your GP shoots, but is he a alcoholic?

[PPP]

Good for you Kiffy, very brave and hats off to you noticing you have a problem.  I would suggest looking into non GP based support networks first, if you can solve the problem without going ‘on record’ it can only be a good thing 

[bruno22rf]

Knowing that you have a ,potentially serious, problem and accepting it is of your own doing is a huge step - you are still in control so you can take some comfort in that. Alcohol is usually an avenue we go down to escape problems that we cannot, or will not, accept or address so you should take a good honest look at your life and decide what needs to be corrected alongside reducing your reliance on Alcohol - find an escape from situations where drinking has become habitual. Speak to your Doctor or, better still , go to an anonymous meeting so no records are being kept. 

[Vince Green]

Your doctor won't do anything, because there is no magic cure. You can't get patches or whatever like you would with smoking. My best mate died from it and the best the doctor could say was "its a very common problem" beyond that the medical profession did nothing to help him

The only person who can make you stop is you, and the only way to do it is the hard way. You have taken the first big step, you have acknowledged you have a problem. Now you have to get really tough with yourself 

That is not some smart **** answer its the hard truth.  AA is a better route because you get support and also because you realise you are not the only one in the world going through it.

The trouble now is your doctor has a duty to disclose anything you tell him to your FEO, that to me is counter productive

I know where you live,  pretty much anyway. I'm a sort of a long distance local, If you want to talk to me off forum PM me and I will be happy to tell you more, I can help because I have had some very hands on experience in the past.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Vince Green

[Dekers]

Crumbs, you are a brave man and I wish you well!

[rimmie]

Good for you for seeking help before it gets worse.

 

you can get a prescribed drug that will make you VERY sick if you drink alcohol. It does work. (Watched a documentary on alcoholism a year or so ago) 

 

bery best of luck, YOU WILL BEAT IT !!!

[Breastman]

If you are dependent on alcohol you are deemed to be unfit to be in possession of firearms. If you contact your GP about the problem they will inform the police and they will, at least, remove any firearms from your property, but likely revoke your certificates.

 

IMO its much better to leap before you're pushed and i would dispose of any and all guns you have until you are confidently over the problem. I would also think of handing in the certificate(s) after you have disposed of the guns, preferably before the FLD gets informed by your GP. IMO it will make reapplying for them a LOT easier than having a revocation on your record. If you have shooting mates that can take the guns, excellent, if not you'll need to sell them or put them in long term storage with an RFD (could be quite costly).

 

I am currently holding a shotgun for someone in a similar situation, but he said some stupid things to his wife (suicide threat), who then informed the police. His certs were immediately revoked and if i'm being really honest, i doubt he's going to get them back now because of that.

 

Well done for confronting the problem and i wish you luck in beating it

[ditchman]

if you are brave enough to rekonise you have a problem....you are at least half way there to sorting it out.......well done boy 

[Bobba]

Kiffy, in order to give the subject some dimension could you quantify please what you mean by "drinking way too much" (every night).? Are you talking about, say, three or four pints plus a few whiskies? Maybe 1/2 to a whole bottle or wine?

I ask because what you're drinking may to you seem a problem but to others may be a normal night out. And before somebody verbally kicks me in the slats I fully recognise the need for responsible drinking. It's just that by quantifying the issue people can understand better the problem you are grappling with.

Good luck in facing the issue.

[Rewulf]

45 minutes ago, Bobba said:

Kiffy, in order to give the subject some dimension could you quantify please what you mean by "drinking way too much" (every night).? Are you talking about, say, three or four pints plus a few whiskies? Maybe 1/2 to a whole bottle or wine?

I ask because what you're drinking may to you seem a problem but to others may be a normal night out. And before somebody verbally kicks me in the slats I fully recognise the need for responsible drinking. It's just that by quantifying the issue people can understand better the problem you are grappling with.

Good luck in facing the issue.

Not sure as that really makes any difference.
If the man is drinking enough that he believes he needs to talk to his doctor about it.
It doesnt matter what amount it is.

I have experience of this particular matter, and you would be surprised how much an FEO thinks is 'too much'

[Graham M]

The current thinking is that you shouldn't drink more than 14 units of alcohol a week, or in other words 6 pints a week.

I know that there are many of us  (shooters) who drink a lot more than that and don't consider it to be anywhere near a problem. But believe me, your FEO will should he find out.

The powers-that-be are determined to find as many excuses as possible to take away your guns and being of "Intemperate habits" is one of them.

I would urge Kiffy to bite the bullet and stop boozing at once. It isn't rocket science that it will eventually start to cause him a lot of health problems. And once those health problems start his doctor will soon become aware of it and will then have to tell the police about them.

When I worked away from home we used to spend every evening in the pub, and as the weeks went by it became the norm to drink more than a few pints every night until it became apparent that we were boozing to excess..............and weren't noticing it the next day when we piled into the van and drove to work.

You don't need to go on the wagon, as a couple of pints now and then ain't going to hurt you, but if you are getting through 5-6 pints a night, every night, then your FEO WILL report you to his boss and the chances are you will lose your ticket.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Graham M

[Scully]

If it interferes with your work then in my opinion you’ve got a problem.

I got my first ticket ( for handguns ) when I was in my early 20’s; I had a well paid job with plenty of free time, and when I was off I was out with my mates every night and drank to extremes.

I never considered myself to have a problem and drank for the effect, not the taste.

I was just doing what most people of my age did, and I know plenty of ticket holders who go out and get blitzed on a regular basis. It means you’re human, not an alcoholic.

I very rarely drink to excess now ( I’m now 58 ) but strangely enough do enjoy the odd drink at home, whereas I would never drink at home in my younger days.

Its not a clear cut issue, but if it’s interfering with your domestic ,  work life and relationships with other people and you feel it’s beyond your control, then see a Doc, if not then don’t.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Scully

[deershooter]

I know how you feel I have been there myself ,when my father passed away I drank 4.5 l of scotch a week for 9 months then the next year a whole bottle of wine a day .I had to get the better of it ! before it got the better of me .

 It's not that hard really it just your brain telling you you need the drink. I just replaced the wine with a cold bottle of lime and water ,dont go cold turkey start by saying I will have one or two nights off .i did it worked for me . I'm now just a social drinker who has about 2 bottles of wine a week very little beer and a couple of nights a month on scotch normally with company 

good luck don't let it win 

 

Deershooter 

[Dougy]

PW AA, lol

I presume you drink as you think it makes you feel better or it helps you distance your problems

The truth is it won't help and it  makes it all worse, you won't see it getting worse because you are looking at the world through the bottom of a beer glass. 

Get absolutely hammered to the point your unconscious and see if the things in your life have got a bit better the next time you can remember to think about them. I can promise you they will only get worse, oh ! And your bank balance is getting smaller, so will your circle of friends. 

 

The plus side is you recognise you have an issue, someone said about the amount that you drink has increased, it makes no difference really the number of units, but if you have doubled then that a significant amount, to some 4 pints is a normal amount while watching tv, to me I'm wobbly on 3 pints. 

 

 

[Vince Green]

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 11:57, Bobba said:

Kiffy, in order to give the subject some dimension could you quantify please what you mean by "drinking way too much" (every night).? Are you talking about, say, three or four pints plus a few whiskies? Maybe 1/2 to a whole bottle or wine?

I ask because what you're drinking may to you seem a problem but to others may be a normal night out. And before somebody verbally kicks me in the slats I fully recognise the need for responsible drinking. It's just that by quantifying the issue people can understand better the problem you are grappling with.

Good luck in facing the issue.

I agree with you, its more subjective than just an arbitrary line in the sand. Having seen how much drinking takes place in the Bisley Clubhouses every summer you could point the finger at a lot of shooters.

I am always appalled by the amount of shelf space given over to booze in the average supermarket these days. Somebody must be buying it.

[Wingman]

let’s be honest for a moment here though most of the guys i work with and know well have a couple of pints every night after work.  Those that work in our central london office go to the pub nearly every night many of them are shooters and in very senior positions (legal etc). Putting the medical advice to one side for a moment does that constitute “problem” drinking? i don’t know, but i guess it depends on the individual. 

were too quick to label things these days. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Wingman

[Graham M]

But it isn't us that are doing the labelling. My old Doctor used to smoke and drink a hell of a lot more than I have ever done, but in this day and age HE would be asked if I had a drink problem.

I have just bought 48 bottles of Budweiser from the supermarket.....looks bad, but they will last me for a couple of months. But if you are getting through them in one week, do you have a problem? 

Maybe not, because they are only half pint bottles and that would equate something like three and a half pints a night. But if the police thought that this was exceeding the amount that they considered to be a problem, then you could be thought to be of intemperate habits.

Wonder how many high ranking police officers are drinking a few large whiskies every evening after they get home.

 

[Bigbroon]

Just joined this forum and this is my first post. I have recently been signed off work with depression and put on anti depressants.was also drinking far too much but have stopped that now. Basc have given the advice that I should hand my guns over to a friend or surrender them to police. Even though going shooting is a release for me 

[Rewulf]

17 hours ago, Bigbroon said:

Just joined this forum and this is my first post. I have recently been signed off work with depression and put on anti depressants.was also drinking far too much but have stopped that now. Basc have given the advice that I should hand my guns over to a friend or surrender them to police. Even though going shooting is a release for me 

BASC  have given you that advice ,because it is the best course of action for you at this present time.

If you voluntarily hand them in, and they suspend your ticket(s) you are demonstrating how responsible you are.
If firearms find out and order you to hand them in, then it looks worse, and you could be revoked, making it more difficult to get a ticket in the future.

They will find out eventually, your doctor is technically duty bound to tell them.
If all you have is sec 2 shotguns then you could get a friend to lodge them, if he has room, but if you have sec 1 stuff, thats not really going to work.
That would be a job for an RFD.
 

Get a clean bill of health from your doctor, and know you are right within yourself, give it time, and you should be able to get everything back, and continue as before.
If shooting is therapeutic for you ,then you could still do that at a club, or with friends via clays ect.

[Bigbroon]

Thanks for the reply handed my guns into rfd today for storage and surrendered my licence to the police fao thinks because I was pro active I should have no problem in getting them back at a later date 

[rimfire4969]

1 hour ago, Bigbroon said:

Thanks for the reply handed my guns into rfd today for storage and surrendered my licence to the police fao thinks because I was pro active I should have no problem in getting them back at a later date 

I am no expert but it sounds the right thing to do.

Good luck and I wish you a speedy recovery.

[Scully]

On 14/06/2018 at 17:40, Bigbroon said:

Just joined this forum and this is my first post. I have recently been signed off work with depression and put on anti depressants.was also drinking far too much but have stopped that now. Basc have given the advice that I should hand my guns over to a friend or surrender them to police. Even though going shooting is a release for me 

That’s poor advice in my opinion, but in BASC’s defence, once you’ve alerted them to a medical condition such as this they are left with little choice but to respond with the advice you state they did, as just like the police they will be desperate to cover their rear end. 

Their advice should have been to first contact your RFD and ask him to lodge your firearms, and then after doing so, contact your FEO and alert him/her to your condition and of what you’ve done. You should NEVER willingly surrender your firearms to the police, and certainly never without photographing each and every item and getting a receipt, and even then I’d still be reluctant. 

As it happens, I think you’ve done the right thing, although I’m not sure surrendering your tickets is a good thing, but I wish you well, a speedy recovery and the return of your tickets. 

[Bigbroon]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

That’s poor advice in my opinion, but in BASC’s defence, once you’ve alerted them to a medical condition such as this they are left with little choice but to respond with the advice you state they did, as just like the police they will be desperate to cover their rear end. 

Their advice should have been to first contact your RFD and ask him to lodge your firearms, and then after doing so, contact your FEO and alert him/her to your condition and of what you’ve done. You should NEVER willingly surrender your firearms to the police, and certainly never without photographing each and every item and getting a receipt, and even then I’d still be reluctant. 

As it happens, I think you’ve done the right thing, although I’m not sure surrendering your tickets is a good thing, but I wish you well, a speedy recovery and the return of your tickets. 

Sorry should have stated I handed my shotguns into my RFD for safe storage but the police were the ones that said they would come and collect my licence ?