matone Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Quite true ,in these conditions moor fires travel across almost anything ! Very hard to get control of without lots of water !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Uilleachan said: Regular controlled burning won't stop the kind of fires we're seeing up and down the country, unless you burn all of it regularly. Fire spreads over parched grass almost as quickly as the wind blows and so hot cinders will find fuel where ever they come in contact with it. This isn't down to lack of moor burn, this is down to dry weather high temperatures and negligent (perhaps criminal) members of the public. Hope it's put out soon. Read the guardian story written by that ******** idiot Monbiot!.....He reckons Grouse shooting is to blame! Just to clarify, ? I don't read the rag, I got the story off the GWCT daily newsletter! Edited June 28, 2018 by panoma1 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 i was thinking that a good old burn out...will revitilise the moor.....obviously not the areas where people live or earn their living..............or am i being a bit too optimistic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, ditchman said: i was thinking that a good old burn out...will revitilise the moor.....obviously not the areas where people live or earn their living..............or am i being a bit too optimistic ? Not the way this us burning there's nothing left to grow back, the fire fighters said the actual peat is on fire on channel 5 yesterday? The wright stuff there was an Australian on the panel saying it was a regular occurrence for mass bush fires wiping out whole villages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Once it gets into the peat you have to dig it out and soak it with water (lots).It can reignite weeks after ,especially if winds strengthen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchthepigeonmutley Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 One of the fire brigade bigwigs was interviewed on the Today programme this morning and he was very critical - and rightly so - of two people who had ignored advice and gone up on to the moor yesterday evening to look for injured wildlife. If anything had happened to them they would doubtless expect emergency service personnel to put their own lives at risk to get them to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, catchthepigeonmutley said: One of the fire brigade bigwigs was interviewed on the Today programme this morning and he was very critical - and rightly so - of two people who had ignored advice and gone up on to the moor yesterday evening to look for injured wildlife. If anything had happened to them they would doubtless expect emergency service personnel to put their own lives at risk to get them to safety. Wasn't Packham an Odd Billy was it?? Edited June 28, 2018 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 So it transpires that over 12,000 acres of the now ablaze Saddleworth Moor is managed on behalf of United Utilities...........by........you may not know.......the RSPB! And they do not control/burn the heather there! I wonder if the bigwigs of the RSPB including Packham et al are up there tramping the moors, moving the birds to safety?............Didn't think so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 17 hours ago, ditchman said: i was thinking that a good old burn out...will revitilise the moor.....obviously not the areas where people live or earn their living..............or am i being a bit too optimistic ? Quite wrong Ditchy. If the peat is burnt to any depth that ground will not support vegetative growth for very many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, panoma1 said: So it transpires that over 12,000 acres of the now ablaze Saddleworth Moor is managed on behalf of United Utilities...........by........you may not know.......the RSPB! And they do not control/burn the heather there! I wonder if the bigwigs of the RSPB including Packham et al are up there tramping the moors, moving the birds to safety?............Didn't think so! They`re `conservationists` which in my experience ,means conserving their own careers & lifestyles.....& little else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 17 hours ago, panoma1 said: Read the guardian story written by that ******** idiot Monbiot!.....He reckons Grouse shooting is to blame! Just to clarify, ? I don't read the rag, I got the story off the GWCT daily newsletter! 2 minutes ago, panoma1 said: So it transpires that over 12,000 acres of the now ablaze Saddleworth Moor is managed on behalf of United Utilities...........by........you may not know.......the RSPB! And they do not control/burn the heather there! I wonder if the bigwigs of the RSPB including Packham et al are up there tramping the moors, moving the birds to safety?............Didn't think so! It would seem that Monbidiot has shot himself in the foot this time - not that he will make such a big fuss of admitting it tho' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: It would seem that Monbidiot has shot himself in the foot this time - not that he will make such a big fuss of admitting it tho' Monbiot claims it's Grouse shooting that is to blame for moorland wildfires, because heather management creates "tinderbox" conditions! Scientists say that unmanaged, lank, dry heather creates "tinderbox" conditions.........Saddleworth Moor is managed by the RSPB as a moor where the heather is left unmanaged.........this lack of management by the RSPB has apparantly lead to the heat generated by the "hot burning" lank heather setting the peat underneath on fire.........it could be burning under the surface for months, destroying the internationally important, rare upland habitat for years (if not decades?) to come! Well done Monbiot, your poisonous scribblings, has prompted a reaction which appears to have revealed exactly who is to blame!....a "shot in the foot" indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Monbiot claims it's Grouse shooting that is to blame for moorland wildfires, because heather management creates "tinderbox" conditions! Scientists say that unmanaged, lank, dry heather creates "tinderbox" conditions.........Saddleworth Moor is managed by the RSPB as a moor where the heather is left unmanaged.........this lack of management by the RSPB has apparantly lead to the heat generated by the "hot burning" lank heather setting the peat underneath on fire.........it could be burning under the surface for months, destroying the internationally important, rare upland habitat for years (if not decades?) to come! Well done Monbiot, your poisonous scribblings, has prompted a reaction which appears to have revealed exactly who is to blame!....a "shot in the foot" indeed! +1 Writing for newspapers is never unbiased and often not truthful and caters for the perceived readership since maintaining and increasing circulation is the goal. The Guardian specialises in left of centre and 'liberal thinking' readers and writes what they want to read. Being unbiased or truthful is not particularly important compared to circulation. No point in writing the truth if no one is going to buy the paper and read it! Well managed moor aims to have a mix of ages of heather and other moorland plants. This is done by controlled burning. When this is done regularly and under the right weather conditions, it can be controlled by those who know what they are doing, and the burn moves quite quickly across the surface, not igniting the peat base and regrowth occurs very quickly. However - if the peat base does catch fire it is VERY hard to put out. and may pretty much destroy the moor as nothing can grow where the peat is burned away. The risk of fire is always there, but it is much harder to manage in long old growth, where the heat of the burn will be much higher. I also question why United Utilities (who are a water supplier) own grouse moor. My understanding was that the water companies usually have/can arrange a right to the collected water from ground whoever owns it. Certainly Severn Trent doesn't pay me for the water that runs into their river from my ground. Owning grouse moors doesn't seem a good use for water rates payers funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 http://www.countryside-alliance.org/moorland-blaze-must-not-be-misrepresented/?utm_campaign=506557_Newsletter - 290618&utm_medium=dotmailer&utm_source=Countryside Alliance&dm_i=44G9,AUV1,1MIVMU,16WX4,1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 I was just going to say i hope the shooting orgs jump all this story, not that folk would read it. as for united utilities owning a grouse moor, is that not just where they have invested money/ pension fund? Buying the land because they can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 This is worth a read. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-44648348?utm_source=All+Contacts&utm_campaign=d923eab68b-MB290618&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_dd843c5cb6-d923eab68b-21861007&goal=0_dd843c5cb6-d923eab68b-21861007&mc_cid=d923eab68b&mc_eid=596bcb1286 David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kalahari said: This is worth a read. Good article and pretty much what I had always understood from talking to the keepers when I used to spend a bit of time on the moor in my youth. They used to try and burn some every year, but once it got too long and thick it was always considered too risky to burn unless the conditions were quite wet - when it was also hard to get a clean burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 What chance United Utilities recognising that the rspb management regime has been a disaster and them bringing in a shooting tenant to take the area back into grouse production? Oh well, we can dream. I can't see the rspb footing the bill for reseeding the heather, but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 Yep,once it gets dry ,you get more peat catching fire under degenerate ,senile heather stands due to the higher temp generated by the mass of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 hello, is there any way to see via a satellite web site on the computer, its a real shame it happened do anyone think it might have been started deliberately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, is there any way to see via a satellite web site on the computer, its a real shame it happened do anyone think it might have been started deliberately According to the itv news just now, someone has been arrested under suspicion of lighting the fire deliberately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, is there any way to see via a satellite web site on the computer, its a real shame it happened do anyone think it might have been started deliberately more than likely! Just waiting for some ####wit around here to see it on the news think looks fun and head out with a box of matches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 It doesn’t matter if Montbiot is wrong or not. Unless anyone counters his comments and they’re made as public as his were, then he’s won. I doubt the Guardian will print a retraction or even simply the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 I work near Winter Hill and have smelt/seen it all day, it's this fire that someone has been arrested for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 hello, if that is the case of arson what a crack pot or words to that effect, all those people affected with fire fighters, / army/ and police, at least 5 years in HMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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