Drones over Gatwick

[Vince Green]

it doesn't take much imagination to see the potential a drone has, in places like Afghanistan high value targets are routinely taken out by drones. What one man can build another man can copy.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Vince Green

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Don't know if anyone has watched drone racing on sky channels lately, the "faster than the eye can see" speed, agility, controllability, instantaneous stop and changes of direction coupled to onboard cameras is something to behold. They literally cover hundreds of yards in seconds, no doubt there will be armed versions of these tiny things adapted for the battle field. One can easily imagine automatic versions of these being triggered remotely from miles away (using video footage from other surveillance drones) which will zip across valleys and terrain and self detonate a yard or two above clusters of hapless soldiers, possibly even in complete darkness. 

And you’re still advocating the shooting down of drones with .22 rimfire ammo, despite what you’ve just posted above? 🤔

[Mice!]

I would love to see how other countries would have reacted to something like this happening, i cant imagine the USA, Russia or China having an airport shut down over something like this.

[Stonepark]

45 minutes ago, ordnance said:

And if it gets it wrong, and decides a aircraft is drone. No government is going to OK any thing that could end up being a bigger danger to aircraft and civilians that the drone causing the issues.  Automated systems can go wrong. The patriot missile system for example was the greatest system ever,  turned out all it was good at was shooting down friendly aircraft. 

I did't say it wouldn' t need a human to 'flip the on switch'  but once operational envelope was clear i. e. airport closed and no aircraft within 5km, it would deal with drone when it next appeared very quickly with minimal likeyhood of untowards damage due to plastic frangible ammo.

 

 

[Hamster]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

And you’re still advocating the shooting down of drones with .22 rimfire ammo, despite what you’ve just posted above? 🤔

I don't understand your confusion, why not ? The drones over Gatwick were evidently not the hobby racing ones in said programmes so their speed would not be in that kind of league and even if it were it would still be possible to shoot them down, it is after all what the Phalanx system does with fuel powered missiles which must be going at ten times the speed of the fastest drones !? 

It is the mere presence of drones that causes such catastrophic mayhem, they don't need to be whizzing around fast like those racing ones. Even the police had eventually said that shooting them down was an option being considered. 

It may even be possible (for the military) to devise 4 gauge shotgun loads that open up after 10-40-60-100-150 yards spraying the area with 2000-3000 number 4's or something, one of these vomiting 10 rounds a second at a fast moving object will hit it. 

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, Hamster said:

I don't understand your confusion, why not ? The drones over Gatwick were evidently not the hobby racing ones in said programmes so their speed would not be in that kind of league and even if it were it would still be possible to shoot them down, it is after all what the Phalanx system does with fuel powered missiles which must be going at ten times the speed of the fastest drones !? 

It is the mere presence of drones that causes such catastrophic mayhem, they don't need to be whizzing around fast like those racing ones. Even the police had eventually said that shooting them down was an option being considered. 

It may even be possible (for the military) to devise 4 gauge shotgun loads that open up after 10-40-60-100-150 yards spraying the area with 2000-3000 number 4's or something, one of these vomiting 10 rounds a second at a fast moving object will hit it. 

You don't understand my confusion? The suggestion that UK authorities would ever sanction the use of firearms to shoot down drones in a civilian environment is ridiculous. If you can't comprehend that then I doubt it's me who is confused. Think it through. 

[Walker570]

Shutting the door now the horse has gone, springs to mind. The innocent couple arrested and detained have been totally cleared and released .... no doubt someone in their street fingered them because he has a drone.  Back to square one.  They have found a damaged drone near the perimeter fence, so hopefully prints and DNA MAY be present on that.

After the criminals are found and charged it is my hope that the airlines sue the individuals for the disruption caused.

[MarcMaxus]

Rubber bullets been considered?

I still favour the Stinger method

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

it is my hope that the airlines sue the individuals for the disruption caused.

Unless they are 'high worth' people, it probably won't be worth the legal costs

[Hamster]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

You don't understand my confusion? The suggestion that UK authorities would ever sanction the use of firearms to shoot down drones in a civilian environment is ridiculous. If you can't comprehend that then I doubt it's me who is confused. Think it through. 

So why did the police and army say they were/would consider it ? 

Sorry but I simply don't understand why shooting down such destructive drones is so ridiculous ?! I have repeatedly said it would need to be specialist guns firing small pellets or light bullets that would not cause undue damage or go through several walls upon their return to ground. 

Gatwick is an airport with aircraft, cars and a few people scattered about the place, the VAST majority of the area is grass, concrete and rooftops, the notion that a few thousand rounds of light weight bullets will cause any significant or meaningful amount of collateral damage is simply ridiculous. 

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, Hamster said:

So why did the police and army say they were/would consider it ? 

Sorry but I simply don't understand why shooting down such destructive drones is so ridiculous ?! I have repeatedly said it would need to be specialist guns firing small pellets or light bullets that would not cause undue damage or go through several walls upon their return to ground. 

Gatwick is an airport with aircraft, cars and a few people scattered about the place, the VAST majority of the area is grass, concrete and rooftops, the notion that a few thousand rounds of light weight bullets will cause any significant or meaningful amount of collateral damage is simply ridiculous. 

I rather think the police were or are clutching at straws.  If there is a drone or multiples of drones in the sky, whether over deserted airfield or around occupied buildings, are you really suggesting that live firing will take place without first ensuring all personnel and civilians are evacuated?  I think the idea is to lessen the disruption, not add to it. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Foreign Object Damage!

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, grrclark said:

I genuinely despair 😞

I thought it was a joke post , maybe not 😂

[Hamster]

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

I rather think the police were or are clutching at straws.  If there is a drone or multiples of drones in the sky, whether over deserted airfield or around occupied buildings, are you really suggesting that live firing will take place without first ensuring all personnel and civilians are evacuated?  I think the idea is to lessen the disruption, not add to it. 

Oh I see, so the police and military experts were just jesting....................and did they have a meeting first and agree terms with one another in case somebody spotted the flaws in their statement ? 

This is one of those cases where you either see or refuse to see the difference between a 36 hour shutdown of UK's (possibly Europe's) 2nd busiest airport and the ensuing financial losses and the "risks" of falling light weight specialist ammo. One is incalculable the other affordable small change. 

 

[Lord v]

Anyone see the Dutch video of the trained eagles? That looked a solid plan as any. 

They have the speed and agility to take prey in flight, silent and only cost in mice. Also have the eyesite to deal with any drone. 

I'm not sure how they would deal with the larger drones, but it would be pretty epic to see. 

[Jaymo]

49 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Foreign Object Damage!

FOD has never caused an incident! Oh wait - Air France Concorde among others

[JohnfromUK]

Interesting ....... even bizarre developments https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6524457/Police-continue-quiz-double-glazing-worker-Gatwick-drone.html

[Scully]

13 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Oh I see, so the police and military experts were just jesting....................and did they have a meeting first and agree terms with one another in case somebody spotted the flaws in their statement ? 

This is one of those cases where you either see or refuse to see the difference between a 36 hour shutdown of UK's (possibly Europe's) 2nd busiest airport and the ensuing financial losses and the "risks" of falling light weight specialist ammo. One is incalculable the other affordable small change. 

 

I have no idea who was jesting with who, but regard the entire suggestion of shooting them down as a joke. Like I said; the idea is to lessen the disruption, not add to it. 

Think about it; the idea is to prevent drones interfering with air traffic in the first place, not to amass firepower around each and every airport in the country just in case, with all the inherent logistical nightmare and expense that that would include. Today Gatwick, tomorrow Heathrow, the day after ( no time off for Christmas ) Prestwick....Ringway ( showing my age )......Teesside....

The consequences of what is happening at Gatwick could be immense; the need to prevent them disrupting airports in the first place is the priority. I doubt anything could fly while there’s a small firefight taking place. 

[amateur]

My daughter, back from Lapland, has just texted. "We've landed on M25"

To which the reply could only be

"Damn me, that sounds dangerous" 😄

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From the Mail on Sunday, please note the last line!

Paul Gait, 47, and wife Elaine, 54, released without charge after spending over 36 hours in police custody

Their release piles pressure on police who are yet to find the 'eco-warriors' behind the crisis four days on

Sussex Police say there is a 'possibility there was never a drone' despite finding damaged one near runway 

Gatwick Airport now offering a £50,000 reward to catch the culprit which grounded more than 1,000 flights

Questions as to why MPs refused to sanction team of military electronic warfare specialists to halt the drone

Police at Britain's biggest airports are set to be armed with drone-killing bazookas in the wake of the chaos  

[Jega]

Mr Paul Gait and his wife Elaine should now be in for a very very prosperous start to 2019, courtesy of the Mail on Sunday and some highly irresponsible speculative reporting by their lynch mob reporters.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Jega

[grrclark]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

From the Mail on Sunday, please note the last line!

Paul Gait, 47, and wife Elaine, 54, released without charge after spending over 36 hours in police custody

Their release piles pressure on police who are yet to find the 'eco-warriors' behind the crisis four days on

Sussex Police say there is a 'possibility there was never a drone' despite finding damaged one near runway 

Gatwick Airport now offering a £50,000 reward to catch the culprit which grounded more than 1,000 flights

Questions as to why MPs refused to sanction team of military electronic warfare specialists to halt the drone

Police at Britain's biggest airports are set to be armed with drone-killing bazookas in the wake of the chaos  

There have been a few articles in the press today talking about the use of bazookas that fire a catch net in front of the drone.  Did someone not post a video of that earlier in the thread?

Again fine if you happen to be within range of said drone with your bazooka, but like a shotgun it is going to be limited by effective range.  Would be fun if they made it into clay competition though, catch the clays instead of turning them into dust.

Edited December 23, 2018 by grrclark

[panoma1]

58 minutes ago, Lord v said:

Anyone see the Dutch video of the trained eagles? That looked a solid plan as any. 

They have the speed and agility to take prey in flight, silent and only cost in mice. Also have the eyesite to deal with any drone. 

I'm not sure how they would deal with the larger drones, but it would be pretty epic to see. 

I saw something about eagles beingused to bring down drones...what worries me is the four propellers spinning at a terrific rate of knots? .........Could they not injure the birds?

[Lord v]

16 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I saw something about eagles beingused to bring down drones...what worries me is the four propellers spinning at a terrific rate of knots? .........Could they not injure the birds?

The video showed them taking out small/medium sized drones without much trouble (not big eagles either) . A lot of drones have shrouded rotors so a quick strike to the shroud would spin them out. 

Once a drone has been hit and is spinning out I dont know how good they are at restabilizing? Probably not great,especially if they go upside down. 

[stumfelter]

Surely the obvious answer would be to fit a turret to all civil aircraft with quad rapid fire .22 guns so they could shoot down any drones that approach. The stewardesses could take it in turn to man the turret in-between serving drinks,snacks, consoling children etc.