Retsdon Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, panoma1 said: .......but has that stopped Israel existing as a state? Not the same. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310773204_Is_the_Islamic_State_a_'state'_by_International_Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 For a state to be recognised as such, their is no hard or fast rule, but I believe the general rule is that at least one other state must recognise it for it to be given legitimacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 I think this petition will be a waste of time, they may well debate banning her and other like her but she and others will return to the UK one way or the other, she will be put through the legal system and IF they can find and prove any crimes she will be prosecuted for such and duly sentenced , but I think she will get a lot of support/money to fight her case. They well may argue that we have already let nearly 500 returning ISIS back into the UK, what difference will one more make? And why should she be singled out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Not the same. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310773204_Is_the_Islamic_State_a_'state'_by_International_Law Do you think those that joined Islamic State cared whether the international community accepted the caliphate as a state? They did and that's all that matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 I say stuff the law in this case, change it if necessary, under no circumstances should a terrorist threat that's gone abroad to support the likes of isis be allowed back to this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 53 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Do you think those that joined Islamic State cared whether the international community accepted the caliphate as a state? They did and that's all that matters! Not really. The thing is, if the government deems her to be a citizen of the Islamic State then the government is de facto recognizing the legitimacy of I.S.'s claims to statehood. And that's never going to happen. No, I'm afraid she's just a chicken coming home to roost -a chicken of a breed that old Enoch warned about all those years ago and was pilloried for his foresight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Anybody contemplating joining the armed forces really does need his/her head read, to put there lives on the line for this country, can you just imagine the pain our heroes are going through when they learn this woman will return after many of there colleagues did not return. Edited February 16, 2019 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy1950 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 No way should she be allowed back here. Her husband, who she has said she still loves, is responsible for his wife and unborn child. Let her claim asylum in Denmark. As she is about to have her child, there is no way she would be allowed to fly and the diplomatic service has said there is no way they would put any of their people in harms way to help her. Sorry but she has made her bed and she will give birth in it soon, in a refuge camp and have to take her chances. She would not be welcomed here by any right thinking person, but will never the less get all the help the loonie left can muster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: Not really. The thing is, if the government deems her to be a citizen of the Islamic State then the government is de facto recognizing the legitimacy of I.S.'s claims to statehood. And that's never going to happen. No, I'm afraid she's just a chicken coming home to roost -a chicken of a breed that old Enoch warned about all those years ago and was pilloried for his foresight. Legitimate or not, the caliphate and its claimed status as an Islamic State is more or less finished now, they have been defeated and driven from "their" lands, so it is no problem any government recognising it did briefly exist....purely for the purpose of determining an ex IS citizens statehood! If the object is to keep these individuals out, as per the majority of UK citizens wishes, then every avenue should be explored by our elected representatives to do so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I say stuf the publf the law in this case, change it if necessary, under no circumstances should a terrorist threat that's gone abroad to support the likes of isis be allowed back to lthis country. And stop all the publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Apparently she has been taken to hospital with contractions. Childbirth isn’t always plain sailing and it would be a shame if they could only save the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, ph5172 said: Apparently she has been taken to hospital with contractions. Childbirth isn’t always plain sailing and it would be a shame if they could only save the child. So if the baby is born in Syria will that make it Syrian? And how will that effect its status? Will it be allowed to return to the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, old'un said: So if the baby is born in Syria will that make it Syrian? And how will that effect its status? Will it be allowed to return to the UK? I’m not sure. i suppose it ultimately based on the nationality of the mother - the cause of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fse10 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 We should let them all come back free plane ticket home fill the plane then stick a SAM up it's back end job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrit Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Jan 2015 she called her father to say she was in ISIL-held territory, she said: "I'm in Islamic State and I'm not coming back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, fse10 said: We should let them all come back free plane ticket home fill the plane then stick a SAM up it's back end job done. A little rough on the Aircrew! But he ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, fse10 said: We should let them all come back free plane ticket home fill the plane then stick a SAM up it's back end job done. And blame the Russians 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygreengrass Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I say stuff the law in this case, change it if necessary, under no circumstances should a terrorist threat that's gone abroad to support the likes of isis be allowed back to this country. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I say stuff the law in this case, change it if necessary, Sadly the law will not be changed any time soon - if ever. This is because it has to be done by Parliament - and Parliament is populated by a load of useless overpaid, over expensed, over holidayed bone idle procrastinators who will do nothing useful and delay everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: who will do nothing useful and delay everything. unless it is a pay rise, Edited February 16, 2019 by Yellow Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Not an easy one this in my opinion. If I was her parents I'd be concerned about her safety once back in the UK. There is also the matter of the upbringing of the child, especially if it is male. Indoctrination would be my concern there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) On 15/02/2019 at 19:13, TIGHTCHOKE said: Somehow I think she will get all the assistance she requires! You and I know it, already in place IMHO. Cheery B Liar probably lined up already? Edited February 17, 2019 by old man Cheery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoolinDalton Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 I wonder what the law abiding, moderate British Muslims think of this case? Has there been any comment from the British Council for Muslims? Would they condemn her outright, or ask people to forgive her? I'm not fanning the flames here....just curious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Beth Aze says it better than I can. Shamina Begum was 15 when she was influenced online through communication by adults. She was Groomed. She was then transported from the UK to Syria by adults. She was Trafficked. She was then married to, and conceived a child by, a 27 year old man. Still 15. She was raped / sexually exploited / sexually abused. She then experienced beheadings, knew of torture, and her two young children died. She was, is, traumatised. The response of the UK media and Government is victim blaming. This young woman, and her unborn child, need help. Like many victims of grooming, exploitation, abuse & trauma, she is defensive, distrustful, trying to hang onto what she was led to believe, and now slightly older than ‘a child’. That doesn’t change what has happened or what she needs. From me: I hear a lot of sympathy on this site for men who were violent at a young age. Shame you can't extend the same sympathy for a young woman who was at worst gullible and malleable. Edited February 16, 2019 by ehb102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 Quote From me: I hear a lot of sympathy on this site for men who were violent at a young age. Shame you can't extend the same sympathy for a young woman who was at worst gullible and malleable. Then i must be unsympathetic, i would let her rot where she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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