Brexit - merged threads

[Jaymo]

1 minute ago, ditchman said:

all this snipe-ing is getting boring ...........................face facts none of us small people can do a thing about what is about to happen...............the real stuff what you can get involved in is to VOTE.....

THAT IS WHEN THE REAL EXCREMENT WILL HAPPEN...........

trouble is the politicians dont realise that yet..........

Here here dear chap, let’s crack open a bottle of the Co-ops finest red and make a toast “ to the mess”

[matone]

7 minutes ago, ditchman said:

all this snipe-ing is getting boring ...........................face facts none of us small people can do a thing about what is about to happen...............the real stuff what you can get involved in is to VOTE.....

THAT IS WHEN THE REAL EXCREMENT WILL HAPPEN...........

trouble is the politicians dont realise that yet..........

Very true ,that is our only chance to tip over the applecart!!

I sincerely hope that we,as a people can do that.

[mudpatten]

What price Nigel Farage for PM after the next election?

[ditchman]

6 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

What price Nigel Farage for PM after the next election?

that all depends if he has enuff money to place enuff candidates...................................and i hope to god he chooses some better candidates this time ,,...cause the last lot were a shower of excrement...............

[JRDS]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

So if people who had voted leave told you they didn’t vote for no deal you’d still deny it as fact?

Sticks and stones and all that. When you resort to name calling the argument is well and truly lost.

The only thing lost is the result of the once in a Generation Referendum on both you and the Cretinous inhabitants of Parliament.

[Jaymo]

11 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

What price Nigel Farage for PM after the next election?

More chance of Red Rum and Shergar winning the National.....

[Newbie to this]

Just now, Jaymo said:

More chance of Red Rum and Shergar winning the National.....

I bet you thought the same about leave winning the referendum.

[mudpatten]

Indeed they were. One candidate from my neck of the woods is already attracting a lot of comment on a retired police facebook page, but I`ve sent Nige some money to help out anyway.

 

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Fair enough, you can argue black is white all day long but black is still black.

It's you having problems identifying the difference between black and white, by trying to muddy the waters by introducing irrelevant shades of grey............you lost the arguement....man up and admit it! Lol!

[Jaymo]

17 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I bet you thought the same about leave winning the referendum.

Nope....... whilst certain polls and stats showed a Remain to be ahead, world events, demographic discord and ‘spin’ given by both sides, one would be a fool to ignore the possibilities.

Would like to think that I’m not of the blinkered mentality, that and the fact I like a little bet....

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

all this snipe-ing is getting boring ...........................face facts none of us small people can do a thing about what is about to happen...............the real stuff what you can get involved in is to VOTE.....

THAT IS WHEN THE REAL EXCREMENT WILL HAPPEN...........

trouble is the politicians dont realise that yet..........

your right again Ditchy, I've just skipped through the last few pages thinking bla bla bla, 

has nothing happened other than folk going over the same things again and again, its like bleeding brexit.

2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

It’s not so little ( where’s a winking emoji when u need one) ?

Here you go 😉😉😉 

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, oowee said:

You have to also spare a thought for the Civil Servants in this process. There are not many of us on this forum that would be prepared to work 12 hour days over the last year or so and give up weekends at short notice without any recompense. Talking to a couple of friends that have been dragged in from energy to trade that have worked best part of 55 hours a week for last three weeks. Whatever happened to EU working time directive?

It would be nice to think that the politicians would recognise the failure of the systems to deal with such political issues which are going to get a lot worse yet and move to a greater representative system. I doubt that will happen wwe have a lot more lurching left to right and procrastination, deadlock before we get to sensible cooperation.

 

oowee, really, were you expecting sympathy. Can't think when i last did a job and didn't sign to ignore the working time directive for 48 hrs, many people regularly work a 55hr week as standard to make a decent wage, without the perks a civil servant will get.

Not having a pop at you personally but the 55hrs comment did make me laugh.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

But I’d hope you’d agree that this is just a tad more complicated than leaving a club?

I’m not playing on words, I’m asserting that not everybody who voted for the concept of leave agrees with the details.

How this can be denied giving the daily shenanigans in Parliament and everywhere else is beyond me.

I’m not pushing a remain agenda in this example, I am pointing out a very obvious detail that appears to be conveniently overlooked by nearly everyone who is apparently hell bent on a no deal Brexit.

There are very good reasons why the majority in Parliament are trying to avoid no deal anf if it happens it would be purely by accident.

For three years we’ve been told “we won, you lost so get over it”. We’re over it and just waiting for ardent Brexiteers to get over the fact that no deal ain’t happening unless Parliament mess up by epic proportions, as bad as they are they’re not that bad.

 

This is the second time we’ve been round this loop let’s just agree to disagree.

Who if you like we could try a compromise, how about I agree you’re right if you concede that no deal ain’t happening?

Yes of course it is more complex than leaving a club and while I agree the average voter wouldn't have understood what mechanisms would be needed to extracted us from the EU, they would have understood the concept of leaving, that leads us to two mechanisms we could leave by, one would be via a free trade deal and the other would be no deal and whatever option would as a minimum require us to stop paying the EU a substantial sum for trade, stop EU court supremacy over our own, stop free movement of people and bring us out of the single market and customs union, that was promised in no uncertain terms by the government before the referendum if leave won. So that is what as a minimum anyone voting leave would and should expect, it couldn't be clearer. 

I'll add, I would have liked to see a free trade deal, however the EU stated from the outset that was impossible because any deal would require the UK to respect the 4 freedoms, disMay and her team of traitors haven't even tried to negotiate a free deal, probably because they know its a non starter, therefore by default a wto brexit is what should be delivered. 

[Medic1281]

35 minutes ago, Mice! said:

oowee, really, were you expecting sympathy. Can't think when i last did a job and didn't sign to ignore the working time directive for 48 hrs, many people regularly work a 55hr week as standard to make a decent wage, without the perks a civil servant will get.

Not having a pop at you personally but the 55hrs comment did make me laugh.

And in his profile says he retired early! 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Here here dear chap, let’s crack open a bottle of the Co-ops finest red and make a toast “ to the mess”

To the mess Dilly Dilly.  

 

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

To the mess Dilly Dilly.  

 

Dilly Dilly 😂

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

It's you having problems identifying the difference between black and white, by trying to muddy the waters by introducing irrelevant shades of grey............you lost the arguement....man up and admit it! Lol!

Well it’s 2-0 to me but it could well prove third time lucky for you 🤪

[panoma1]

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Well it’s 2-0 to me but it could well prove third time lucky for you 🤪

2-0 to you? Ha! Dream on!......but aint it just like a female! To try to get the last word.........even if the last word is utter rubbish! Lol! 

[Raja Clavata]

35 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

2-0 to you? Ha! Dream on!......but aint it just like a female! To try to get the last word.........even if the last word is utter rubbish! Lol! 

How very Populist Brexiteer Misogynist-astic. You are welcome to have the last word. But in the meantime:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/13/xx-xx-britons-want-mps-vote-against-no-deal-brexit

 

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

How very Populist Brexiteer Misogynist-astic. You are welcome to have the last word. But in the meantime:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/13/xx-xx-britons-want-mps-vote-against-no-deal-brexit

 

Remind me what the polls thought about the result of the referendum before the vote again? 

Besides its irrelevant, we've had a country wide referendum and it needs to be actioned. 

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Yes of course it is more complex than leaving a club and while I agree the average voter wouldn't have understood what mechanisms would be needed to extracted us from the EU, they would have understood the concept of leaving, that leads us to two mechanisms we could leave by, one would be via a free trade deal and the other would be no deal and whatever option would as a minimum require us to stop paying the EU a substantial sum for trade, stop EU court supremacy over our own, stop free movement of people and bring us out of the single market and customs union, that was promised in no uncertain terms by the government before the referendum if leave won. So that is what as a minimum anyone voting leave would and should expect, it couldn't be clearer. 

I'll add, I would have liked to see a free trade deal, however the EU stated from the outset that was impossible because any deal would require the UK to respect the 4 freedoms, disMay and her team of traitors haven't even tried to negotiate a free deal, probably because they know its a non starter, therefore by default a wto brexit is what should be delivered. 

But I don't see how WTO Brexit can delivered without flushing our manufacturing industry down the toilet and if that happens pretty much the entire UK Government Industrial Strategy goes down the dunny with it. It seems inconceivable to me and the reason I don't believe WTO was ever really on the table and only used as a negotiating tool but we blew that too.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Raja Clavata
goes not downs

[Raja Clavata]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Remind me what the polls thought about the result of the referendum before the vote again? 

Besides its irrelevant, we've had a country wide referendum and it needs to be actioned. 

We all know they predicted a remain outcome - they got it wrong does that mean they are forever wrong on every other subject?

I understand what you are saying but can you honestly see it being actioned, if this all drags on much longer then the result of the referendum increasingly becomes irrelevant. I can imagine how sick and mad that makes some people feel but we have to deal with reality, surely?

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But I don't see how WTO Brexit can delivered without flushing our manufacturing industry down the toilet and if that happens pretty much the entire UK Government Industrial Strategy downs down the dunny with it. It seems inconceivable to me and the reason I don't believe WTO was ever really on the table and only used as a negotiating tool but we blew that too.

I believe there would be short term fall out and I agree I don't think the government ever thought for a second they would need to consider it, they thought they had the referendum rigged and never considered leave might win, I'm actually at the point I wonder if it'd have been better if Remain had won as I believe the damage being done by all this dithering, both now and the long term damage to the Uks image on the world stage could dwarf even the worst predictions for a hard brexit. 

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

We all know they predicted a remain outcome - they got it wrong does that mean they are forever wrong on every other subject?

I understand what you are saying but can you honestly see it being actioned, if this all drags on much longer then the result of the referendum increasingly becomes irrelevant. I can imagine how sick and mad that makes some people feel but we have to deal with reality, surely?

No I actually agree with this, the damage currently being done is enormous. 

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I believe there would be short term fall out and I agree I don't think the government ever thought for a second they would need to consider it, they thought they had the referendum rigged and never considered leave might win, I'm actually at the point I wonder if it'd have been better if Remain had won as I believe the damage being done by all this dithering, both now and the long term damage to the Uks image on the world stage could dwarf even the worst predictions for a hard brexit. 

Do you really mean rigged, that implies corruption to me? But I wholeheartedly agree they didn't think it all through adequately and just assumed leave was never going to happen.

It's impossible to know but you may well be right about just how damaging it has been to us both in domestic and global terms - my colleagues in France; consisting of Brits, French and Italian - are all bemused as to why we chose to leave. I was in the US a few weeks back and I know that former colleagues would have openly laughed in my face if it wasn't for the fact they have Trump as president.

One of the things that frustrates me most is the structure of the referendum, if it had been structured as a first vote on leave or remain with further votes to refine the details then I would almost certainly have voted leave in the first round. I can't be alone in this thinking and a vote structured this way would have almost certainly returned a much higher leave majority which would have stood a better chance of making the EU sit up and listen - a real lost opportunity it seems.

If we may come back to polls for a moment, I'm starting to wonder what useful purpose they serve in democracy, it seems to me like they provide a mechanism to assist in altering the outcome of the vote, either through tactical or protest votes. Perhaps it would be better if polls were actually banned and so nobody was influenced either directly or indirectly based on what the latest polls are saying - I'm kinda thinking out loud here but yeah why not, what's the downside?

[figgy]

All this so called damage I think is ********.

It will all settle down and we can all just get on with our lives.

We should never have been dragged into European common trade. We were doing well on our own.

The pound was strong we had manufacturing, then we handed over power to countries that don't have our best interests at heart. 

If there was another vote I'd vote leave again but there shouldn't be another vote. We had one and it should stand. The government has had years to sort out a deal or not. I wish Europe would say off you pop.