Lewis Hamilton

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Hamster said:

Take HAMILTON out of it for a minute, does that statue belong in a place of reverence or at the bottom of the sea, B is the correct answer. May he rot in hell. 

Probably be saying that about this man in 100 years time.

[Raja Clavata]

1 minute ago, enfieldspares said:

I think he's what we call here in the Midlands a "knobhead". And always has been. When I see him I think of the title of that book title "The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole Aged 13 3/4". And why on earth that Scherzinger girl wasted her time on him. Notwithstanding that she was also old enough to be his mother.

The Colston statue is different as apparently there was dispute over those that had wanted to add a supplementary metal plaque referencing Colston's primary source of wealth being slaving. Yet the Society that was a third party to the matter objected to the wording preferring an airbrushed version. So some feared it would never have that supplementary plaque fitted.

https://news.sky.com/story/edward-colston-why-toppled-statue-was-hated-by-many-and-other-controversial-uk-monuments-12002819

I wrote a letter to the London Evening Standard after Priti Patel's statement on the toppling of the Bristol statue:

"I saw Priti Patel on television saying that the pulling down of the Colston statue was "disgraceful". Just seeing her re-affirms that she just doesn't "get it" and is as stupid an individual as I'd always thought. Colston's statue in modern Bristol is as offensive and indefensible as statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest in modern day USA. But Colston's statue has gone yet the plinth it stood on remains vacant. I going to crowdfund (and ask Priti Patel for a donation) to replace it with a statue of Idi Amin. A man whom many Ugandans in Kampala, and elsewhere, also still, today, hold in esteem for his improvements to that city. Perhaps she'll "get it" then?"

 

Amin was a nutter but he did not wreak genocide and holocaust on the Asians he expelled, he reserved the genocide for his own people. A good portion of the descendants of the people he expelled went on to do very well in Kenya or the UK (where they were offered citizenship). My personal experience in East Africa is that these Asian people, the Gujarati among them at least, are perhaps among the most racist people I have ever come across - but I'll save that story for another day.

My own contacts in Kampala tell me that some, but not many, Ugandans are happy Amin expelled the Indians but unanimously disgusted by the way he treated his own people, he didn't even have the "decency" to follow the usual line of tribal discrimination...

So, whilst I kinda get the analogy, it's a bit rubbish to be honest...

[JohnfromUK]

23 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I going to crowdfund (and ask Priti Patel for a donation) to replace it with a statue of Idi Amin. A man whom many Ugandans in Kampala, and elsewhere, also still, today, hold in esteem for his improvements to that city.

If the good citizens of Kampala want a statue of Idi Amin (who you say did so much for them), why not ............ in Kampala. 

I don't believe Idi Amin did much for Bristol (though ironically no doubt some of the Asians he expelled are now contributing to life in Bristol).

Colston did do a lot for Bristol - he was a great philanthropist in his time - and made his money within the rules and conventions of his time.  If the citizens of Bristol wanted the statue removed and voted accordingly, then it should have been taken down ......... but there was a vote and they voted NOT to take it down, but to retain it - and that should have been respected.  It is called democracy - and it should never be replaced by 'power of the violent mob'.

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

But the mob don't believe in democracy - they want rule by violence and force imposing their will.

The standard response of the left - the end justifies the means.

[Jaymo]

17 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Amin was a nutter but he did not wreak genocide and holocaust on the Asians he expelled, he reserved the genocide for his own people. A good portion of the descendants of the people he expelled went on to do very well in Kenya or the UK (where they were offered citizenship). My personal experience in East Africa is that these Asian people, the Gujarati among them at least, are perhaps among the most racist people I have ever come across - but I'll save that story for another day.

Indeed, currently it appears that the vocal support/ indignation, is purely based on a Black/white divide.

Those who are blinkered and only see this, need to spend time in a Gulf state or India/Pakistan/Bangladesh plus Asia.

Antony Joshua calling for Black people to only spend money in ‘Black shops’ in itself shows racial divide, the very thing he is supposedly against! Hell, let’s bring back Apartheid and have segregated shops!!!!!!!! 

I judge and accept people on their manner/demeanour and character, couldn’t give a monkeys uncle to race or colour. 

 

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Jaymo said:

Indeed, currently it appears that the vocal support/ indignation, is purely based on a Black/white divide.

Those who are blinkered and only see this, need to spend time in a Gulf state or India/Pakistan/Bangladesh plus Asia.

Antony Joshua calling for Black people to only spend money in ‘Black shops’ in itself shows racial divide, the very thing he is supposedly against! Hell, let’s bring back Apartheid and have segregated shops!!!!!!!! 

I judge and accept people on their manner/demeanour and character, couldn’t give a monkeys uncle to race or colour. 

 

As do I and no matter what you do you'll never be able to help some people, to the extent that I believe some don't really want help or the division / discrimination to cease.

I try to see both sides of this, as well as most things in life but here some examples:

• Apparently now ALM is an affront or racist term
• Apparently saying that you don't see colour is offensive / racist - should I lie to avoid offending certain people
• An African friend once referred to me as her "N", taken as the term of endearment that it was intended to be given as, another African friend would blow a fuse at even the merest hint of using such a phrase in reference to a "mzungu"

Be damned, or is it darned, whatever way it seems.

Now I can fully get what a powerful motivation a sense of injustice or discrimination can be in driving one self to excel, I have harnessed that myself on more than one occasion in my life, as I'm sure the vast majority of people have too. But I doubt very much that the colour of AJ's skin has much directly to do with the fact he's where he is and the same applies to LH too I suspect.

[Rewulf]

52 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Now I can fully get what a powerful motivation a sense of injustice or discrimination can be in driving one self to excel, I have harnessed that myself on more than one occasion in my life, as I'm sure the vast majority of people have too. But I doubt very much that the colour of AJ's skin has much directly to do with the fact he's where he is and the same applies to LH too I suspect.

What I dont understand is why they feel they need to preach about injustice and inequality in life,  from their ivory towers ?
How did they get this life , that EVERYONE  , white, black , brown , can only dream of , when the world is such a racist place, and all the odds are (allegedly) stacked against them ?

Black and Asian politicians , many with cut glass , private school accents , talking about how theyve 'struggled' , Im sorry , but privilege doesnt always come from being white.
Lewis Hamilton was born into a wealthy family, he was apparently a spoilt brat, and still is, yet he seems to think he can speak for those who really have suffered?

I dont think so.

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

My own contacts in Kampala tell me that some, but not many, Ugandans are happy Amin expelled the Indians...

Yes. I have heard, and still hear, that view point also from Ugandans. It's complicated as it wasn't just about money. Amin wanted everybody who was in Uganda to be Ugandan. That is, as maybe China feels with Hong Kong now (I don't know) that they had to choose. Did they want to be Ugandan or by retaining their British passports to be British? And that they did not assimilate into Ugandan society and considered themselves...some....superior culturally to Ugandan Africans by virtue of their British passports. 

Now where have we had the same arguments made about people of certain Asian origin people not assimilating and not wanting to be part of the predominant culture of the country they inhabit and were born in? Doesn't Yaxley-Lennon aka "Tommy Robinson" make a career out of a similar proposition? That there is a group of Asians origin people that won't assimilate, that excludes those that are not of that culture, that is secretive and "yadda, yadda, yadda..."?

So Amin gave them a choice. That they could be of Uganda or leave Uganda. That they would no longer be allowed to "profit from Uganda" if they did not wish to "be of Uganda". But if they wanted instead to remain "British" then in that case they had best go to Britain. The claim about the £25 cash whilst true (and let us not forget that in the UK also at the same time in the same 1970s that no one was allowed to take out more than £25 in cash) omits to say that many simply used the banking system to take out their money.

So the story we hear in the UK of decision to expel the Ugandan Asians is that told from their viewpoint here in the UK and not from the perspective of Amin nor of many Ugandan Africans. I'll ask this is Amin's decision in fact no different from that which many who claim it'd be best in interests of England to also expel some of the citizens of Bradford or of Rochdale of Asian origin?

Edited June 9, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Pistol p]

Lewwy H is motor racing driver. He's very good at it and he should stick at it. He is not a politician, he is not a rap star or a hairdressing model. If you ignore him, he will go away.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Rewulf said:

What I dont understand is why they feel they need to preach about injustice and inequality in life,  from their ivory towers ?
How did they get this life , that EVERYONE  , white, black , brown , can only dream of , when the world is such a racist place, and all the odds are (allegedly) stacked against them ?

Exactly, mostly through raw talent and genetic chance, and in the case of AJ most likely helped by his ethnicity on that front, hard work and motivation only gets you so far...

Black and Asian politicians , many with cut glass , private school accents , talking about how theyve 'struggled' , Im sorry , but privilege doesnt always come from being white.
Lewis Hamilton was born into a wealthy family, he was apparently a spoilt brat, and still is, yet he seems to think he can speak for those who really have suffered?

I dont think so.

Again, I agree.

The other thing that gets my goat is that some people will have you believe that this discrimination and struggle is unique to them and their circumstances.

This may or may not resonate with you. When I was away in Morocco in Feb, there was a lady in the expedition who had a very privileged upbringing and done some amazing things in her adult life (including the first woman to walk the length of the Great Wall of China alone, the same feat traversing north to south in Iceland etc. etc.). Of the three ladies on the expedition, she looked on paper like the one most likely to be a diva and be a bit divisive.

Err, how wrong can you get. What an amazing, down to earth lady, we got on so well that within hours we were ripping each-other to bits with the banter - to the point that we were both told separately to tone it down a bit. We both laughed so much about that.

We didn't really discuss the way we clicked on the trip until the final dinner back in Marrakech - alcohol may have had something to do with the heart to heart discussion. Anyway, in a nutshell she described how throughout her life she had struggled to be accepted, even in her circle of close and more or less equally privileged friends. Bottom line was that she reveled in the banter because it indicated to her that I "accepted" her. Obviously it was the case that I did indeed feel comfortable enough with her to engage in the level of banter that we did. 

She said she didn't expect me to necessarily get it but I absolutely did, because my experiences at times both in terms of education, corporate and social life were the opposite side of the same coin. People would tend to discriminate against me because "he comes from Essex" and perhaps because I have the archetypal accent (which apparently drifts towards the Antipodes when I try to pronounce my words clearly). On more than one occasion, I found myself correcting an assertion that I was "from Essex and proud of it" with "from Essex and refuse to be made to feel ashamed about it".

Nowt to do with race or skin colour, just identifying as different from a given "norm" which by definition is very much subjective anyway.

[SpringDon]

39 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What I dont understand is why they feel they need to preach about injustice and inequality in life,  from their ivory towers ?
How did they get this life , that EVERYONE  , white, black , brown , can only dream of , when the world is such a racist place, and all the odds are (allegedly) stacked against them ?

Black and Asian politicians , many with cut glass , private school accents , talking about how theyve 'struggled' , Im sorry , but privilege doesnt always come from being white.
Lewis Hamilton was born into a wealthy family, he was apparently a spoilt brat, and still is, yet he seems to think he can speak for those who really have suffered?

I dont think so.

He was born into reasonably well off family and helped by the fact his father worked two jobs. Club racing has virtually no prize money and almost no sponsors (at least financially). At the time he started, the number of coloured racers was vanishing small so I imagine he suffered a fair amount of abuse. There would have been a lot of years before he “made it”.

He perfectly entitled to his his opinions. But why would you go to a racing driver for an opinion on racial politics, in other words the problem is people giving weight to opinions from celebrities.

I will concede (by all accounts) he was spoilt.

[Hamster]

The world is a changing, it matters not if Arab slavery went on at the same time, let them rot in hell too. This man was dealing in human misery and for that his statute belongs in a stinking heap not a place of reverence. You can haul him up this time and maybe even again another time in the future but eventually it will find its rightful place in the bottom of the sea. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Hamster

[Modafinale]

38 minutes ago, Hamster said:

The world is a changing, it matters not if Arab slavery went on at the same time, let them rot in hell too. This man was dealing in human misery and for that his statute belongs in a stinking heap not a place of reverence. You can haul him up this time and maybe even again another time in the future but eventually it will find its rightful place in the bottom of the sea. 

What part of the world is or has changed in the last few hundred years ? 
obviously technically removed ?

well the poor people probably most of us on here are in a much better place and have a longer and better life.

a few people are very rich, not much changed there ! Sports men still can achieve improvement to their social and financial status.

life is better than it has been for the majority of people on earth at the moment 

[TRINITY]

8 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Wrong answer.

Bristol, as we know it today would not exist without benevolence of slave traders with guilty consciences.  

Whilst I totally agree with the point. Let's not forget Bristol also benefitted from a massive tobacco industry and that killed large numbers as well

[The Heron]

22 hours ago, Modafinale said:

Question should Lewis Hamilton tweet about black oppression and removal of slavery Statue’s ?

 

The reason I ask is because he makes millions of dollars driving for Mercedes who 70 years ago also made lots of Deutschmark’s working for the Adolf Hitler and using slave labourers from concentration camps ? 
 

I must add I’m being Devils advocate, just wondering if anyone else thinks it’s slightly short sighted or foolish  

What he needs to do is get on with what he's paid for. 

[Gordon R]

Anthony Joshua supports the movement that dumped the Colston statue into the dock. Whilst Colson made money from the slave trade he supported many charitable causes. He became a better person, despite his past.

Joshua is a former drug dealer, who now prefers to be known for his boxing rather than his dreadful past. 

It seems like a bit of double standards. he wants to be judged for what he became - a luxury he doesn't afford to others.

[zipdog]

On 08/06/2020 at 22:42, Modafinale said:

Question should Lewis Hamilton tweet about black oppression and removal of slavery Statue’s ?

 

The reason I ask is because he makes millions of dollars driving for Mercedes who 70 years ago also made lots of Deutschmark’s working for the Adolf Hitler and using slave labourers from concentration camps ? 
 

I must add I’m being Devils advocate, just wondering if anyone else thinks it’s slightly short sighted or foolish  

 

I am in favour of pulling down the statue, many people died in terrible circumstances and lived horrendous lives to enrich one man. 

Mercedes is a living breathing company and whilst may have a chequered passed has the ability to change, learn and adapt. The same way I would not be in favour of pulling down schools or hospitals which are built in his name. They are living a breathing organism. 

A drug dealer who has also made a lot of money should just give a bit away to charity. Not only then will his crimes be forgiven by the world, but people will also defend a statue in his honour!!

 

[zipdog]

47 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Anthony Joshua supports the movement that dumped the Colston statue into the dock. Whilst Colson made money from the slave trade he supported many charitable causes. He became a better person, despite his past.

Joshua is a former drug dealer, who now prefers to be known for his boxing rather than his dreadful past. 

It seems like a bit of double standards. he wants to be judged for what he became - a luxury he doesn't afford to others.

In light of my post above I also would not support a statue of Anthony Joshua, and I would not be in the least bit bothered if someone pulled it down.

[toontastic]

I see the statues not as a symbol of slave owners/slavery but as a symbol of mans ability to change. Colson and Rhodes have statues celebrating the good they did with their money not the bad they did to earn it.

Oskar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party and an example of mans ability to change. He is buried on mount Zion in Israel. We honour him not for being a Nazi but for the lives he saved.  

[Sako7mm]

17 hours ago, Hamster said:

The world is a changing, it matters not if Arab slavery went on at the same time, let them rot in hell too. This man was dealing in human misery and for that his statute belongs in a stinking heap not a place of reverence. You can haul him up this time and maybe even again another time in the future but eventually it will find its rightful place in the bottom of the sea. 

Judging the actions of yesterday by the standards of today is a pointless exercise.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Oskar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party and an example of mans ability to change. He is buried on mount Zion in Israel. We honour him not for being a Nazi but for the lives he saved.  

A decent example.

[Mice!]

On 09/06/2020 at 09:16, udderlyoffroad said:

Wrong answer.

Bristol, as we know it today would not exist without benevolence of slave traders with guilty consciences.  They built schools, bequeathed scholarships (including to one of my farm-labourer ancestors) and so forth.

To tear down this part of history simply because it doesn't fit the latest fad for mob-rule as some kind atonement for past sins is a pathetically weak argument.  Anybody who thinks that statue was 'revered' is completely mis-guided.

I understand toppling Saddam's statue, or Lenin, or (insert crazed dictator here) - because that happened in living memory and the people tearing down said edifice suffered under their despotic regime.  But none of the rentamob has suffered because of Colston's actions.  Indeed, if they were students in Bristol, they benefited from it.

As for Hamilton, maybe he should look closer to home, that is, Switzerland, and start lecturing the Swiss about their lack of diversity.  Also, why does he insist on wearing girl's earrings?

Very well said. 

 

On 09/06/2020 at 09:38, Gordon R said:

If there had been no statue already, one would hardly have been erected, but it is part of history. I doubt that many thought what a great man he was. Some will point out that he made money from slavery. I would have thought it better to have kept it as a reminder of how far the World has come. Not very far according to some, but I cannot agree with them.

What is the view on Churchill - suddenly labelled a racist?

Until all this kicked off I had never heard of Colston, and I won't be looking into him, it was a few hundred years ago after all.

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Very well said. 

 

Until all this kicked off I had never heard of Colston, and I won't be looking into him, it was a few hundred years ago after all.

Feel sorry for my neighbour named after him. 

[Mice!]

12 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Anthony Joshua supports the movement that dumped the Colston statue into the dock. Whilst Colson made money from the slave trade he supported many charitable causes. He became a better person, despite his past.

Joshua is a former drug dealer, who now prefers to be known for his boxing rather than his dreadful past. 

It seems like a bit of double standards. he wants to be judged for what he became - a luxury he doesn't afford to others.

I knew AJ had been a wrong un but wasn't sure what he'd done,  but I doubt many have bullied or made racist remarks within his ear shot.

Madness 

[Gordon R]

I honestly thought he was better than that. Very disappointed in him.