London Best Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Millimetres? I thought this was England! Next we will have ordering a 0.568 litre of beer or be the proud parents of a 3.67kg baby. I do apologise, old chap, not my usual style and you are , of course, quite right. 9 hours ago, Terry2016 said: Have the chambers extended to 2.75 then problem solved. if they make steel in 2.5 not an issue... if they don't ... not an issue. I have a pair of best english guns. I will use 2.5 if they make them, if they do not .. get the chambers extended.. job done or bin them and get a modern gun and look trendy with upside down barrels 🙂 I realise this is one solution, but with all the attendant risks of re-proof and the expense involved. Upside down barrels? Go and wash your mouth out boy! I will never have a gun by Dago Upside-Downo. Seriously, I would derive no pleasure from using one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 With all the commotion over Lead shot being banned can I just say :- "Lest We Forget" it is a VOLUNTARY ban so forget the vouluntary ban and shoot a cartridge that is fairly cheap and very efficient at what it is designed for . Shoot LEAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Salopian said: With all the commotion over Lead shot being banned can I just say :- "Lest We Forget" it is a VOLUNTARY ban so forget the vouluntary ban and shoot a cartridge that is fairly cheap and very efficient at what it is designed for . Shoot LEAD. Planning on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I will use lead until the law prevents me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Following the joint announcement from shooting and rural organisations of a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting over the next five years, BASC is kickstarting new initiatives to help members and the wider community. Leading by example, we have launched a series of sustainable ammunition days providing bespoke opportunities to members. BASC’s sustainable ammunition days provide members with the opportunity to try non-lead loads and understand more about their shotgun’s capability. Some quotes from our first 2 day event: “Yes, the shot is effective and breaks the clays well, although some of the loads were a little more punchy than the usual lead shot.” – Terry-Anne B. “For my level of shooting it did not make a great deal of difference. It certainly did not make it worse.” – Michael H. “Hard hitting, accurate, equal, or better than lead.” – Peter B. “I found no difference when shooting clays, would like to try on game.” – Sean A. “No real difference between the two, walking away with a new favourite brand.” – Sam G. “I want to move to steel and biodegradable for game shooting.” – Peter F. “It is just a question of getting to know the cartridge and get some practice with them.” – Simon E. “Already have confidence in steel shot and have no concerns about the future.” – Ian C. “I was worried before because you see a lot of mixed opinions both good and bad. After trying them I will be changing over.” – Mathew H. “Excellent, the steel shot cartridges performed very well. I was particularly impressed with the quality kills.” – Richard A Click here to find out more Sound great what game where you shooting or was this just clays so not a relevant test for game days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaylor91 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 hours ago, WalkedUp said: Millimetres? I thought this was England! Next we will have ordering a 0.568 litre of beer or be the proud parents of a 3.67kg baby. As the father of a recent addition the hospital now do weights in kgs I have to convert to lbs and oz after every weigh in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Why are BASC advertising these things like some cheap US infomercial? 'Mrs Imaginary from madeuptown says BASC are the best organisation at anything ever!' Whats in it for them? as a members organisation we should be told the financial consideration for these 'reviews', will fees be reduced as they are now a commercial enterprise advertising stuff we have campaigned as a body to not want (a bit like tampon adverts on channel4, i don't need those either - at least channel 4 is free for putting up with its adverts) BASC - Fight Packham etc, protect shooting and shooting businesses and not just punt fashionable stuff ( money on a BASC BLM Tshirts soon?).. Or be a free organisation where you make your money by exploiting your membership, don't be both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, PPP said: Why are BASC advertising these things like some cheap US infomercial? 'Mrs Imaginary from madeuptown says BASC are the best organisation at anything ever!' Whats in it for them? as a members organisation we should be told the financial consideration for these 'reviews', will fees be reduced as they are now a commercial enterprise advertising stuff we have campaigned as a body to not want (a bit like tampon adverts on channel4, i don't need those either - at least channel 4 is free for putting up with its adverts) BASC - Fight Packham etc, protect shooting and shooting businesses and not just punt fashionable stuff ( money on a BASC BLM Tshirts soon?).. Or be a free organisation where you make your money by exploiting your membership, don't be both! They have their agenda, and it does not appear to put the shooters first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 A steel cartridge breaks clays …. who knew !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Welsh Warrior , Do you know , I never knew that a 1oz steel cartridge having more pellets per ounce than a lead cartridge would break clays that were out to 30 yards , absolutely amazing . I am fairly sure that they may also kill game at that range , providing I use a pellet size two sizes larger than my Lead cartridges . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 The real purpose of the trial and the article is so that BASC can say "Look what were doing to promote the VOLUNTARY switch to alternative shot." when a generally unsympathetic government asks "What are you doing to promote alternative shot materials? If the answer is "nothing" then we`ll slap a complete ban on lead shot overnight". This is sound strategic positioning from BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, mudpatten said: The real purpose of the trial and the article is so that BASC can say "Look what were doing to promote the VOLUNTARY switch to alternative shot." when a generally unsympathetic government asks "What are you doing to promote alternative shot materials? If the answer is "nothing" then we`ll slap a complete ban on lead shot overnight". This is sound strategic positioning from BASC. Perhaps they could have given us a in-depth insight to the cartridges used on the day and possibly how they ran the day in the middle of a lockdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mudpatten said: The real purpose of the trial and the article is so that BASC can say "Look what were doing to promote the VOLUNTARY switch to alternative shot." when a generally unsympathetic government asks "What are you doing to promote alternative shot materials? If the answer is "nothing" then we`ll slap a complete ban on lead shot overnight". This is sound strategic positioning from BASC. EU member states are currently voting on EC proposals to ban the use of lead shot over all wetlands including peatlands, a ban on the use of lead shot within 100m of wetlands, and a vague ban on the possession of lead shot when shooting on or within 100m of wetlands. The formal 21 day written vote by member states ends on 15 July and we continue to support a lobbying effort by hunting organisations across Europe to ensure that the EC proposals are rejected. For more info see BASC fights EU lead ammunition restrictions BASC will continue to fight against disproportionate and unsubstantiated restrictions on the use of lead ammunition. We have been leading this fight for 40 years. If the EC proposals mentioned above are passed that could lead to further restrictions in the UK within 2 years and viable alternatives to lead ammunition are simply not yet available in sufficient quantities or calibres either here or in mainland Europe. At the same time, together with eight other UK organisations, we are encouraging a smooth voluntary transition away from the use of lead shot for live quarry over the next five years. These areas of work are not mutually exclusive. In summary we are working to prevent politically motivated bans whilst encouraging a five year research and development period for viable alternatives for live quarry shooting. Edited July 2, 2020 by Conor O'Gorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 Conor , You say BASC has been leading the fight for 40 years ! May I ask how many of those fourty were led by John Swift ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: BASC will continue to fight against disproportionate and unsubstantiated restrictions on the use of lead ammunition. We have been leading this fight for 40 years. The January 2020 issue of Shooting and Conservation magazine said BASC had submitted evidence that “…..will help ECHA prepare its restriction proposal …..”, a choice of words that made people wonder whether the UK shooting organisations were deliberately pursuing an anti-lead agenda. Six months later, the July 2020 issue says BASC is trying "..... to ensure that legislation restricting use of lead ammunition around wetlands is NOT taken forward". It rather sounds as though the ECHA may have decided to ignore BACS’s opinion. I have not yet seen the evidence submitted to ECHA on my behalf and funded from my BASC subscription. Did I miss something, or is that evidence being withheld from the membership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 This may seem like a silly question but why are we concerned about what Europe is passing in regards lead shot when we are no longer a part of Europe? I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick so please don't eat me over it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51/50 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 On 02/07/2020 at 09:17, London Best said: I will use lead until the law prevents me. Same here & every shooter i personally know is of the same opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 Gentlemen!. we are Debating the shot media equivalent of the merits of a 3.5hp lawnmower to a 4hp lawnmower. They both cut grass. Steel is here its working brilliantly , use it forget the specific gravity numbers just go out and enjoy the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 5 hours ago, lancer425 said: Gentlemen!. we are Debating the shot media equivalent of the merits of a 3.5hp lawnmower to a 4hp lawnmower. They both cut grass. Steel is here its working brilliantly , use it forget the specific gravity numbers just go out and enjoy the sport. If i had to, id use steel. But with lead on offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry2016 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) Gamebore have now released the Dark Storm precision steel with the new quad seal. These look very good.... another manufacturer from the uk supporting the transition ... I love the Dark Storm clay and game loads I hope these perform as well. Edited July 3, 2020 by Terry2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Terry2016 said: Gamebore have now released the Dark Storm precision steel with the new quad seal. These look very good.... another manufacturer from the uk supporting the transition ... I love the Dark Storm clay and game loads I hope these perform as well. Do they have bio-wads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 There cant be that many 2 5 inch old english guns out there surely? Guess it a choice between evolving or giving up. Apparently gamebore load 2.5 steel for denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 For anyone interested in more detail about the EC proposals please read this article by the European Shooting Sports Forum Restricting lead gunshot over wetlands: Why is the European Commission proposal so problematic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, grahamch said: There cant be that many 2 5 inch old english guns out there surely? Guess it a choice between evolving or giving up. Apparently gamebore load 2.5 steel for denmark I Did not think there would be many 2.5 either, but tens of thousands got a mention here, " On 01/07/2020 at 19:09, London Best said: And how many of the cartridges supplied would have fitted an English game gun with the traditional 2 1/2 inch chambers, as used by tens of thousands of game shooters?". 4 hours ago, cookoff013 said: If i had to, id use steel. But with lead on offer Lead is dead its time to move on, and the move is just not worth fretting about. we have far more issues threatening shooting than a shot type change. the wads will become available "non Plastic". in time. just move on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted July 4, 2020 Report Share Posted July 4, 2020 Lancer , You keep promoting the use of Steel . Why ? When Lead is cheaper , more efficient , readily available . Steel cartridges £340 per thousand , Lead £189 per thousand . Steel as a commodity is cheaper than Lead , so why the rip off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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