Rob85 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 So I finally got to have my first go with using steel shot cartridges on a little educational foray over my closest permission. So I purchased a single box of GB Rapid Steel, 32g shot size 3(sadly if like me you are keeping costs down they are plastic wad). My experience with the cartridge has completely dispelled any worries at all about the viability of steel shot cartridges. The gun used was my felix sarasketa which is a double trigger over/under non ejector from 1983 with half/full chokes, half measuring at 0.025" of choke and the full measuring 0.049" of choke, quite tight for putting steel through but i decided to go for it as when you look at the muzzles the barrel walls are quite meaty. So as to the lethality of the cartridges, I was in the middle of setting up a pattern sheet when two crows flew over at (for me) extreme range, these would have been decently high pheasant territory and i decided to give it a go, they went over my head by the time I picked up my gun and i took the lead bird like a driven pheasant that had went past me, swung through with my father in laws old method of bum, belly, beak, BOOM, and gave it the full choke barrel. Never in my life have I seen a crow wallopped so hard, it folded and came down like a meteor, for an idea of the height/range it took about 4-5 seconds it seemed to come down and landed around 150 yards away in the marsh so I couldn't retrieve it with the flooding. For my first shot with a steel cartridge i was expecting it to be incapable, or maybe i was hoping it was so i could thumb my nose at it but i actually stood there with my gob open completely astonished at the performance. Finally got round to the patterns, I measured the half choke pattern at 30 yards to throw all the shot inside a circle of 27 inches, the most dense part of the shot pattern was within 15 inches. The full choke barrel was throwing its pattern at the same range inside a circle of 20 inches with the dense part of the pattern inside 10 inches. This explains how it managed to work so well at range. It means my gun is going to shred pigeons at decoying ranges though so it looks like I'll be getting chokes reamed out. Recoil is certainly manageable. Maybe a bit stiffer in a light side by side but nothing a nice leather covered pad wouldn't ease. So in conclusion if anyone is worried about tackling a high pheasant with a cheap standard pressure steel(albeit plasticwad) cartridge, you are worrying needlessly. For £7.50 for 25 bangs these GBs don't break the bank either. I'm a convert to steel when I need them over wetlands, yes I'll probably continue to use lead while it's available also but I will certainly be buying more steel in future without worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Its the 3s that made that cartridge work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimo22 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 I have been using the Gamebore silver steel for several seasons on duck and my averages are no different than with lead. There seems to be a real anti steel attitude on most sites which is completely unwarranted. Sure will not use it through my old 16 bore Greener but sure an alternative will be available when required. Know one gun who has gone over to steel completely and says he prefers it to lead and can sell the meat easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 My only problem is eating a duck shot with steel is not very tooth friendly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted August 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: Its the 3s that made that cartridge work.. In my opinion it was probably the pattern that done it at that range, with the recommendation to go up 2 shot sizes to get the density required this cartridge would have been an equivalent of a lead size 5 with a decent pattern. Certainly for close range decoyed pigeons this cartridge and gun combo are absolutely the wrong thing but this will be for further testing, I'll be looking to buy a 28 or 30g steel in size 5 or 6 to try in more open chokes for this. This is just my opinion and experience this far so I'm not in any way trying to shoot down yours and i welcome the debate 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dipper said: My only problem is eating a duck shot with steel is not very tooth friendly? Get one of these... https://www.garrett.com/sport/pro-pointer 😁 Edited August 31, 2020 by Officer Barbrady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Tried a few myself yesterday 28 gram 6 shot through 1/4 chokes I shall be trying another brand/ cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 ONE CLAY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Just now, London Best said: ONE CLAY? Did you want me to pick up all that I hit and didn’t break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, cookoff013 said: Its the 3s that made that cartridge work.. Wrong! I shot a fair few Canada’s with 32 gram steel 4’s, and a LOT of duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, dipper said: My only problem is eating a duck shot with steel is not very tooth friendly? This. I will not eat and not buy any game that I believe has been shot with steel. And when...as they will...the "no win no fee" lawsuits start stacking up against the likes of Waitrose for tooth damage they will cease selling any game. Period. Wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, dipper said: My only problem is eating a duck shot with steel is not very tooth friendly? You must have better teeth than me as I don't find chewing lead much fun ether! I am going to try to get a slab of fiber wad steel for a sim day in a couple of weeks and hand them out, should be interesting to see what happens with half a dozen people trying them at the same time. Edited August 31, 2020 by bluesj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob85 Posted August 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 48 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: This. I will not eat and not buy any game that I believe has been shot with steel. And when...as they will...the "no win no fee" lawsuits start stacking up against the likes of Waitrose for tooth damage they will cease selling any game. Period. Wait and see. I doubt that there will be any lawsuits. They put warnings on packaged chicken warning of the possibility of bones being there. They will do the same with any game food where there's the possibility of pellets being there to shift responsibility to the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, enfieldspares said: This. I will not eat and not buy any game that I believe has been shot with steel. And when...as they will...the "no win no fee" lawsuits start stacking up against the likes of Waitrose for tooth damage they will cease selling any game. Period. Wait and see. We'll be waiting forever because it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 I've been using Gamebore Super Steel 21gram on clays for a while now. I often hand out a few when folk ask what I'm using and have had no complaints. Fired through a Miroku MK38 Sporter, zero recoil (no recoil from 21gram lead either) no difference in range to others using 28gram lead. No difference in my averages either. Bought in bulk from Just Cartridges they work out less than £4.00 for a box. I normally only ever use 21gram on clays as I'm non competitive and don't believe that 24gram or 28gram give me any real extra edge. I shoot skeet and Imp-Cly chokes cos I do. Still on lead for pigeon or corvids 30gram(plas)or 32gram(fibre) till I use my stocks as I buy in bulk. Then I'll re evaluate. I usually shoot cylinder on the semi or the above if on the Miroku, cos I do. I only use lead on the .410 cos that's what i have in stock for now. I honestly think it's a fuss about nothing currently, but like most I was really worried at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Old farrier said: Tried a few myself yesterday 28 gram 6 shot through 1/4 chokes I shall be trying another brand/ cartridge A common occurrence with lead also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: A common occurrence with lead also. Ah but the clays were stood up at various distance from 25 yards to 40 yards at 35 Yards clay pictured it was just knocked OverAlong with a few others at 40 yards not able to knock it over but smashed it with a 28 gram 8 Rc I appreciate it isn’t very scientific but it’s what I fancied doing on the day I chose the rabbit clays because I had some personaly thinking that the Steel cartridges had Run out of steam at 35/40 yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Centrepin said: I've been using Gamebore Super Steel 21gram on clays for a while now. I often hand out a few when folk ask what I'm using and have had no complaints. Fired through a Miroku MK38 Sporter, zero recoil (no recoil from 21gram lead either) no difference in range to others using 28gram lead. No difference in my averages either. Bought in bulk from Just Cartridges they work out less than £4.00 for a box. I normally only ever use 21gram on clays as I'm non competitive and don't believe that 24gram or 28gram give me any real extra edge. I shoot skeet and Imp-Cly chokes cos I do. My local straw bales ground only stocks that cartridge. I was late the other day and so bought cartridges down there rather than mess about breaking into a slab in storage. Didn’t think about the fact that they were too light to cycle my semi auto so I had to manually rack each cartridge 🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Old farrier size six shot will be running out of steam at 40 yards on rabbit clays. But looking at the clays pattern looks to have failed. The clay should still break at that range. Try tighter chokes. I mixed steel and lead carts in my pockets years ago and just randomly shot whatever I put in the gun. Didn't know by the breaks or shooting them which was which. Both were 28g 7.5 shot, some long clays were shot too. If not used try 1/2 or 3/4 choke see if it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 8 hours ago, figgy said: Old farrier size six shot will be running out of steam at 40 yards on rabbit clays. But looking at the clays pattern looks to have failed. The clay should still break at that range. Try tighter chokes. I mixed steel and lead carts in my pockets years ago and just randomly shot whatever I put in the gun. Didn't know by the breaks or shooting them which was which. Both were 28g 7.5 shot, some long clays were shot too. If not used try 1/2 or 3/4 choke see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the input as said I was just experimenting not trying to be negative about the cartridges just what I found on the day can you recommend a gunsmith that puts choke into fixed choke guns ?? im sure the cartridge manufacturer Do far more extensive testing than me and in a few years they will sort it out 😊👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Old farrier said: im sure the cartridge manufacturer Do far more extensive testing than me and in a few years they will sort it out 😊👍 Don’t think even the cartridge manufactures can get round the laws of physics, steel shot will never have the same energy as lead shot at any given distance or size of pellet equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Don’t think even the cartridge manufactures can get round the laws of physics, steel shot will never have the same energy as lead shot at any given distance or size of pellet equivalent. I’m ever optimistic 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 14 hours ago, WalkedUp said: My local straw bales ground only stocks that cartridge. I was late the other day and so bought cartridges down there rather than mess about breaking into a slab in storage. Didn’t think about the fact that they were too light to cycle my semi auto so I had to manually rack each cartridge 🙈 Yup, been there, but only because they're 65mm, I found a 70mm case recycled fine. My gun is rated to recycle 24 - 66 but only in 70mm or longer. Unfortunately every gun maker appears to miss the minimum case lengths off the adverts. I can't recycle anything no matter what the grams(or ounces) if the case is not at least 2 3/4" (70mm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said: Don’t think even the cartridge manufactures can get round the laws of physics, steel shot will never have the same energy as lead shot at any given distance or size of pellet equivalent. very true, but they can re- brand the problem, to an advantage. "our cartridges now contain steelium technology" for harder hitting, full legal high power at moderate range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: very true, but they can re- brand the problem, to an advantage. "our cartridges now contain steelium technology" for harder hitting, full legal high power at moderate range I don't think the small print is small enough, it can still be read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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