Is this the Final, Final, Final Deadline for a Deal

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Mighty Ruler said:

If there is another Scottish independence referendum it can’t be a repeat of the Brexit fiasco, they need to work out the agreement first and then vote on it.

and who would agree the agreement..............its a top idea..........but my god....it would be like brexit X 1000...

 

you would be better off putting Scotland up for sale...and deal with the tyre kickers......

eg...

FOR SALE..

Scotland....several, not very careful owners....blah blah blah

OVNO....

Edited December 25, 2020 by ditchman

[243deer]

51 minutes ago, ditchman said:

and who would agree the agreement..............its a top idea..........but my god....it would be like brexit X 1000...

 

you would be better off putting Scotland up for sale...and deal with the tyre kickers......

eg...

FOR SALE..

Scotland....several, not very careful owners....blah blah blah

OVNO....

if England offered 5 billion a year for someone to take Scotland off our hands we would be 5 billion + per year better off, but then money is not everything and I have a fair few friends in Scotland who do not exactly agree with the idea of independance

Edited December 25, 2020 by 243deer

[ditchman]

13 minutes ago, 243deer said:

if England offered 5 billion a year for someone to take Scotland off our hands we would be 5 billion + per year better off, but then money is not everything and I have a fair few friends in Scotland who do not exactly agree with the idea of independance

and so do i ..........but they never stand up and let their voices be heard.........all we hear from scotland everyday...is the hate from the scottish representertive ...sturgeon................she IS scotland

which is a shame as there are many good grounded brave old school scots up there...but we never hear of them....at one time i was proud that scotland was part of the union........they stood for hard working clever brave...part of the union

but now...........its all sturgeonism........

[fern01]

6 hours ago, derbyduck said:

there's also been rumblings from Yorkshire !

Yorkshire is about the same population as Scotland

Yorkshire Nationalist Party has a nice ring to it

I would vote for it and even argue with Andrew Neil, Peston, Marr and rest of them on TV about why we should be given our freedom

[Rim Fire]

On 24/12/2020 at 23:18, 12gauge82 said:

Yes true and if the Scots genuinely want independence good luck to them, I believe in democracy. But at the same time the Scots must not be railroaded by a leader who is hell bent on getting what they want. I don't believe for one second NS is that worried about being in the EU and has simply hijacked it to get her own way. As for Wales, I don't think the appetite is their for independence, bar a very small minority. 

As you say a very small minority I don't think Wales wants independence 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Anybody else catch Rachel Reeves MP on the BBC this morning, managed to make herself and her party look really quite silly while the interviewer kept pointing out how pointless her argument was as the Labour Party will vote with the Government this evening.

[JohnfromUK]

I didn't, but all politicians are a bit check mated now.

There is a deal on the table. 

Not everyone will like all parts of it, but it is there and it is the only one there will be. 

The only alternative is a 'no deal' and most agree that is not an easy road.

With Starmer whipping his ill disciplined crew - some of whom will obey the whip, and Johnson having an 80 seat majority, and (now) the support of the ERG - there is no doubt it will pass the commons.  There is therefore no real role for the opposition here as they are officially supporting the bill - and know it will pass anyway.

[Newbie to this]

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Emphatic!

[wymberley]

Oh well, the French will revert to buying their (our) sausages from under the counter once more, but at least they'll have plenty of (our) fish.

[12gauge82]

I do hope some of the remainiacs can eat some humble pie and now admit that brexiteers were right in saying that if the government was free of the infighting from our own snivelling polititions like Blair who sided with the EU before the UK, a good deal could be achieved. Just imagine how good the deal would have been with no home interference, farage running negotiations and no withdrawal agreement signed up to by Boris due to the backstabbing from our own tratorus politicians. 

[button]

Well Scotland has had the highest daily cases reported over the last two years? What were they doing in the Scottish Parliament yesterday? Debating Brexit and voting not to consent to the agreement, it's happening! Concentrate on running the country of which they are doing a shocking job at anyway! And that's been generous 

Total embarrassment 

[Vince Green]

I think Boris did a good job all things considered. 

[button]

21 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I think Boris did a good job all things considered. 

Would agree 100% even better that Nicola and co said it was impossible, but in true SNP style it's never good enough

[Gordon R]

It is a genuine tragedy that all most people see of Scotland is Nicola Sturgeon. She has a grip on Scottish politics, at the present time, but how long will it take before people realise that she is all rhetoric and not very good at running a country.

Her childlike solutions are an embarrassment, but it doesn't stop her mouth from moving. She talks as if Scotland was in chains and needed the freedom to join the EU.

A pipedream.

When people argue that Scotland doesn't have the economy to join, doesn't have its own currency or would be vetoed by Spain, she just says "Strong for Scotland" and says she will find a way. The mysterious way is never explained, but that doesn't seem to matter.

[243deer]

It is possible that the EU would not let Scotland rejoin as NS would probably make a term of her presidency part of the deal.

The EU should be enormously grateful to the UK for removing Bliar from that particular disaster also.

I cannot say the exact connection but I know of a person who was an advisor to Bliar. They say he was the most obnoxious, self-centred, hypocritical politician they ever had the misfortune to meet and that Bliar was an entirely accurate description. This person has always kept to themselves about what went on with this one exception.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, 243deer said:

It is possible that the EU would not let Scotland rejoin

It would certainly present considerable difficulties - just as the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic has needed special rules for NI (one of the less than satisfactory aspects of the 'deal'.)  It would be another very porous border between the independant soverign UK and the EU (member) state of Scotland.

 

9 minutes ago, 243deer said:

I cannot say the exact connection but I know of a person who was an advisor to Bliar. They say he was the most obnoxious, self-centred, hypocritical politician they ever had the misfortune to meet and that Bliar was an entirely accurate description.

I have heard very similar from someone who was in a close working position with him.

[Walker570]

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It would certainly present considerable difficulties - just as the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic has needed special rules for NI (one of the less than satisfactory aspects of the 'deal'.)  It would be another very porous border between the independant soverign UK and the EU (member) state of Scotland.

 

I have heard very similar from someone who was in a close working position with him.

As the saying goes ...The eyes have it.  My old grandma used to have a saying when weighing people up...his eyes are too close together.............. and she was very rarely if ever wrong.  A persons eyes tell you a lot.

[Retsdon]

At least there'll be less red tape...LOL!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948978/December_BordersOPModel_Medium.pdf

[Walker570]

Let's face it,   businesses have all had four clear years to get their act in order.

[grrclark]

32 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

It is a genuine tragedy that all most people see of Scotland is Nicola Sturgeon. She has a grip on Scottish politics, at the present time, but how long will it take before people realise that she is all rhetoric and not very good at running a country.

Her childlike solutions are an embarrassment, but it doesn't stop her mouth from moving. She talks as if Scotland was in chains and needed the freedom to join the EU.

A pipedream.

When people argue that Scotland doesn't have the economy to join, doesn't have its own currency or would be vetoed by Spain, she just says "Strong for Scotland" and says she will find a way. The mysterious way is never explained, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Gordon, it is a curious phenomenon of Scottish politics right now that it is absolutely defined by the question of independence.  If you are pro Scexit then it is a vote for the SNP, or if you are particularly 'special' the Green Party, no matter what else.

The output of domestic, every day politics and governance is overlooked, every indiscretion or screw up is dismissed out of hand in favour of the bigger (own) goal.

In some ways it is not dissimilar to the Tory landslide that was predominantly a result of Brexit beliefs in the northern regions, albeit aided by the Corbyn factor.

The other phenomenon of Scottish politics just now is that the people of Scotland generally believe themselves to be politically well engaged and informed, despite objective scrutiny suggesting otherwise, but because they think they are the belief systems are even deeper rooted.  A bizarre irony in the more informed people think they are the more gullible they demonstrate themselves to be.  On both sides of the argument.

A final truism of politics in general is that that those who feel the most aggrieved are always the most vocal and there are no heavier shoulder chips in the whole world than the iScotland ones.  Nobody ever screamed the house down to demonstrate their ambivalence or indifference.  Quiet agreement is rather well named.

[ordnance]

Quote

It would certainly present considerable difficulties - just as the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic has needed special rules for NI (one of the less than satisfactory aspects of the 'deal'.)  It would be another very porous border between the independant soverign UK and the EU (member) state of Scotland.

Its as well we know not to trust politicians here.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned he would allow a post-Brexit border down the Irish Sea “over my dead body.

[grrclark]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

Its as well we know not to trust politicians here.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned he would allow a post-Brexit border down the Irish Sea “over my dead body.

Nobody ever would trust a BoJo statement on anything at all as being the absolute truth.  He is an inveterate liar, it is an innate part of his character.

[243deer]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It would certainly present considerable difficulties

Therein lies the problem with the EU and why so many voted to leave. The EU does do some very good work but it is so overshadowed by yet another layer of politics that folk are sick of. If a country wants to join, the EU should welcome them with open arms rather than imposing all sorts of conditions. The 'club' has become the worst kind of parasite on countries rather than developing a culture of fraternity. In true Orwellian style some EU countries are clearly more equal than others.

There is so much good the EU could have done, such as bringing the car manufacturers to order over their inflated claims of fuel efficiency - no action and everyone in the EU buying a new car is affected by this. They have also blatently ignored their own laws (surely thereby breaking some law along the way) by not ensuring that migrants entering the EU have to register in the country they enter.

A friend of mine I played golf with when I lived in Brussels was part of a 30 strong department in the EU studying 30mph/50kph speed limits - I have never seen the results of their work and I know he was on far more money than me.

I have sat in Kitty O'Shea's in Shuman (that is a district in Brussels by the way just around the corner from the EU commission), having a pint with a welsh MEP who informed me that even if they did not fly home, all MEP's are given 1st class return air tickets home every week. These can be cashed in if not used.

I am very glad not to be paying for these types of spending any longer

[Retsdon]

23 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Let's face it,   businesses have all had four clear years to get their act in order.

No, they haven't. They have had no idea what to plan for.  Until a week ago nobody even knew there was a trade deal forthcoming, let alone what it looked like. How can any business plan or budget for that?