Has anyone been challenged yet by the law for going out shooting

[Scully]

We can walk to shoot locally. Apparently someone a few days ago phoned the rozzers regarding shots being fired, but no one turned up. To be honest I have no idea where they would ‘turn up’ to, even if they had a mind to, and I doubt the rozzers would either! The Fells are a BIG area. 

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Old women being man handled and hand cuffed because they went for a walk and stopped to sit on a park bench? That’s saving lives?

Full story was that was an anti lockdown rally and clever filming by others attending. 

[Lloyd90]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

Full story was that was an anti lockdown rally and clever filming by others attending. 

 

There'll only be more lockdown rallies and civil disobedience if they try to take a hard handed approach to people. 

[ShootingEgg]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

There'll only be more lockdown rallies and civil disobedience if they try to take a hard handed approach to people. 

Maybe send them to France for water canons and rubber bullets then? 

Asking to go home then a fine if not done is hardly hard ha ded

[AVB]

31 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Full story was that was an anti lockdown rally and clever filming by others attending. 

The police believe that was the case however that’s just their opinion and the police have been know to lie before. Who knows. 

[Westley]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Old women being man handled and hand cuffed because they went for a walk and stopped to sit on a park bench? That’s saving lives? 
 

There’s illegal raves and gathering that are going on. The police turned up to one but didn’t break it up because the kids threw some bottles at them. They just waited for them to leave. 
 

But an old woman on a bench is handcuffed and taken off? And that’s fine? 
 

There’s nothing wrong with the guidance considering the situation we are in, but the actions of some individuals officers or even some Forces are not appropriate and they should be open to criticism and scrutiny! 

Best way to deal with illegal raves, secure the doors and chuck some CS gas in, given half an hour and they would not want to carry on 'raving'. Oh, and an added bonus, no Police Officers get injured.  Win, win situation  !     😂

[captainhastings]

3 hours ago, snow white said:

Captinhastings I would read what Basc are saying you can go shooting vermin if and you can drive to it.

 

You can drive for vermin control yes but if you fancy a bit of good old rough shooting or wildfowling on your lonesome you need to walk. So this fine by me. Keeps me sane after grafting all week and affects no one. The anglers can go fishing the runners and cyclists can do what they want so now we have a small degree of wiggle room as well 

[snow white]

This lockdown is a waste of time it’s not going to work.

I got letters of farmers during last lockdown for vermin control and got renewed for this one I don’t see a sole when I am out.

[Longbower]

I have contacted my counties Rural Crime Liason officer, describing my 'Pest and Vermin control'  activities, and where. He kindly emailed a reply , stating it was ok for me to travel to fulfill my duties . I printed it out and laminated it along with a note from the land owners on the reverse, so It is in the car if challenged.

I believe every counties force has one, it maybe an idea to find and contact yours.

 

[ShootingEgg]

8 hours ago, Longbower said:

I have contacted my counties Rural Crime Liason officer, describing my 'Pest and Vermin control'  activities, and where. He kindly emailed a reply , stating it was ok for me to travel to fulfill my duties . I printed it out and laminated it along with a note from the land owners on the reverse, so It is in the car if challenged.

I believe every counties force has one, it maybe an idea to find and contact yours.

 

I asked for it in writing from feo and they rang back, would not write it down. Said its up to me if i feel its valid and within the rules 

[udderlyoffroad]

38 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

I asked for it in writing from feo and they rang back, would not write it down. Said its up to me if i feel its valid and within the rules 

Good, as it should be.

Why on earth would you want to promote a system where if someone comes along challenging your lawful activity, you wave your 'papers' in front of a supposed authority?  That way lies statism.  

By all means print out BASC's formal advice and/or the relevant part of the government webpage, as it may save you time should be challenged by an actual police officer.  But this is more for your reference, not to 'prove' you're entitled to do what your doing.

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Good, as it should be.

Why on earth would you want to promote a system where if someone comes along challenging your lawful activity, you wave your 'papers' in front of a supposed authority?  That way lies statism.  

By all means print out BASC's formal advice and/or the relevant part of the government webpage, as it may save you time should be challenged by an actual police officer.  But this is more for your reference, not to 'prove' you're entitled to do what your doing.

We are now in the third lockdown and most law abiding people should know by now what is what and stick to the rules and not look for loop holes to give them a bit more freedom than they are legally entitled to .

[udderlyoffroad]

16 minutes ago, marsh man said:

We are now in the third lockdown and most law abiding people should know by now what is what and stick to the rules and not look for loop holes to give them a bit more freedom than they are legally entitled to .

I respectfully disagree with most of that.

 

18 minutes ago, marsh man said:

We are now in the third lockdown and most law abiding people should know by now what is what

Despite the fact the explanation of the legislation on the gov.uk website is written in clear language, you do have to make a point of checking it regularly, as it changes far too often.

So many people seem to struggle with this, that I don't believe people know "what's what".   Obviously, if you hold an SGC or FAC, your reading comprehension should be of an acceptable standard...

 

21 minutes ago, marsh man said:

and not look for loop holes to give them a bit more freedom than they are legally entitled to .

English law is based on the concept that you are allowed to do whatever you like unless it is expressly forbidden, and clearly defined in law.  We do not, or at the very least should not have, 'catch all clauses' in legislation.

In other words, it is not 'a loophole', it is lawful unless expressly forbidden. 

And this must be written in the legislation, not just vague statements on a government website using weasel words such as 'you should' or 'avoid'.  That is not law.

And legitimate pest control is very much not a loophole.

Despite what you may think of them, BASC's expensive lawyers have studied the legislation, and given their interpretation of what is and isn't allowable.  Note, of course, that as it is not clearly defined, this is merely their interpretation, subject to being tested in a court of law.  But I would rather trust their interpretation of it than a jumped up member of the public's or a stressed response officer.  

Worst case scenario, and you're up before the beak, following BASC's formal advice might not be a defence in and of itself, but it will be at least a basis on which to defend your case, and demonstrate your good conduct.

 

[Walker570]

We have police wandering around a local village here with absolutely nothing to do. They have been sent out to control the non compliance hordes. They are bored stiff.

What a waste of man power.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

We have police wandering around a local village here with absolutely nothing to do. They have been sent out to control the non compliance hordes. They are bored stiff.

What a waste of man power.

Or they could be sat in their warm offices doing very little there too!

[McSpredder]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

We are now in the third lockdown and most law abiding people should know by now what is what and stick to the rules and not look for loop holes to give them a bit more freedom than they are legally entitled to .

The head of the Metropolitan Police was asked, on Radio4 this morning, whether BJ's much-publicised cycle ride complied with the law, and she was unable to answer the question.  

[AVB]

1 hour ago, McSpredder said:

The head of the Metropolitan Police was asked, on Radio4 this morning, whether BJ's much-publicised cycle ride complied with the law, and she was unable to answer the question.  

That’s funny because on the BBC Website they are reporting the following 

“Metropolitan Police Commissioner Dame Cressida **** told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the trip had not been "against the law - that's for sure”.”

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-55630164

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Todays Police Forces are allowed to change their collective mind!

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Good, as it should be.

Why on earth would you want to promote a system where if someone comes along challenging your lawful activity, you wave your 'papers' in front of a supposed authority?  That way lies statism.  

By all means print out BASC's formal advice and/or the relevant part of the government webpage, as it may save you time should be challenged by an actual police officer.  But this is more for your reference, not to 'prove' you're entitled to do what your doing.

Right so if i want to be able to cover myself when asked by a member of public and inform them im acting lawfully thats a bad thing. Im not saying we should carry round a ring binded folder but right now id rather be able to show I am well  Within my rights of being there. I'd rather that than to lose my ticket. If you're happy to go with no proof and then fight your corner, crack on

[Rim Fire]

37 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Right so if i want to be able to cover myself when asked by a member of public and inform them im acting lawfully thats a bad thing. Im not saying we should carry round a ring binded folder but right now id rather be able to show I am well  Within my rights of being there. I'd rather that than to lose my ticket. If you're happy to go with no proof and then fight your corner, crack on

It can only help not hinder if you carry given permission to carry out vermin control i had a copper ounce who insisted on waking up the farmer at 3am to find out if i had permission to say he was not happy was understatement 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Rim Fire

[AVB]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Right so if i want to be able to cover myself when asked by a member of public and inform them im acting lawfully thats a bad thing. Im not saying we should carry round a ring binded folder but right now id rather be able to show I am well  Within my rights of being there. I'd rather that than to lose my ticket. If you're happy to go with no proof and then fight your corner, crack on

I wouldn’t show anything to a member of the public. Why do you think you would lose your ticket? 

[Smokersmith]

The advice from BASC allowing shooting as a form of exercise is conditional on 2 items .. the first of these on travel pretty much screws up most shooting in England.

The advice in England on travel is that you should stay in your village, town, or part of the city where you live.

I don't know of many folks who will be able to get any shooting with that stipulation.

Is there any other advice specific for travel to Pest Control?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Right so if i want to be able to cover myself when asked by a member of public and inform them im acting lawfully thats a bad thing. Im not saying we should carry round a ring binded folder but right now id rather be able to show I am well  Within my rights of being there. I'd rather that than to lose my ticket. If you're happy to go with no proof and then fight your corner, crack on

With all due respect , even if we werent in the age of covid , would you feel that you had to justify your lawful activity to a member of the public ?

If someone unconnected to the land challenged me, I would first ask for their authority to ask.
If they are simply a member of the public on a right of way, they havent any.

1 minute ago, Smokersmith said:

Is there any other advice specific for travel to Pest Control?

Shooting-related essential work is permitted in England and it is reasonable to travel outside your local area to carry out that essential work. This includes essential bird and mammal pest control to protect crops or livestock such as the shooting and trapping of pest bird species under general licence; the management of rodents and rabbits; deer management as part of a plan agreed with and requested by the landowner. It is advised that you keep a copy of your shooting permission and a written request to undertake essential work with you so that you can present them if challenged by the authorities.

Game management work and gamekeeping activities such as management of game birds, conducting pest/predator control and undertaking habitat management are also permitted.

[Smokersmith]

Perfect ... thanks 

[Longbower]

9 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Good, as it should be.

Why on earth would you want to promote a system where if someone comes along challenging your lawful activity, you wave your 'papers' in front of a supposed authority?  That way lies statism.  

By all means print out BASC's formal advice and/or the relevant part of the government webpage, as it may save you time should be challenged by an actual police officer.  But this is more for your reference, not to 'prove' you're entitled to do what your doing.

 Even in 'normal' times, when parked out in the countryside , I leave a copy of my permission , on view in the car.  My Choice, I don't really care what anyone else thinks.