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On 23/02/2021 at 18:59, blackbird said:

It amazes me that plastic wad cartridges are not banned as we already have an environmentally friendly cartridge available (fibre wad)

To be honest, it wouldn’t bother me whilst we can still shoot lead if they banned it but, over the last few decades of being in the countryside, I see far more old discarded plastic cases than wads, which is counter intuitive. 
I can only assume that wads are actually breaking down over time.

 

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1 hour ago, chip000 said:

To be honest, it wouldn’t bother me whilst we can still shoot lead if they banned it but, over the last few decades of being in the countryside, I see far more old discarded plastic cases than wads, which is counter intuitive. 
I can only assume that wads are actually breaking down over time.

 

Sadly those wads aren’t really disintegrating over time. On grass systems they tend to become part of the grass matting - i.e. the grass tends to grow over them. On cultivated land they become part of the soil strata. In essence, we just need to stop using them, as they are incredibly persistent in most environments. Water courses are littered too. I find lots of them in rivers when fishing.
 

Also, the assumption that plastic always patterns better is a myth. Many plastic wads fail to open at the muzzle consistently and patterns can be highly variable. I would urge people to test a few good quality fibre cart’s - they are impressive. Nobody who kills high pheasants regularly with them ever wishes they were using a plastic wad instead.....!!!

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2 hours ago, chip000 said:

To be honest, it wouldn’t bother me whilst we can still shoot lead if they banned it but, over the last few decades of being in the countryside, I see far more old discarded plastic cases than wads, which is counter intuitive. 
I can only assume that wads are actually breaking down over time.

 

i think thats because you see cases along edge of field wereas wads end up in middle and ploughed in.

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2 hours ago, Fellside said:

Sadly those wads aren’t really disintegrating over time. On grass systems they tend to become part of the grass matting - i.e. the grass tends to grow over them. On cultivated land they become part of the soil strata. In essence, we just need to stop using them, as they are incredibly persistent in most environments. Water courses are littered too. I find lots of them in rivers when fishing.
 

Also, the assumption that plastic always patterns better is a myth. Many plastic wads fail to open at the muzzle consistently and patterns can be highly variable. I would urge people to test a few good quality fibre cart’s - they are impressive. Nobody who kills high pheasants regularly with them ever wishes they were using a plastic wad instead.....!!!

Agreed. The estate I pick up on banned plastic wads years ago and yet I pick up several every time I am out on the hill. Once in the bracken and heather there they stay unless I stumble on them.

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The BASC published an article today on the first year of their 5 year transition to non lead alternatives. With the exception of eley, from what I can see all the non lead alternatives in 20bore use a plastic wad. I for one don't wish to litter the countryside with plastic wads and will carry on using using lead until its outlawed or a suitable alternative is produced. 

Do, or will the large commercial shoots allow plastic wadded cartridges (for which the large proportion of non toxic cartridges. Ie steel used plastic wads. I guess they'll have no alternative to allow them which flys in the face of the whole sustainability argument.  

 

 

Edited by shalfordninja33
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39 minutes ago, shalfordninja33 said:

Do, or will the large commercial shoots allow plastic wadded cartridges. I guess they'll have no alternative to allow them

Not sure I follow?  The high end cartrdiges are mostly fibre aren't they?  As a relative newcomer, I've only shot fibre, both for clays and game, so don't know any different, and I'm not the only one.

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2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

As a relative newcomer, I've only shot fibre, both for clays and game, so don't know any different, and I'm not the only one.

Good man! Many that have shot for thirty or forty years have only shot plastic, and don’t know any better.

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I am also of the opinion that plastic wads are more detremental to the environment than lead. If they give better patterns than fibre, that's another debate.

On the plus side they are cheaper than fibre and I also find they keep barrels cleaner.

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Hi single use plastic is on the way out. Cartridge manufacturers have bio wads and more will follow. I don’t think a cartridge with different components will stop me using them. The environment is the in thing now, the school kids know all about plastics from school tv internet. I have five great grandkids, before the last lockdown I was opening a bag of used cases two of the girls told me off for having plastic. One stuck up for me saying grandad recycles them, I reload, l wouldn’t like to stand up in front of their school mates and teachers and explain why shooters use plastic and lead. Manufacturers have bio cartridges, I’ve used them in 20gauge shooting doesn’t just have a past it has a future.

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On 23/02/2021 at 19:09, London Best said:

Beats me why plastic wads were ever invented. We already had biodegradable wad (vegetable felt). Whoever thought it was a good idea to litter everywhere with plastic wants stringingup.

Plastic wads evolved in the late 60s through into the 70s  purely for one reason and one reason only. The cartridge manufacturers were creating faster loading machines and to handle the faster speeds they needed plastic wads because they could be fed automatically in the machines when fibre wads had to be fed by hand

So to convert the rather stuck in the mud old fashioned cartridge users huge campaigns about better patterns etc was carried out by american shooting magazines who were really in the pay of their advertisers.

No advantage of plastic wads has ever been proven in actual unbiased testing that I have seen. The only reason they exist is that they are cheaper. 

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2 hours ago, shalfordninja33 said:

Do, or will the large commercial shoots allow plastic wadded cartridges. I guess they'll have no alternative to allow them which flys in the face of the whole sustainability argument.  

 

 

No real gentleman would (or should) ever turn up at a "proper" shoot with a plastic cartridge, much less a plastic wad. It is just asking to have people tutting at you behind your back. These things are noticed and commented on although not to your face.

Might as well write CHAV on your forehead with a sharpie, gentlemen use paper cases and fibre wads

Edited by Vince Green
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1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Not sure I follow?  The high end cartrdiges are mostly fibre aren't they?  As a relative newcomer, I've only shot fibre, both for clays and game, so don't know any different, and I'm not the only one.

Sorry, I meant with reference to cartridges loaded with steel. I believe they’re pretty much all plastic wads. 

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

No real gentleman would (or should) ever turn up at a "proper" shoot with a plastic cartridge, much less a plastic wad. It is just asking to have people tutting at you behind your back. These things are noticed and commented on although not to your face.

Might as well write CHAV on your forehead with a sharpie, gentlemen use paper cases and fibre wads

I use exclusively fibre at the moment. I’m thinking more in relation to non lead loadings of which the majority are plastic wads. 

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This is a good thread and I think we all must face up to the fact that plastic wads dont have a long term future. 

As far as I am aware plastic wads are still used in the Olympics. If people want to ban plastic wads I think that shootings most high profile event must take the lead.

Then there is the CPSA ,they need to be more proactive and start to encourage non plastic registered events. 

I think we need to make the transition voluntary. If the wider anti gun brigade grasp this issue it gives them another reason to ban all forms of shooting

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3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I don't have any objection to plastic wads being used on clay grounds because they will eventually get picked up. Its a shame they are not recylable, wrong sort of plastic apparantly

Me neither. Single use plastic will get sorted eventually I reckon. 

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I’ve not shot plastic wads for 20 years and don’t wish to start again now however I’ve tried some modern steel this season that had plastic wads and the kills where poorer and the plastic wads add up to a non starter for me. 

Edited by welshwarrior
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hi scully  yes it’s single use plastic  the wad and the case. Plastics have gone full circle now. Its all about wildlife and the environment if we fire plastic wads with lead  or steel pellets or lead with bio felt wads we will never convince the public it’s ok and doesn’t do any harm. We need to try the alternative cartridges, it won’t be long before we have to. I have said before l have five great grandchildren they are back in school next week ,more learning about the environment. Children are environmentally friendly and they will let you know it. 

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10 hours ago, Gas seal said:

hi scully  yes it’s single use plastic  the wad and the case. Plastics have gone full circle now. Its all about wildlife and the environment if we fire plastic wads with lead  or steel pellets or lead with bio felt wads we will never convince the public it’s ok and doesn’t do any harm. We need to try the alternative cartridges, it won’t be long before we have to. I have said before l have five great grandchildren they are back in school next week ,more learning about the environment. Children are environmentally friendly and they will let you know it. 

I doubt the public have any idea about this issue or care unless they are wound up  by the media

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I remember using ELEY VIP a few years back that were loaded with photo degradable plastic (PDP) wads and remember the conversation I had with my RFD about the length of time it would take for such wads to totally bio-degrade. The answer was "Variable depends on how much sunlight gets to the wad, but about six months if fully exposed ".     

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