Sparkle Markle & Mail

[old'un]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

That applies to me as well - and it is not something I like because I would wish to continue to be non racist and inclusive, but I cannot help my dislike for some of the present divisions the minorities are deliberately opening up on what I see as 'made up' racial lines.

The UK overall is NOT a racist country - of that I am convinced - as indeed was the recent government enquiry led by a very diverse group of high profile individuals.  You only have to look at the diversity in cabinet, government, parliament etc. to see that.  There are of course racist individuals - just as there are for example anti Semitic individuals, but again we are not an anti Semitic country.

What 'rubs me up the wrong way' is that having got the present 'woke' attitudes to a high level of popularity, many of our long standing traditions, and memorials are being 'attacked', in some cases physically attacked.  By this I mean pulling down statues, renaming colleges, streets, buildings where they are named after some long dead person who was associated with practices (such as slavery) that are no longer acceptable, but were the norm in their day.  I also mean the 'positive discrimination' where jobs are advertised to certain sections of the community only rather than to the best applicant regardless of background, the differing legal and police treatment of minorities (e.g - what is known as 'playing the race card').

People of all backgrounds are welcome to join in and take part in society and government - but (for me anyway) to continue to run and evolve it along well developed lines based in history and tradition - not tear apart our society and traditions and try to replace it with something completely different (and it appears of a very 'lefty Marxist' flavour.

Agreed

Your post, I would think, could be the sentiments of most white people who are aged 50+ unfortunately most of the people that would disagree with those sentiment are the 18+ group, they have taken to this “woke” rubbish through social media almost like some sort of fashion fad “its cool to-be part of it”.

They, the young, are more likely to be on demonstrations/protests, braking lock down rules, they will be the ones on social media and in the news, they will be the ones that the government will take note of, just look at TV programs now and how they been influenced by these groups, look TV ads, need I say more?

I think the die is cast for this country, any moderate voices will be shouted down by some group or the other.

[Robden]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

Agreed

Your post, I would think, could be the sentiments of most white people who are aged 50+ unfortunately most of the people that would disagree with those sentiment are the 18+ group, they have taken to this “woke” rubbish through social media almost like some sort of fashion fad “its cool to-be part of it”.

They, the young, are more likely to be on demonstrations/protests, braking lock down rules, they will be the ones on social media and in the news, they will be the ones that the government will take note of, just look at TV programs now and how they been influenced by these groups, look TV ads, need I say more?

I think the die is cast for this country, any moderate voices will be shouted down by some group or the other.

Spot on!

Sometimes I don't mind being old. I'm not sure that England/Britain will be a nice place to live in a few years.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

That applies to me as well - and it is not something I like because I would wish to continue to be non racist and inclusive, but I cannot help my dislike for some of the present divisions the minorities are deliberately opening up on what I see as 'made up' racial lines.

Help me to understand what you are saying here, do you believe that all people who belong to a minority background are doing this, or just some? Are you also saying that you would become racist because of these things?

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, henry d said:

Help me to understand what you are saying here, do you believe that all people who belong to a minority background are doing this, or just some?

No - it will be a small minority of all people - all ethnicities including white - but they are using the 'race' issue to open up divisions and fuel tensions on a racial pretext.  Many of those who participated in the BLM potests including such issues as 'defund he police etc' were not themselves from minorities.

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

Are you also saying that you would become racist because of these things?

It does arouse in me a very negative attitude to those (as above) - but I do not see it as racism because as I have stated above - it is people of all ethnicities trying to fuel division in the name of racism.  I am strongly against people trying to open up division - which in this cases often uses a racial veneer (such as BLM).  As I have said before on these forums - every life matters - equally.

[henry d]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

No - it will be a small minority of all people - all ethnicities including white - but they are using the 'race' issue to open up divisions and fuel tensions on a racial pretext.  Many of those who participated in the BLM potests including such issues as 'defund he police etc' were not themselves from minorities.

It does arouse in me a very negative attitude to those (as above) - but I do not see it as racism because as I have stated above - it is people of all ethnicities trying to fuel division in the name of racism.  I am strongly against people trying to open up division - which in this cases often uses a racial veneer (such as BLM).  As I have said before on these forums - every life matters - equally.

Thanks for the clarification.

And regards the highlighted above, just because people use BLM does not presuppose that other lives don't matter.

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

No - it will be a small minority of all people - all ethnicities including white - but they are using the 'race' issue to open up divisions and fuel tensions on a racial pretext.  Many of those who participated in the BLM potests including such issues as 'defund he police etc' were not themselves from minorities.

In the furore of last years 'mostly peaceful' BLM riots and protests, stoked by leftist media and personalities, a central tenet was introduced....
It wasnt good enough to just  NOT be a racist, you had to be actively FIGHTING racism, or you were still supporting racism anyway !
This posed a bit of a quandary.
It was a bravo ! to the white people who got involved looting protesting, any other whites were demonised as racists, and the type of people who would probably own slaves if given the chance.
But what about the people of colour who didnt 'actively fight racism' ? Were they racists too?
Could it be that ONLY white people could be racist ?

Despite the concept being highly hypocritical , along with the idea of defunding the police, and bringing down the establishment, it all took a good hold on the collective psyche of nearly all African origin peoples, could those slavery reparations be finally paid ?
Who exactly was going to pay them , ALL whites , or just the rich ones, what if your  great grandfather was black, did they only pay a percentage ?
Who was going to police the streets , black militia ?
And if the 'state' was going to be 'bought down' how would we receive benefits, medical care ?

If you think the above is far fetched or bizarre, have a read of this CNN piece from August last year.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/us/racism-questions-answers/

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Rewulf

[JohnfromUK]

52 minutes ago, henry d said:

And regards the highlighted above, just because people use BLM does not presuppose that other lives don't matter.

And yet people have been 'attacked' for saying - All Lives Matter by people claiming to be BLM supporters.    I have no time at all for BLM. - It is encouraging discrimination.  Rewulfs post above explains more thoroughly how (some) BLM people cannot accept that people (like me) will not support BLM.  I would support an ALM equivalent (A of course being All) - and that includes blue lives as well (Blue Lives being the American police).

[Scully]

It was the stated claim that by not being proactive in the campaign was to be classed as racist. Who the hell do they think they are!  Really really arrogantly ( and ignorantly ) annoying. They lost my support there and then. 
I find myself growing wearier and wearier with each new agenda, and less and less tolerant of intolerance. 

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

It was the stated claim that by not being proactive in the campaign was to be classed as racist. Who the hell do they think they are!  Really really arrogantly ( and ignorantly ) annoying. They lost my support there and then. 
I find myself growing wearier and wearier with each new agenda, and less and less tolerant of intolerance. 

Like you , John and myself and millions of others, people are fed up of the discrimination against us from BLM.
They have gone far beyond wanting parity, their stated aims seem more vengeful.

This blatant attempt at division within Western society is actively stoked by the liberal left.
Any opportunity to further the 'them and us ' narrative is seized upon, every time.
Brexit, elections of all type, even an interview with a spoiled married couple seeking to up their profile, and paid millions for the 'juice' no matter whether it be true or not.

The latest official report on racial matters has been soundly rubbished in the lefty papers, as they cannot stand to hear that we are NOT a nation of racists !

They seem to actively want to keep us divided ?

[Yellow Bear]

36 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Like you , John and myself and millions of others, people are fed up of the discrimination against us from BLM.
They have gone far beyond wanting parity, their stated aims seem more vengeful.

This blatant attempt at division within Western society is actively stoked by the liberal left.
Any opportunity to further the 'them and us ' narrative is seized upon, every time.
Brexit, elections of all type, even an interview with a spoiled married couple seeking to up their profile, and paid millions for the 'juice' no matter whether it be true or not.

The latest official report on racial matters has been soundly rubbished in the lefty papers, as they cannot stand to hear that we are NOT a nation of racists !

They seem to actively want to keep us divided ?

The current "left" is anything but liberal  -  like everything else, they didn't get their way so play the race card again.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Yellow Bear

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Yellow Bear said:

The current "left" is anything but liberal

I find it ironic that the left are very pro BLM (in public anyway) - but (some of them) are very anti Semitic.

The reason I think is that they think they are supporting the downtrodden descendants from slavery, but anti the capiltalist banking dynasties and 'city firm families' such as Goldman Sachs, Rothschilds etc.

In fact - I suspect that much of the hard left only really supports BLM as a matter of convenience and gaining membership.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

 

They seem to actively want to keep us divided ?

Indeed, it all seems quite baffling given the intention  ( it is claimed ) is an inclusive society. 🤔
 

[Robden]

15 hours ago, Rewulf said:

In the furore of last years 'mostly peaceful' BLM riots and protests, stoked by leftist media and personalities, a central tenet was introduced....
It wasnt good enough to just  NOT be a racist, you had to be actively FIGHTING racism, or you were still supporting racism anyway !
This posed a bit of a quandary.
It was a bravo ! to the white people who got involved looting protesting, any other whites were demonised as racists, and the type of people who would probably own slaves if given the chance.
But what about the people of colour who didnt 'actively fight racism' ? Were they racists too?
Could it be that ONLY white people could be racist ?

Despite the concept being highly hypocritical , along with the idea of defunding the police, and bringing down the establishment, it all took a good hold on the collective psyche of nearly all African origin peoples, could those slavery reparations be finally paid ?
Who exactly was going to pay them , ALL whites , or just the rich ones, what if your  great grandfather was black, did they only pay a percentage ?
Who was going to police the streets , black militia ?
And if the 'state' was going to be 'bought down' how would we receive benefits, medical care ?

If you think the above is far fetched or bizarre, have a read of this CNN piece from August last year.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2020/us/racism-questions-answers/

Before Covid, we were having a bit of friendly banter with the owner of our local Indian restaurant. I said to him that if I married his daughter, I could have this loverly food everyday, without having to look at his ugly mug. He said, "Not a chance. I won't let her marry a white man."         I said, "That's a bit racist Mohieth!"   His reply was. "How can that/I  be racist? I'm Asian."   And he (we thought) was a well educated man. We tried to explain it to him, but he wasn't having it.

 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, Robden said:

I won't let her

The delightful 'diversity' of different cultures eh? 

[London Best]

3 hours ago, Robden said:

Before Covid, we were having a bit of friendly banter with the owner of our local Indian restaurant. I said to him that if I married his daughter, I could have this loverly food everyday, without having to look at his ugly mug. He said, "Not a chance. I won't let her marry a white man."         I said, "That's a bit racist Mohieth!"   His reply was. "How can that/I  be racist? I'm Asian."   And he (we thought) was a well educated man. We tried to explain it to him, but he wasn't having it.

 

And there lies the problem........racism is only seen (by some) to work one way.

[JohnfromUK]

Interesting take on the MM issue here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428893/Royal-expert-shocks-Today-host-comments-Meghan-Markle.html

lady C is a 'loose canon', but on the other hand, she has no axe to grind.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

And there lies the problem........racism is only seen (by some) to work one way.

None white cultures dont see racism as its true definition.
Racism is something whites 'do' to non white cultures.

The UN definition of race discrimination is staggeringly broad, a person from Norfolk calling someone a Geordie in a derogatory manner could  literally be classed as racism.
Im not saying this is ever likely to happen, but its possible within 'hate' laws.

Which brings us back to the notion of racism from non whites.
Again, its perfectly prosecutable under UK law, but when does it ever actually happen ?
Lawyers know , bringing in the 'racially aggravated' aspect into a prosecution, amplifies the sentencing, simply using a derogatory racial term during any altercation makes it a hate crime , as well as whatever crime it was anyway.
Again, its very rare to hear of it being used AGAINST a non white, even though racially aggravated crimes against whites  obviously happens, and on an increasing basis.
Its also very often , when it happens,  not reported in the mainstream media, whereas a racist attack/hate crime against any non white , by whites, normally receives plenty of coverage.

I know we have drifted waaay off topic here , but this is just another aspect of the attempts at division in society, and begs questions that ordinary people of all creeds/colours would like answers to....But are generally afraid to ask, because questioning the 'race' narrative , gets you a beady eye cast upon you...

As far as the Markle/Windsor aspect goes , I would like to think Harry is an unwilling participant to his wifes aspirations to stir the race division pot, with Oprah being the main instigator and paymaster.
You may ask yourself , whats in it for Oprah, why would she do that ?
And then you look at her net worth....In a country thats supposedly highly racist against black people.
Yet there she is , a multi billionaire, and completely unaccountable , as any criticism of her is , well ... racist...

[old man]

On 01/04/2021 at 09:41, JohnfromUK said:

That applies to me as well - and it is not something I like because I would wish to continue to be non racist and inclusive, but I cannot help my dislike for some of the present divisions the minorities are deliberately opening up on what I see as 'made up' racial lines.

The UK overall is NOT a racist country - of that I am convinced - as indeed was the recent government enquiry led by a very diverse group of high profile individuals.  You only have to look at the diversity in cabinet, government, parliament etc. to see that.  There are of course racist individuals - just as there are for example anti Semitic individuals, but again we are not an anti Semitic country.

What 'rubs me up the wrong way' is that having got the present 'woke' attitudes to a high level of popularity, many of our long standing traditions, and memorials are being 'attacked', in some cases physically attacked.  By this I mean pulling down statues, renaming colleges, streets, buildings where they are named after some long dead person who was associated with practices (such as slavery) that are no longer acceptable, but were the norm in their day.  I also mean the 'positive discrimination' where jobs are advertised to certain sections of the community only rather than to the best applicant regardless of background, the differing legal and police treatment of minorities (e.g - what is known as 'playing the race card').

People of all backgrounds are welcome to join in and take part in society and government - but (for me anyway) to continue to run and evolve it along well developed lines based in history and tradition - not tear apart our society and traditions and try to replace it with something completely different (and it appears of a very 'lefty Marxist' flavour.

Succinct and my own feeling too John.

[Walker570]

Slightly off key but read this morning where Markle was already planning to use the Royal name for her benefit way before the wedding and the idiot went along with it .....  the old saying ..sniff of the barmaids apron springs to mind.

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Markle was already planning to use the Royal name for her benefit way before the wedding

When the bride at a very big and high profile wedding only has ONE member of her own family (despite there being many other family around) .......... there is something seriously wrong.  It was a massive 'red flag'.

Weddings are family events for most 'normal' families, and indeed the Royals.

[old'un]

Bit off topic again but as Markle and others bought the subject up about Britain and the Royal family being raciest I think she and others should look and see that its not all one sided.

"So why does nobody talk about THESE children?"..https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9431489/PROFESSOR-MATT-GOODWIN-says-findings-white-working-class-race-report-shamefully-ignored.html

Interesting take on what's happening to young white kids with all the attention and focus on other sections of British society “woke” the above article is based on findings in the “commission on racial and ethnic disparity”…..https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/974507/20210331_-_CRED_Report_-_FINAL_-_Web_Accessible.pdf

[Vince Green]

The woke approach to the holocaust would be to bulldoze Auschwitz flat, tear down the gas chambers and pull up the railway tracks. Saying its a monument

You can't change history but you can shown people what happened, hoping they will learn from it

[ditchman]

Now the duke has been interred.........has harry gone back ...or has he been caught up in this USA travel ban......

anyone know ?

[Mr.C]

Gone back

[enfieldspares]

On 02/04/2021 at 10:45, JohnfromUK said:

Interesting take on the MM issue here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428893/Royal-expert-shocks-Today-host-comments-Meghan-Markle.html

lady C is a 'loose canon', but on the other hand, she has no axe to grind.

Lady Colin Campbell? Hmm. What my old French teacher would have described as being "Neither fish, fowl, nor good red herring."