Defender 110

[oowee]

The new defender 110 starts at £45k. I was wondering if that is expensive compared to how much the original defender was when it was a current model. Anyone know? 

[old'un]

Well an old style defender 110 is fetching around 40k+ so that does not look a bad price for the new model, when you ordering one?

[Centrepin]

Al things being equal, I'd sooner pay 40 for a decent older 110 without complicated electrics and proper live axles than 45 for a new computer game on wheels.

I don't think I'll ever be able to run another 110, 90 or 130 or even a series but I still think for what they're meant for, they're the best thing on 4 wheels.

For now I'll stick to the Range Rover and hope it doesn't break.

[oowee]

23 minutes ago, old'un said:

Well an old style defender 110 is fetching around 40k+ so that does not look a bad price for the new model, when you ordering one?

They look great but ...........................

I have a car nightmare. Bristol are about to ban diesel so sold my A2 1.4 which was a lovely collectable car that I used as a run about and to go into town. I have a Hilux which is Euro6 so can drive in but it's too big for easy parking. I don't want to spend anymore on cars and the cash I got for the Audi will only buy a rubbish petrol. So may sell the Hilux and buy something smaller or two cars.

So was looking to get another disco sport (wife has one and it's great) as they are small and will tow well and euro 6 can go in town and is parkable. Or sell the lux get a cheaper freelander 2 and buy a decent run about.  

[London Best]

58 minutes ago, oowee said:

The new defender 110 starts at £45k. I was wondering if that is expensive compared to how much the original defender was when it was a current model. Anyone know? 

The ORIGINAL Land Rover was £450 new. 
Doors were extras!

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

They look great but ...........................

I have a car nightmare. Bristol are about to ban diesel so sold my A2 1.4 which was a lovely collectable car that I used as a run about and to go into town. I have a Hilux which is Euro6 so can drive in but it's too big for easy parking. I don't want to spend anymore on cars and the cash I got for the Audi will only buy a rubbish petrol. So may sell the Hilux and buy something smaller or two cars.

So was looking to get another disco sport (wife has one and it's great) as they are small and will tow well and euro 6 can go in town and is parkable. Or sell the lux get a cheaper freelander 2 and buy a decent run about.  

The Freelander 2's a great car. My parents have one and I've driven theirs off road on snow, gravel, mud, ice you name it, I've done it in it. The only thing that holds it back for most of the off road driving you are likely to do is the tyres. But whack some off road ones on and it'd be great. Unless you need serious towing power (beyond, say double horse and box) the Freelander's got the boxes ticked.

[Wilts#Dave]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

They look great but ...........................

I have a car nightmare. Bristol are about to ban diesel so sold my A2 1.4 which was a lovely collectable car that I used as a run about and to go into town. I have a Hilux which is Euro6 so can drive in but it's too big for easy parking. I don't want to spend anymore on cars and the cash I got for the Audi will only buy a rubbish petrol. So may sell the Hilux and buy something smaller or two cars.

So was looking to get another disco sport (wife has one and it's great) as they are small and will tow well and euro 6 can go in town and is parkable. Or sell the lux get a cheaper freelander 2 and buy a decent run about.  

They’re banning all diesels in Bristol? Didn’t realise they were going that far! 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Wilts#Dave said:

They’re banning all diesels in Bristol? Didn’t realise they were going that far! 

It was a total ban but it looks like they have been told to rethink and euro 6 will be ok. 

3 hours ago, London Best said:

The ORIGINAL Land Rover was £450 new. 
Doors were extras!

When was that and what would the equivalent price be now? Even an average car liks a ford focus is £20000+ now so the defender is twice the price.

[London Best]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

 

When was that and what would the equivalent price be now? Even an average car liks a ford focus is £20000+ now so the defender is twice the price.

You forget, the Defender is not an average car!

Original was 1948.

[JohnfromUK]

14 hours ago, oowee said:

The new defender 110 starts at £45k. I was wondering if that is expensive compared to how much the original defender was when it was a current model. Anyone know? 

In 2015 the 'final' special edition 110 was £43.5K - but that was with all of the 'bells and whistles'.  https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/special-editions-land-rover-defenders-final-year

The new 110 is difficult to compare price wise because so much more is 'standard'.

[oowee]

I was trying to understand if it is affordabel compared to the original affordability.

[Sussexboy]

According to my quick research on this I present the following.

In 1948 the average annual salary was £202, therefore at £450 the Land Rover was 2.5 years average salary.

In 2021 the average salary is £38600, therefore at £45000 the Land Rover is 1.2 years average salary.

By direct comparison £450 from 1948 is worth £17700 today.

There are of course questions to be asked about the comparability of the methods of calculating average salary.

First conclusions:

Is it affordable compared to 1948? Yes, based on the limited data available so far.

Is it more expensive than the original model? Yes, if you base that on price alone.

Would I buy one? No. I cannot invest that much into a depreciating asset as my money has to work for its living rather than me!

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Sussexboy

[Scully]

30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In 2015 the 'final' special edition 110 was £43.5K - but that was with all of the 'bells and whistles'.  https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/special-editions-land-rover-defenders-final-year

The new 110 is difficult to compare price wise because so much more is 'standard'.

Quite. Mate has one. It’s never been off road and he’s never taken it any further than his girlfriends house, which he visits each weekend. It’s only 7 miles away. 
He’d terrified of putting miles on it or getting it marked, much like his guns. 🤷‍♂️

[rimfire4969]

I have had quite a few Landy's from Series up to my Defender 90 I have now. As far as I am concerned they should of let the Defender die and called this new model something different. There are always going to be the comparison between the two and they are chalk and cheese. Try comparing a old Defender to a new Discovery pointless.

[Centrepin]

I only buy things I'm going to use, I only use things that are any good to me. Currently have two vehicles, one for shooting, fishing and mucky stuff a Range Rover. And a nice car to take my wife and family out in, Volvo XC70, AWD. 

They should have called it something other than a defender. Its like the Land Rover Range Rover Evoque, so far away from a traditional Range Rover, or the Disco sport, nothing like a disco.

I just can't imagine much use for it as a utility or general purpose vehicle but as a 4 wheel drive car it has its place.

There seems to be a hole in the market for a "proper" Land Rover type multi purpose vehicle.

I would love another that can cope with things like this:

 

The view from a proper Landy should always be something like this:

 

[udderlyoffroad]

19 hours ago, oowee said:

I was wondering if that is expensive compared to how much the original defender was when it was a current model.

When do you mean current, Grant?

The Defender as most people understand it, was released in the early 80s.  Before then it was 'Series' landies.

They definitely made sense for people at the time, witness the large fleets of them operated by Network utility providers.

But, in very rough terms, towards the end of JLR's production run, you were looking at £45k for a decent spec 110, or, £32k for a fully loaded crewcab pickup.  Which could do 80% of what a LR could do off-road, and do it in far more comfort, and was a better bet on road.

 

 

3 hours ago, Centrepin said:

There seems to be a hole in the market for a "proper" Land Rover type multi purpose vehicle.

Can we please put this perennial one to bed:  The people who covet such a thing aren't new car buyers (broad brush strokes here), therefore the 'market' as such doesn't exist.  We still await the Grenadier, but I suspect that will be vapourware too.

The closest I can think: farmers, who want a utilitarian vehicle for their business, used to buy/lease new Defenders, but switched to Jap pickups for the financial reasons stated above. 

The majority of farmers don't actually need or want the ultimate off road vehicle, for the simple reason that if the going is that rough, they've screwed up something with their land management!

Then there are the types who want something "without all those fancy electronics" - but still expect the fuel efficiency of a modern vehicle.  And they conveniantly forget that such a vehicle must be capable of passing European type approval, including crash safety, emissions, pedestrian safety....

No, such a vehicle will never exist again, because there is no market for it (in Europe and North America anyway) and even if there were, there would have to be some pretty hefty compromises to make it road-legal.

3 hours ago, Centrepin said:

I would love another that can cope with things like this:

As you well know, the days of 'soft skinned' vehicles on active military ops is over.

Current materials science means that armouring is still pig-heavy, and if you're going to design a vehicle for troops to use, you need to start with a light truck, not expect a civilian 4x4 chassis (platform) to cope!  JLR are not in that market, but other British manufacturers and British-based factories+engineering teams with foreign owners are (JD for instance).

Your other pictures appears to show some mild off-roading.  The question is which current production 4x4 cannot cope with those conditions, but also has a heater that works?

By the way, I speak as someone who is oh-so-slowly restoring a 110, but unlike a lot of others I don't harbour false nostalgia.

[Wymondley]

8 hours ago, Centrepin said:

I would love another that can cope with things like this:

Pic' 6, Stanage edge?

[Centrepin]

12 hours ago, Wymondley said:

Pic' 6, Stanage edge?

Yes, with the exception of the 1st and snow ones, the others are either at the top of Stanage or on Houndkirk Moor.

[12gauge82]

On 16/04/2021 at 14:16, udderlyoffroad said:

When do you mean current, Grant?

The Defender as most people understand it, was released in the early 80s.  Before then it was 'Series' landies.

They definitely made sense for people at the time, witness the large fleets of them operated by Network utility providers.

But, in very rough terms, towards the end of JLR's production run, you were looking at £45k for a decent spec 110, or, £32k for a fully loaded crewcab pickup.  Which could do 80% of what a LR could do off-road, and do it in far more comfort, and was a better bet on road.

 

 

Can we please put this perennial one to bed:  The people who covet such a thing aren't new car buyers (broad brush strokes here), therefore the 'market' as such doesn't exist.  We still await the Grenadier, but I suspect that will be vapourware too.

The closest I can think: farmers, who want a utilitarian vehicle for their business, used to buy/lease new Defenders, but switched to Jap pickups for the financial reasons stated above. 

The majority of farmers don't actually need or want the ultimate off road vehicle, for the simple reason that if the going is that rough, they've screwed up something with their land management!

Then there are the types who want something "without all those fancy electronics" - but still expect the fuel efficiency of a modern vehicle.  And they conveniantly forget that such a vehicle must be capable of passing European type approval, including crash safety, emissions, pedestrian safety....

No, such a vehicle will never exist again, because there is no market for it (in Europe and North America anyway) and even if there were, there would have to be some pretty hefty compromises to make it road-legal.

As you well know, the days of 'soft skinned' vehicles on active military ops is over.

Current materials science means that armouring is still pig-heavy, and if you're going to design a vehicle for troops to use, you need to start with a light truck, not expect a civilian 4x4 chassis (platform) to cope!  JLR are not in that market, but other British manufacturers and British-based factories+engineering teams with foreign owners are (JD for instance).

Your other pictures appears to show some mild off-roading.  The question is which current production 4x4 cannot cope with those conditions, but also has a heater that works?

By the way, I speak as someone who is oh-so-slowly restoring a 110, but unlike a lot of others I don't harbour false nostalgia.

I don't know, picture 6 rock crawling would be pushing it for many out of the box off roaders, they simply wouldn't have the ground clearance, approach, or departure angles? 

[Walker570]

On 15/04/2021 at 18:58, London Best said:

The ORIGINAL Land Rover was £450 new. 
Doors were extras!

That was a lot of money back then.  As most of you know I have a 90 original diesel  1989.  I shoe horned a 3.9 V8 into it with LPG/Petrol facility. I cannot ever see me selling it.

I paid £600 for 13years ago and have upgraded and spent maybe £6000 on upgrades, galvanised chassis/engine/LT85 gear box?Classic rea axle.  It does everyhting I ask of it.

IF I was to replace it then I would look for a 90 around that lineage and do the same. The benefit of the 90 over the 110 is it is far more capable and doesn't need half of the county to turn around.   You can rither, like mine, have a basic motor, or you can tart them up to suit your requirements.  I fitted mine with an American style tow bar and can therefore 'plug in' a variety of attachments, one of which is a carry tray onto which I can throw a couple of fallow if required.  

No, give me a 90 any day and as long as LPG is still available then stick a V8 in it. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

The benefit of the 90 over the 110 is it is far more capable and doesn't need half of the county to turn around.

Entirely agree - my 1993 Defender 200 tdi is a 90 and I have had it since 1996.  Near standard 'county' spec with pas and other than engine mildly uprated by Allard 25 years ago (basically larger intercooler) and soundproofing, little else done.  Not quite turned its 100,000 yet (about 200 miles short).

Edited May 14, 2021 by JohnfromUK

[Centrepin]

59 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

That was a lot of money back then.  As most of you know I have a 90 original diesel  1989.  I shoe horned a 3.9 V8 into it with LPG/Petrol facility. I cannot ever see me selling it.

I paid £600 for 13years ago and have upgraded and spent maybe £6000 on upgrades, galvanised chassis/engine/LT85 gear box?Classic rea axle.  It does everyhting I ask of it.

IF I was to replace it then I would look for a 90 around that lineage and do the same. The benefit of the 90 over the 110 is it is far more capable and doesn't need half of the county to turn around.   You can rither, like mine, have a basic motor, or you can tart them up to suit your requirements.  I fitted mine with an American style tow bar and can therefore 'plug in' a variety of attachments, one of which is a carry tray onto which I can throw a couple of fallow if required.  

No, give me a 90 any day and as long as LPG is still available then stick a V8 in it. 

I agree that that to me would be the ultimate off road go anywhere vehicle. I would probably for rough off road use give it a 2" suspension lift but other than that it sounds like you've cracked it with what you have.

As I get older I'm more tempted by a 110 CSW or a 130 crew cab despite them having the turning circle of the QE2. The option of second row seating appeals to me.

Parts and accessories are now even available on amazon for 2" receivers. My Range Rover is fitted with one as standard.

[Walker570]

Is that what they are called.... I knew a girl like that once many moons ago

My one regret is foolishly selling my CSK Range Rover but there gain it would have had to be kept in pristine condition and that was at the time going to cost.  Now they must be worh upwards of £50 thou.  My Landy is high enough thankyou, I almost need a stool to climb in now.

For those who do not know what a CSK RR is. Rover built a 100 all numbered with super black polished container for all the paperwork. They where two door models as original but with upgraded interior.   CSK....Charles Spencer King the original designer of the RR.  He lived on my patch and I often saw him driving prototypes and I think on one occasion the turbine Rover.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Walker570

[Jim Neal]

On 14/05/2021 at 08:07, Walker570 said:

 as long as LPG is still available then stick a V8 in it. 

How are you finding the availability of LPG these days in your neck of the woods (West Leics aren't you?)?  After BP came out of the market and now Shell are following, over the course of about 3 years I went from tripping over the stuff everywhere to having a serious problem on my hands.

I'm self-employed and have engine-powered machinery built in to my van which runs on only LPG (no petrol backup).  My nearest sources of gas are a Morrisons about 9 miles south or a small independent car sales/servicing sort of place about 5 miles north.  Nothing else for a bloody long drive in any direction.  If I leave home in the morning with an empty tank I have to pray whichever outlet I gamble on has got gas, because very often they're out!  If you've driven 9 miles south to go to a job near there, then have to drive 14 miles north again to fill up, then 14+ miles back again it kind of cocks your day up!

[Fuddster]

love the pics of the swb 88 with the roof and door tops off.

I used to lend my 1972 88 swb, to my then girlfriend to drive into the city of London with the screen down and door tops off.

Parked outside Snow Hill Police Station it always drew a few comments.

Would love another series LR but I've become too accustomed to air con,power steering etc.

f.