Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[oowee]

It now looks like RU will default on it's sovereign debt payments. The country rating has been downgraded to low junk status. 

[Smokersmith]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

as the girl struggles on a daily basis to house our OWN people needing assistance where is all this room? I see no condemnation from you WE are pouring arms on the fire to cause even MORE refugees so where is that 

Probable better to have Ukrainian refugees, than Ukrainian dead

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, Smokersmith said:

Probable better to have Ukrainian refugees, than Ukrainian dead

we would have neither if we kept our nose out time to interfere is when our OWN homeless and hungry have been helped this very morning child is assisting a girl stuck in hospital with a sick child who’s homeless where is HER help? 

[old man]

On 07/03/2022 at 19:42, Weihrauch17 said:

It is quite unbelievable the utter incompetence of our Politicians.

Agreed but the parties..........WOW!

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

What reality would that be? There is plenty of capacity it's simply a matter of attitude. We need to show a small amount of the spirit shown in Ukraine. A fraction of the positive attitude shown in Poland. A modicum of the fighting spirit shown by our ancestors.

There is simply no capacity issue here except in the narrow minds of the selfish. Lets have can do rather than being worrying ninnies. 

 

I'm all for it, but a can do attitude won't change reality, we are already housing economic migrants who have been arriving here for years in hotels as we've run out of capacity, where would you put an extra say 200k people? 

I'd take anyone and everyone from Ukraine if it were up to me, but we can't put them on the street. 

[old man]

16 hours ago, Mice! said:

I probably read to many books and watch too many films, but think of the security risks, imagine someone getting aboard with a pistol or grenade??

Yep, absolutely.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

What reality would that be? There is plenty of capacity it's simply a matter of attitude. We need to show a small amount of the spirit shown in Ukraine. A fraction of the positive attitude shown in Poland. A modicum of the fighting spirit shown by our ancestors.

There is simply no capacity issue here except in the narrow minds of the selfish. Lets have can do rather than being worrying ninnies. 

 

This.

Has it not occurred to some that the issues the Ukrainian refugees are facing in coming to the UK might illustrate the issue genuine refugees from other conflicts have faced for years in coming to the UK.

Having dated a UNHCR Refugee Status Determination Officer who worked in Nairobi and then Cairo, I know first hand the strain that the people who conduct this work face, the experience is horrific frankly and over time significantly impacts the quality of the personal lives and well being of the people who work in this field. Her work significantly contributed to the failure of our relationship and she ended up an alcohol and substance abuser until she finally quit earlier this year.

Has it also not occurred to some that not all of the people landing on our shores are economic migrants but they all seem to get tarred with the same brush.

We must find a way to accommodate the Ukrainian refugees and fulfil our obligations to these people under International Law. Let's also start doing a better job for the genuine refugees elsewhere and all the people legitimately involved in this dark subject.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Raja Clavata

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm all for it, but a can do attitude won't change reality, we are already housing economic migrants who have been arriving here for years in hotels as we've run out of capacity, where would you put an extra say 200k people? 

I'd take anyone and everyone from Ukraine if it were up to me, but we can't put them on the street. 

Lets first ask for volunteers to take them (i have already offered space here). That will take care of the first million.

This is a war in Europe, we are part of it if we like it or not. We all want Ukraine to prevail and the contribution we can make is very limited. The impact on the UK is largely financial, a far better situation than spilling blood. Many gripe about how the yanks came late to the war, here we have a chance to step upto the plate. 

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Lets first ask for volunteers to take them (i have already offered space here). That will take care of the first million.

It always strikes me as funny, when people quite selflessly offer to help those less fortunate, and those in Ukraine fleeing war are a worthy cause.
Yet think nothing of the thousands of poor wretches who sleep in shop doorways of a night.
Or the hundreds of thousands, children , vulnerable women, who have no home , and little prospect of getting one, sitting in hostels and B + Bs

 

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Has it also not occurred to some that not all of the people landing on our shores are economic migrants but they all seem to get tarred with the same brush.

We must find a way to accommodate the Ukrainian refugees and fulfil our obligations to these people under International Law. Let's also start doing a better job for the genuine refugees elsewhere and all the people legitimately involved in this dark subject.

I am positive that SOME are genuine refugees, as I am positive that SOME are pure economic migrants, who have little to no intention of ever contributing something back to the country that offered them shelter.
The problem arises when the system that processes them , has no real intention of discovering the truth of either or.
So they end up staying, tens of thousands a year.

I  knew a member of Nottinghams housing team, in charge of asylum seekers, Zimbabwean born , she and her team prioritised spare flats and houses for those under her charge, they were front of the queue.
Ive met a few corrupt people in my time, she was exceptional at it , I used to ask her if they did University courses in corrupt studies back in Zim.
She was shameless about it.

Housing is a serious issue throughout the country, new builds cannot even cope with demand if we didnt take another immigrant for 10 years, but with starter homes at £250k, and extortionate rents, our home grown homeless often need their living costs paying for them by the state.
Yet we are asked to take more and more people from abroad, most of them cannot afford to live without state handouts either , many of them need translators, medical care, but  the NHS is a basket case NOW, and constantly craves more money.

Where are we going to get this money, these houses , these NHS and school places ?
Fuel prices are about to virtually double, are wages going up ?
I could be glib and say charity begins at home, but we are so far past that now, there is a real prospect of some kind of economic collapse if this country isnt steered differently, there will be a point where we cannot afford to pay the rents and bills of so many, which will directly impact those who have been trying so hard to 'do the right thing'

There could well be a backlash then.

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It always strikes me as funny, when people quite selflessly offer to help those less fortunate, and those in Ukraine fleeing war are a worthy cause.
Yet think nothing of the thousands of poor wretches who sleep in shop doorways of a night.
Or the hundreds of thousands, children , vulnerable women, who have no home , and little prospect of getting one, sitting in hostels and B + Bs

I agree it is strange. 

 

Housing is a serious issue throughout the country, new builds cannot even cope with demand if we didnt take another immigrant for 10 years, but with starter homes at £250k, and extortionate rents, our home grown homeless often need their living costs paying for them by the state.
Yet we are asked to take more and more people from abroad, most of them cannot afford to live without state handouts either , many of them need translators, medical care, but  the NHS is a basket case NOW, and constantly craves more money.

Where are we going to get this money, these houses , these NHS and school places ?
 

It should not be a problem unless we make it one. The reason house prices are so high is we protect the value of those that have one and the industry that builds them at the expense of those that need them. If you doubt it look at the Milton Keynes model. A huge contributor to the UK exchequer and providing countless thousands of homes.

We simply need a democratic social government rather than the looney left or ultra right.  

 

[clangerman]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It always strikes me as funny, when people quite selflessly offer to help those less fortunate, and those in Ukraine fleeing war are a worthy cause.
Yet think nothing of the thousands of poor wretches who sleep in shop doorways of a night.
Or the hundreds of thousands, children , vulnerable women, who have no home , and little prospect of getting one, sitting in hostels and B + Bs

 

here’s the answer quote I have not housed one person who was born here today unquote now tell me our own needy are not being ignored and that includes our ex service men 

[old man]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Lets first ask for volunteers to take them (i have already offered space here). That will take care of the first million.

This is a war in Europe, we are part of it if we like it or not. We all want Ukraine to prevail and the contribution we can make is very limited. The impact on the UK is largely financial, a far better situation than spilling blood. Many gripe about how the yanks came late to the war, here we have a chance to step upto the plate. 

Sadly, in a few months the focus will shift? Thousands of our own will be priced out of their own accommodation here? Electricity, Gas, Oil and road fuels being racketeered already?

Even the price of bread may sky rocket as Ukraine is a major wheat producer?

A Ukraine childrens hospital razed today?

Edited March 9, 2022 by old man

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, old man said:

Sadly, in a few months the focus will shift? Thousands of our own will be priced out of their own accommodation here? Electricity, Gas, Oil and road fuels being racketeered already?

Even the price of bread may sky rocket as Ukraine is a major wheat producer?

A Ukraine childrens hospital razed today?

War is always expensive. Thats one of the reasons we have large alliances. 

[Weihrauch17]

6 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm all for it, but a can do attitude won't change reality, we are already housing economic migrants who have been arriving here for years in hotels as we've run out of capacity, where would you put an extra say 200k people? 

I'd take anyone and everyone from Ukraine if it were up to me, but we can't put them on the street. 

I assume the vast majority would stay with family members in the UK.

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I assume the vast majority would stay with family members in the UK.

There are around 40000 Ukrainians here that would house some but the initial tranche is forecast at 200000 and will ultimately require many more homes. The Government has proposed a sponsorship scheme. 

[Newbie to this]

40 minutes ago, oowee said:

We simply need a democratic social government rather than the looney left or ultra right.  

Sadley we just seem to keep getting the looney left type.

[bostonmick]

6 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I assume the vast majority would stay with family members in the UK.

I would guess that most would want to return home after this is over unlike the scroungers arriving in dinghys

[Mice!]

44 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It always strikes me as funny, when people quite selflessly offer to help those less fortunate, and those in Ukraine fleeing war are a worthy cause.
Yet think nothing of the thousands of poor wretches who sleep in shop doorways of a night.
Or the hundreds of thousands, children , vulnerable women, who have no home , and little prospect of getting one, sitting in hostels and B + Bs

 

I am positive that SOME are genuine refugees, as I am positive that SOME are pure economic migrants, who have little to no intention of ever contributing something back to the country that offered them shelter.
The problem arises when the system that processes them , has no real intention of discovering the truth of either or.
So they end up staying, tens of thousands a year.

I  knew a member of Nottinghams housing team, in charge of asylum seekers, Zimbabwean born , she and her team prioritised spare flats and houses for those under her charge, they were front of the queue.
Ive met a few corrupt people in my time, she was exceptional at it , I used to ask her if they did University courses in corrupt studies back in Zim.
She was shameless about it.

Housing is a serious issue throughout the country, new builds cannot even cope with demand if we didnt take another immigrant for 10 years, but with starter homes at £250k, and extortionate rents, our home grown homeless often need their living costs paying for them by the state.
Yet we are asked to take more and more people from abroad, most of them cannot afford to live without state handouts either , many of them need translators, medical care, but  the NHS is a basket case NOW, and constantly craves more money.

Where are we going to get this money, these houses , these NHS and school places ?
Fuel prices are about to virtually double, are wages going up ?
I could be glib and say charity begins at home, but we are so far past that now, there is a real prospect of some kind of economic collapse if this country isnt steered differently, there will be a point where we cannot afford to pay the rents and bills of so many, which will directly impact those who have been trying so hard to 'do the right thing'

There could well be a backlash then.

I think people are bothered this time because it is in Europe and not a desert somewhere this time, and is already impacting us financially.

Plus people know people from the Ukraine. 

Then the fact that it is women and children who are fleeing while the men stay and fight, you cannot fault the spirit of the Ukrainian people but the cost is going to be high.

[Weihrauch17]

I assume that is correct but would they have one to return to?  It will take decades to rebuild much like Syria.  I can't believe Putin hasn't been removed.

[Rewulf]

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

It should not be a problem unless we make it one. The reason house prices are so high is we protect the value of those that have one and the industry that builds them at the expense of those that need them.

That makes no sense to me .

The reason house prices are high is because demand far outstrips supply.
New builds are snapped up and put out for rent at excessive prices, which people HAVE to pay, as they need somewhere to live, and cant afford to buy.
These rents are often paid by the state.

Importing ever more people , no matter how desperate they are , compounds the problem further, as our population increases anyway.
We could say , just build more houses, but I believe they keep the supply diminished on purpose , and blackmail councils to build out of town on greenbelt , further enhancing the price , and profit.

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

The Government has proposed a sponsorship scheme. 

Ill translate that, as the government will use the diminishing population of taxpayers money to pay for the integration of more immigrants.
When we can barely look after who is already here.
The NHS is finished as it is , schooling can barely cope, but lets load some more weight on the donkeys  back.

3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I think people are bothered this time because it is in Europe and not a desert somewhere this time, and is already impacting us financially.

Plus people know people from the Ukraine. 

Then the fact that it is women and children who are fleeing while the men stay and fight, you cannot fault the spirit of the Ukrainian people but the cost is going to be high.

All true , like I say , genuine refugees , but can we cope with maybe another 100,000 mouths ?

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

That makes no sense to me .

The reason house prices are high is because demand far outstrips supply.
New builds are snapped up and put out for rent at excessive prices, which people HAVE to pay, as they need somewhere to live, and cant afford to buy.
These rents are often paid by the state.

The shortage is because we leave it to the private sector to build. They rely upon slow release to build value for sale. 

Importing ever more people , no matter how desperate they are , compounds the problem further, as our population increases anyway.
We could say , just build more houses, but I believe they keep the supply diminished on purpose , and blackmail councils to build out of town on greenbelt , further enhancing the price , and profit.

This is not correct. Councils withhold land on the basis that we are largely a country of nimby's. Councils want votes.

Ill translate that, as the government will use the diminishing population of taxpayers money to pay for the integration of more immigrants.
When we can barely look after who is already here.
The NHS is finished as it is , schooling can barely cope, but lets load some more weight on the donkeys  back.

Not sure where you get that from. Democracy's are characterised by an increasing gap between those that have and those that dont. Closing that gap would result in a fairer more sustainable society.  

All true , like I say , genuine refugees , but can we cope with maybe another 100,000 mouths ?

Of course we can. If Poland can cope with 500000 then a mere 200000 will be a walk in the park.

 

[oowee]

51 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Sadley we just seem to keep getting the looney left type.

I wouldn't call Borris looney left. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by oowee

[Scully]

Maybe they’ll all come to Cumbria; 100’s of houses being built locally, and plans for many many more. 🙂

[Yellow Bear]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

Of course we can. If Poland can cope with 500000 then a mere 200000 will be a walk in the park.

Bear in mind however  that Poland is half as big again in area but with half the population

[oowee]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Bear in mind however  that Poland is half as big again in area but with half the population

They wont be housed in tents.