Wolves back is Scotland?

[Weihrauch17]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/13/reintroducing-wolves-scotland-400-years-would-help-control-deer/

Are they insane!

[Houseplant]

Green extremism. 

[Ultrastu]

Will help control the numbers of people camping  and walking in the country side too .

 

 

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

Will help control the numbers of people camping  and walking in the country side too .

 

 

Doubful, became a major tourist attraction in Yellowstone....

 

Wolves do have the benefit of driving deer from loitering in cover so would protect forestry from damage but numbers would never be high enough to control deer over a large area.

[Sako7mm]

Madness.

Why would an apex predator chase deer in a country which is covered in sheep, which seem to spend their lives trying to die at the best of times?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 hours ago, Sako7mm said:

Madness.

Why would an apex predator chase deer in a country which is covered in sheep, which seem to spend their lives trying to die at the best of times?

That's the comment of the year so far on PW.

I agree completely.

[Scully]

5 hours ago, Sako7mm said:

Madness.

Why would an apex predator chase deer in a country which is covered in sheep, which seem to spend their lives trying to die at the best of times?

This. 

[Ultrastu]

8 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Doubful, became a major tourist attraction in Yellowstone....

 

Wolves do have the benefit of driving deer from loitering in cover so would protect forestry from damage but numbers would never be high enough to control deer over a large area.

Humm .

Not sure I'd be keen to walk a small dog while carrying my baby in a kiddy rucksac to go out and find wolves .

Not unless I had a 12b with me .

This wolf idea will only end one way .

[Stonepark]

17 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Humm .

Not sure I'd be keen to walk a small dog while carrying my baby in a kiddy rucksac to go out and find wolves .

Not unless I had a 12b with me .

This wolf idea will only end one way .

There is no doubt, world wide 1 or 2 wolf deaths occur each year out of an average of a dozen attacks, analysis shows that over time, roughly a third of attacks are rabid (which we should be able to avoid) but in poorer countries can result in death by infection, third are starvation based (plenty of sheep in Scotland if they can't catch deer, hares, etc... 😜) and a third are predatory or territorial, with the areas reporting either have large numbers of wolves and\or human habituated wolves which are unafraid of humans and those are the main risk (but again unlikely to be a problem in Scotland until numbers built up to a point way beyond having a pack or two).

 

People out and about in the hills where wolves were would have to take some basic sensible precautions (pre 1991, this may have included carrying a pistol) but an axe, machete, stick, blank firer, etc will also serve, but common sense is still a person's best defence..

Consider how many die on the hills each year without wolves, 15 a year on average in Scotland alone, with wolves this might (after Scotland was fully colonised, not just a few packs) the average might be 15.1. 

 

I am not saying livestock etc would be safe, that wolves that are attacked or chased by humans will not defend themselves or if you place a baby down in front of a starving wolf it will not try to snatch it, but as noted above it is very unlikely we would have any direct human\wolf related deaths in Scotland for the low numbers they are proposing to introduce.

 

[scutt]

12 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

after Scotland was fully colonised,

WON'T BE LONG IF THE SNP GET AWAY WITH WELCOMING ALL THE WAIFS AND STRAYS FROM ALL OVER THE GLOBE (HUMANES NOT WOLFS😉 ).

Might be a good idea to dish out warm sheepskin coats the new imported S.N.P. voters.😀

[islandgun]

The unintentional introduction of another predator the Mink didn't work out to well,  NatureScot freely admit that fox predate Pine Marten which begs the question what about wolves ?   Im not sure how you would convince a wolf to stay tucked away in the highlands without some very high fences, I would love to see a wolf in the wild but cant see it being popular with many..... got a problem with Deer ? how about shooting and getting the meat into the food chain 

[derbyduck]

12 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/13/reintroducing-wolves-scotland-400-years-would-help-control-deer/

Are they insane!

Yes, 😡

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

The unintentional introduction of another predator the Mink didn't work out to well,  NatureScot freely admit that fox predate Pine Marten which begs the question what about wolves ?   Im not sure how you would convince a wolf to stay tucked away in the highlands without some very high fences, I would love to see a wolf in the wild but cant see it being popular with many..... got a problem with Deer ? how about shooting and getting the meat into the food chain 

You are quite correct that introducing a non-native apex predator was more than an inconvenience, and certainly not responsible and I concur a mistake, but when we as a society shout at other countries to save their, lions, tigers, panthers, wolves, etc etc you can understand why they look at us a bit funny, when we exterminated all of ours..... Wolf, lynx, bear all gone, wild cat on its way, pine Martin, survived by skin of it's teeth....

 

However reintroducing your own apex predator, which you had exterminated is a responsible action, it would also likely help with the fox problem as wolves do not tolerate foxes and hunt\ kill them (hence why I don't see any ethical reason to not hunt foxes with dogs) when they come across them in their range.

 

Like all wild animals wolves are mobile and Iike the beavers will move to where habitat suits them, not what humans think is suitable. However, studies have shown both in EU and USA where wolves have re- colonised they do tend to pick areas to spend most of their time without a lot of disturbance and human activity with adequate food sources and it is only when these areas are fully occupied do they start to move into areas with a lot of activity. It would take decades for this to occur in the UK.

[islandgun]

40 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

You are quite correct that introducing a non-native apex predator was more than an inconvenience, and certainly not responsible and I concur a mistake, but when we as a society shout at other countries to save their, lions, tigers, panthers, wolves, etc etc you can understand why they look at us a bit funny, when we exterminated all of ours..... Wolf, lynx, bear all gone, wild cat on its way, pine Martin, survived by skin of it's teeth....

 

However reintroducing your own apex predator, which you had exterminated is a responsible action, it would also likely help with the fox problem as wolves do not tolerate foxes and hunt\ kill them (hence why I don't see any ethical reason to not hunt foxes with dogs) when they come across them in their range.

 

Like all wild animals wolves are mobile and Iike the beavers will move to where habitat suits them, not what humans think is suitable. However, studies have shown both in EU and USA where wolves have re- colonised they do tend to pick areas to spend most of their time without a lot of disturbance and human activity with adequate food sources and it is only when these areas are fully occupied do they start to move into areas with a lot of activity. It would take decades for this to occur in the UK.

I worked for several years on the Mink project here in the Western Isles, I was on a course which included some of the high ups in the then SNH, and during a conversation I asked why not introduce Red Squirrel into the Stornoway woods, my reasoning was no greys and the reds would flourish creating a safe haven in case the mainland population became endangered, the response from the management was horror asking why someone actively engaged in Mink eradication would consider introducing a squirrel into an alien environment without knowing the consequence of the introduction.. I now wonder if the same management still work for NatureScot and what their thoughts about wolf introduction are

Edited March 14, 2022 by islandgun

[Ultrastu]

Who do I sue or get sent to prison ,if I suffer losses from a wolf attack after they have been introduced .

I can hear the buck being past around from here  .

 

 

[Newbie to this]

21 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Who do I sue or get sent to prison ,if I suffer losses from a wolf attack after they have been introduced .

I can hear the buck being past around from here  .

 

 

Absolutely, those behind the reintroduction, should be held accountable for any attacks on humans or livestock.

These people don't think about the consequences of their actions.

[Pushandpull]

"These people" would be in the first instance be SNH/NatureScot, who would think very hard - see above from islandgun !

In fact this so-called news story has been surfacing for many years. About 30 years ago I was hind stalking and we ran into a couple of young chaps heading to climb the local Monroe. They were very excited and told us they were unaware the wolf introduction had already started, but had just seen one ! I guess a fox can look big against a snowy background.

[Scully]

I can’t see why it would be much different to the reintroduction which took part in Yellowstone, and for more or less the same reason, which meant many wolves met their end by being shot by ranchers. 

[simcgunner]

Ranchers in Western US have a policy. Shoot, Shovel, Shut-up.l

[old man]

On 14/03/2022 at 08:51, islandgun said:

The unintentional introduction of another predator the Mink didn't work out to well,  NatureScot freely admit that fox predate Pine Marten which begs the question what about wolves ?   Im not sure how you would convince a wolf to stay tucked away in the highlands without some very high fences, I would love to see a wolf in the wild but cant see it being popular with many..... got a problem with Deer ? how about shooting and getting the meat into the food chain 

Way,way too much common sense there?

[Walker570]

The crazies have been let out of the mad house again.  This country is nowhere near big enough to support wolves as nature intended. Go and ask the hunting fraternity in Slovenia where wolves have entered from neighbouring Hunary and are devatating the roe deer population and any goats and sheep they happen on  and Slovenia has a lot more wild country than we do.

Better still to devolve the Forestry Commision and lease blocks of land to hunters with a set cull to reach or they lose the lease.  Get some shot.   That way the local crofter/farmers sheep and cattle are going to be safe.  As said the three S's have evolved in the USA. Shoot Shovel and Shut up.

[williamwansbeck]

On the plus side alot of hill farmers will have some nice new fireside rugs.

[Fellside]

The only way they could be reintroduced successfully in areas of the USA was with a cast iron guarantee of compensation for lost farm stock. The first project (pre compensation) failed as  the reintroduced wolves were all shot….every single one of them.  Actually, if lessons learned from the USA are applied here, there would not be a reintroduction at all, because as the pack numbers increase, they are extremely wide ranging. Even Scotland can’t offer the kind of range, free of human activity, which would be required. 

[Sweet11-87]

A bloke I know who’s heavily involved in the woodland trust so he’s close to this aswell because part of the reason they want them is because deer  go through timber plantations and semi natural woodland in short order.

He knows I shoot and we got on talking about this and I asked the same question. why wouldn’t they just go for slow easy prey like humans and sheep and he replied “because they haven’t”. I looked at him a bit puzzled and he just said  “they’re more scared of us than us of them They keep out the way as best they can. it’s worked in Europe bar the odd case. He said “  we’ve got just under  half a million reds in Scotland, a hand full of wolves won’t make a dent, what they will do is keep them moving so they don’t graze one place  on mass until theirs nothing left.  it keeps disease down when they’re kept moving aswell .” He then said “some parts of Scotland have very healthy population of deer and others are a bit stagnated why do Touthink that is?. ,another thing he said  was “a hell of allot of stuff got turned loose on the moors and highlands in the 1970s following the dangerous wild animals act.  People see the felines more than the canines, it took them 600 years with a bounty on their heads to wipe them out of the uk the first time and they were never sure they did anyway. Don’t worry about it. We won’t notice a difference. 
 

it was a 10 min conversation and that’s paraphrased but the gist is they’re already their in places they just want to introduce them in the gaps.

he could be talking ****, but in the time I’ve known him he’s been pretty honest and never gave me a reason to question him. Who knows?.  

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sweet11-87

[Scully]

Let them get on with it; it won’t effect me in the slightest.