Pensions

[scouser]

Just seen on the box ,about increasing the pension age to 68, I think it’s about time we took a leaf out of the French playbook.

[Keith RW]

Brace yourself if you think that's bad, its planned to be raised up to 70 in the coming years with the system not being sustainable and no amount of mumping about it will change things.

Have a look at what "happened" with raising women's retirement age from 60 to 65 and the 3.8 million affected by the way that was implemented, there are ongoing campaigns etc. in place and talks/discussions going on behind the scenes, but I doubt very much indeed if there will ever be satisfactory results achieved.

Retirement age increases have already been accepted without any serious complaint or objection raised and us good old brits have just soaked it up and taken it on the chin as we often do,

I don't know enough on the subject but do wonder where it will all end what with now trying to tempt the over 50's back into work and support a broken system.

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Keith RW said:

Brace yourself if you think that's bad, its planned to be raised up to 70 in the coming years with the system not being sustainable and no amount of mumping about it will change things.

Have a look at what "happened" with raising women's retirement age from 60 to 65 and the 3.8 million affected by the way that was implemented, there are ongoing campaigns etc. in place and talks/discussions going on behind the scenes, but I doubt very much indeed if there will ever be satisfactory results achieved.

Retirement age increases have already been accepted without any serious complaint or objection raised and us good old brits have just soaked it up and taken it on the chin as we often do,

I don't know enough on the subject but do wonder where it will all end what with now trying to tempt the over 50's back into work and support a broken system.

Good post, one cannot help thinking how are our younger generation going to fare in working longer and many not able to save in a private pension, but then those retired now who get pension credit have been given 100s of £s extra this time and anyone on pension credit can apply for other benifits

[Agriv8]

It’s life expectancy that’s increasing so state is having to find more and more!

My workplace pension age is getting further away everyone I look as well ( ok it feels like it anyway)

not agreeing with it and it’s about time we became a little more French on the matters !

Agriv8

[Dave at kelton]

It’s simple economics the baby boomers like me are working through and the public purse can’t afford it given how long we now live. Unlike a private pension where you draw out what you put in plus any growth the state pension has simply not accrued in a safe pot. So, my understanding is that those working pay for those now retired. My wife and I had to wait to 66 and it’s just a fact of life…..the money is not there.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

the state pension has simply not accrued in a safe pot.

That is quite correct, but some countries (notably, but not exclusively) Norway did save the money - and so have a VAST Sovereign Wealth Fund on which to draw.  It is not the fault of the pensioners or workers that this wasn't/isn't done in the UK.  It has been the policy of (successive and of both colours of) government.

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

So, my understanding is that those working pay for those now retired.

That is basically correct - though you could also argue it is from all taxpayers, not just the 'working'.

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

My wife and I had to wait to 66 and it’s just a fact of life…..the money is not there.

Me too - I start drawing mine in a few days now, but I have paid in all my working life (16 to 60 excluding a break for higher education).  I funded my first few years of early retirement from privately saved funds which had been planned and saved for 30 years to 'make it possible' to retire at 60.  Then some employers pension cut in at age 65 and the state pension cuts in at 66 for me.

Edited March 30, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[Mungler]

I think my predicted state pension when I retire will be £10,000 p.a.

By then that ought to be enough for a night out for 2 adults in a Toby Carvery.

Also with people living longer and drawing more pension, because there is no magic 'ring fenced' historical pension pot where all our money has gone and now rests (and lets me honest is there a government out there that wouldn't have gone full on Robert Maxwell and raided it to solve the problem of the day?), today's pension demands have to be met by today's workers and with a dwindling working population and less youngsters coming through, the shortfall gap is widening dramatically - the system is being hammered at both ends.

Once again I make the point, anyone relying on the government for anything or to solve any of their problems will have a very long and disappointing wait...

[Dave at kelton]

34 minutes ago, Mungler said:

I think my predicted state pension when I retire will be £10,000 p.a.

By then that ought to be enough for a night out for 2 adults in a Toby Carvery.

Also with people living longer and drawing more pension, because there is no magic 'ring fenced' historical pension pot where all our money has gone and now rests (and lets me honest is there a government out there that wouldn't have gone full on Robert Maxwell and raided it to solve the problem of the day?), today's pension demands have to be met by today's workers and with a dwindling working population and less youngsters coming through, the shortfall gap is widening dramatically - the system is being hammered at both ends.

Once again I make the point, anyone relying on the government for anything or to solve any of their problems will have a very long and disappointing wait...

Dead right and add to that the disaster brought on by Thick Lizzie last year and those of us with private pension funds have seen a fall of about 20% in low risk assets. I have had to keep working a little so I don’t have to draw on a reduced pot in the hope that it might have recovered a little by the time I do. That assumes I am not laid off in the meantime.

[steve_b_wales]

Speaking to a German lady today while I'm on holiday, and I mentioned that from tomorrow I will receive state pension of £815:40 a month. She was shocked and said that she receives €2000 per month!!!!

[welsh1]

13 minutes ago, steve_b_wales said:

Speaking to a German lady today while I'm on holiday, and I mentioned that from tomorrow I will receive state pension of £815:40 a month. She was shocked and said that she receives €2000 per month!!!!

A straight comparrison can be misleading.

https://fullfact.org/online/pensions-countries-comparisons/

 

[marsh man]

We are not only living longer ( well some of us ) we are also starting our working life a lot later , my birthday was in November and I left school at Christmas age 15 , I then started with a building firm the day after Boxing day and was never out of work until I decided to retire , now what age do the majority of youngsters start full time employment ?

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, marsh man said:

We are not only living longer ( well some of us ) we are also starting our working life a lot later , my birthday was in November and I left school at Christmas age 15 , I then started with a building firm the day after Boxing day and was never out of work until I decided to retire , now what age do the majority of youngsters start full time employment ?

I worked - initially casually labour until 16 during which time I'm not sure NI was deducted, then at 16 full time.  At 18 - I went for 3 years into higher education (University) and worked in vacations.  Following University I worked (apart from 2 or 3 months following redundancy in 1987) until just before 60 when I took early retirement (effectively as an alternative to redundancy).  I have been retired since, but have not claimed any benefit as I had always planned to (be financially able to) retire at 60.

[Agriv8]

Pension funds ‘those that have a pot’ are heavily regulated to stop a repeat of the maxwell affair and even banks have to ring fence investment and general accounts.

the actuaries I have heard speak all except life expectancy to keep rising and  as a lot of cancers are treatable if caught early ! Less smoking and drinking also helps. Junk and high processed food was cited as a reducer of life expectancy. Global pandemic are obviously hot topics. Global warming is mentioned but not heard much detail!

my work brings me close to the other statistic that often overlooked with most pensions - death in service benefits for spouse and children if you were to die while paying in!

A large part of the ftse is pension funds making long term bond and stock purchases.

just a final point to raise is that those with a pot are usually checked every 3 years to confirm the pot has enough to cover the pensions of those that are paying in.

Agriv8

[Scully]

My accountant has informed me I have until 5th April to check my contributions are what they should be to qualify for a full state pension. They are, but was confused to discover I hadn’t paid enough for the two years 1999-2001, but soon remembered why. 
You can find out if you’ve paid enough by logging into the Gov. website and creating an ID number. 
Meanwhile…..

[ditchman]

I care not for your prediciment, i am suffiecently provided for Jack.....lol

[Yellow Bear]

8 minutes ago, ditchman said:

I care not for your prediciment, i am suffiecently provided for Jack.....lol

Not if labour get in power   -  Rayner is already threatening the pensions and savings of those that have them

[pigeon controller]

I paid a state pension for 41 years to qualify and retired at 56 and lived on redundancy and works pension until 65 when they both kicked in.

I can understand that they have not sufficient funds as noe you only have to have 31 years to qualify.

[Keith RW]

48 years contributions to date ..... wont be accruing any more 😉

[Agriv8]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Not if labour get in power   -  Rayner is already threatening the pensions and savings of those that have them

If labour’s get in they will implode quicker than conservatives under thick Lizzie - I don’t feel that they are able to pull together behind the gob and the barrister ! do the union that feed the Labour Party not see it ? Last one out turn the light off ( if we can scrape 50p together for the meter )

Agriv8

Edited March 30, 2023 by Agriv8

[oowee]

2 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

I paid a state pension for 41 years to qualify and retired at 56 and lived on redundancy and works pension until 65 when they both kicked in.

I can understand that they have not sufficient funds as noe you only have to have 31 years to qualify.

You will need 35 years to qualify for the full pension. Payouts start at 10 years. Fortunately you can buy additional years at around £800 a year for a payout of around £250 pa. 

56 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

If labour’s get in they will implode quicker than conservatives under thick Lizzie - I don’t feel that they are able to pull together behind the gob and the barrister ! do the union that feed the Labour Party not see it ? Last one out turn the light off ( if we can scrape 50p together for the meter )

Agriv8

You would expect pensions to stabalize under labour as they will allow increased migration to increase workers paying. I doubt any government can afford the triple lock much longer give the woeful state of finances.

It looks like the plan to increase the pension age will fail due to falling life expectancy under this Government. 

Unfortunately they have also increased the age people can access their own savings under SIPP and also want to link private pension age to state pension age. 

[armsid]

Does that mean all taxpayer funded pensions should all kick in at state pension age? We are paying vast sums out in welfare payments to those fit to work, those coming into the country by illegal means giving aid to countries with nukes those with space programs .How does the pensions work in France and other European countries If no one under 30  is working (and is fit to work) why expect the older ones to continue unless they are going to train people for the future

[oldypigeonpopper]

21 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Good post, one cannot help thinking how are our younger generation going to fare in working longer and many not able to save in a private pension, but then those retired now who get pension credit have been given 100s of £s extra this time and anyone on pension credit can apply for other benifits

Hello, now looking at the figures I am changing 100s of £s to a few £1000s , does it really pay to save or even can our younger generation afford to save 🤔🤔

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, now looking at the figures I am changing 100s of £s to a few £1000s , does it really pay to save or even can our younger generation afford to save 🤔🤔

It depends on what you want.  There are two choices, one of which has a lot of 'sub-choices'.

1. You can choose to rely on the State.  This is (sort of) free - in that your 'entitlement' comes out of your working life NI and taxes paid, and the actual payment comes from general taxation (including NI) being paid in by others as you are drawing out.  As things stand, even if you have no pension 'entitlement', the state has a benefits system that will pay you an income until the day you die.
2. You can choose to save for your retirement to give you (in theory anyway) a better income in retirement.  This can be any form of savings and some come with tax incentives. 

• A 'pension plan' (currently) gives tax relief at the time you pay into it, so is possibly better for higher rate taxpayers, but has had a cap on the total 'pot' size that can be saved tax free - which has just been removed.
• An ISA type product is bought from taxed income but is (currently) free from tax on both income/withdrawals and capital gains.
• Other forms (like property for example) are able to be utilised in a 'self invested pension plan' (SIPP).  These can be quite complex in the rules governing them.

One major risk is that governments have a habit of changing the rules almost annually - sometimes in really major ways, making it really hard for the saver to know what is best in the long term.  Notably, Gordon Brown, when Chancellor 'raided' everyone's pensions savings.  recent Chancellors (Osborne, Hammond etc.) have lowered the capped total you are allowed tax free, but the current Chancellor (Hunt) has just removed the cap .......... but Labour say they will put it back if they come to power!  How is anyone supposed to plan for the future?

The other major risk is that pensions (and/or other benefits to the elderly like winter fuel payments) as a whole will be 'means tested' and only available (from the state) to those who have limited or no savings of their own (rather as care for the elderly is).  Again, this has been 'hinted at'.

A key question for the future will be is it a case of

• "everyone paid in, so everyone gets the same benefits out"
• or will it be "only those who haven't saved and so can't afford to live without a state pension will get one"?

Edited March 31, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[Bigbob]

Retirement and the pension has caused a few problems for me but i will get threw it you don't have a choice , i would of had a comfortable retirement but then nearly everything doubled in price , If you earn more than the minimum your taxed on it  ,they make sure they get it back at both ends . The DWP sends you a letter saying your underpaid your tax there going to take 3 thousand off you to make sure they recover YOUR UNDERPAYMENT ? but they take it off at source . My pensions going up 11% so i take it i will have underpaid this year again ?. Then when i get my old age pension i will loose the lot in tax . So is it worth saving up and getting a private pension for your old age ? 

[oowee]

28 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

Retirement and the pension has caused a few problems for me but i will get threw it you don't have a choice , i would of had a comfortable retirement but then nearly everything doubled in price , If you earn more than the minimum your taxed on it  ,they make sure they get it back at both ends . The DWP sends you a letter saying your underpaid your tax there going to take 3 thousand off you to make sure they recover YOUR UNDERPAYMENT ? but they take it off at source . My pensions going up 11% so i take it i will have underpaid this year again ?. Then when i get my old age pension i will loose the lot in tax . So is it worth saving up and getting a private pension for your old age ? 

? If it has pushed your income over £100 k when you will loose personal allowance and pay tax at 45% effectively a 95% tax rate other wise it will be at marginal rate. You will still be better off. You have done well to get 11% increase I think most will get cpi which was around 10%.