Are clay cartridges (7.5’s) suitable for pigeons and crows?

[Bobba]

I have for years shot a 20 bore and have almost always used 28grm 6’s on pigeons and crows. Not having bought cartridges for a long time now and down to my last 500 I thought I would stock up. A 250 slab locally is now around £120 !! Jeepers Creepers. Almost 50p a shot.

Clay rounds are significantly cheaper but I’ve no idea or experience on whether the lighter load is suitable or too light and would do more damage than good. Hence the question. Advice welcomed please. Thanks.

[jall25]

I have been using Hull Superfast this year on the crows and Jacks and have found them very good 

The only thing to make sure though is that they are fibre wads 

[TOPGUN749]

The load of 28 grams is enough,and if you stick to reasonable ranges under 40 yards and use more choke the 2.3 mm shot should kill well enough.Should still get game loads for £330 a thousand.

[London Best]

A cartridge is a cartridge!
You will find the “clay” cartridges will work just fine. Don’t worry about the lighter load. 
28 grams is a heavy load for a 20 bore anyway. If you try to fire that in a traditional SxS 20 bore it will jump off your shoulder.......mine does at 5 3/4 pounds. 
I find crows/pigeons are killed quite effectively by 14 gram loads of 7, 7 1/2 or even 9’s from a .410.  Small shot is the secret.
 

[Scully]

If you’re using 28 grm 6’s then wouldn’t it make more sense to use a 12 bore if thinking of using trap loads? 
Same load cheaper cartridges. 
My favourite clay load are Eley Select 28grm 7.5’s at 65 quid a slab. 

[Fellside]

This one has done the rounds before on PW. If I recall, there were as many people who liked 7 1/2 for pigeons as those who didn’t. Personally, for what it’s worth, I find them quite limiting. OK for over the decoys, but not great beyond that. I suppose there’s a very good reason why the manufacturers produce 6s for pigeons….?!

Post script. An ounce of UK 7s (2.4mm) is a different story. Very user friendly through an open choke - and more reach. 

[Westley]

2 hours ago, Bobba said:

I have for years shot a 20 bore and have almost always used 28grm 6’s on pigeons and crows. Not having bought cartridges for a long time now and down to my last 500 I thought I would stock up. A 250 slab locally is now around £120 !! Jeepers Creepers. Almost 50p a shot.

Clay rounds are significantly cheaper but I’ve no idea or experience on whether the lighter load is suitable or too light and would do more damage than good. Hence the question. Advice welcomed please. Thanks.

I used a 20 bore semi auto for years on pigeons and inland Wildfowling. You have highlighted the reason for swapping it for a 12 bore.

[rbrowning2]

I would shop around 20ga 28gm fibre wads 6shot can still be had for under £100 a slab.

[enfieldspares]

English # 7.5? Great on crows and marvellous on magpies and, within the terms of the General Licence, jays. Pattern kills. On pigeon it depends on how much shot you hit them with. They'll kill dead and dead right there in the air but maybe fill the bird with too much shot if you are going to eat it?

Edited July 28, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Ultrastu]

English

7.5  =  2.3 mm 

7 =  2.4 mm 

6 =   2.6 mm 

Italian  

7.5 =  2.4 mm

6 = 2.7 mm 

I shoot all of these sizes in all cals from 12 to 410  and I have to say 2.4 mm is my fave   but they all kill because basically there is very little difference in it .buy the cheapest and have fun .

 

[Bobba]

Thanks one and all.

[Wilts#Dave]

Never bothered using 28 gram loads in 20 bore as the light gun I use recoils enough to put me off on a busy day. 
Never used many clay loads on pigeons, didn’t get on overly well with them when I tried some years ago. 
Saying that, I think I’d be more confident in using them nowadays…..used a lot of 7’s through the .410 and was amazed how well they performed, it’s definitely a lot to do with how they pattern. 
Small bore cartridges in particular are getting ridiculously expensive now, I bought 1000 for my 28 bore the other day and paid just over £440 / 1000. 
The same shells back at Christmas were £385 and a fair bit less than that the summer before! 

[London Best]

10 hours ago, Wilts#Dave said:

Never bothered using 28 gram loads in 20 bore as the light gun I use recoils enough to put me off on a busy day. 
 

A friend of mine, 20 bore man, full time shooting instructor, saw me shooting with a SxS and wanted to try one because he had never ever fired one. (Shooting instructor). So, next shoot I lent him my 20, having warned him that his usual cartridges were no good for it as it was a 2 1/2 inch chamber. He declined my offer of cartridges and said he would buy some 2 1/2 inch. Sure enough he turned up with a slab. After the first drive he didn’t want to use my (proper) gun any more because “ it recoils so badly it jumps off my shoulder and I can’t control it.” He had fired a dozen shots and not hit a partridge, and he can really shoot. Sure enough, when I checked he had bought 2 1/2 inch cartridges, but with a 28 gram load. I was surprised that such a 20 bore cartridge even existed. He didn’t realise that a traditional 20 bore load is much less. Shooting instructor? The blind leading the blind.

[Wilts#Dave]

5 hours ago, London Best said:

A friend of mine, 20 bore man, full time shooting instructor, saw me shooting with a SxS and wanted to try one because he had never ever fired one. (Shooting instructor). So, next shoot I lent him my 20, having warned him that his usual cartridges were no good for it as it was a 2 1/2 inch chamber. He declined my offer of cartridges and said he would buy some 2 1/2 inch. Sure enough he turned up with a slab. After the first drive he didn’t want to use my (proper) gun any more because “ it recoils so badly it jumps off my shoulder and I can’t control it.” He had fired a dozen shots and not hit a partridge, and he can really shoot. Sure enough, when I checked he had bought 2 1/2 inch cartridges, but with a 28 gram load. I was surprised that such a 20 bore cartridge even existed. He didn’t realise that a traditional 20 bore load is much less. Shooting instructor? The blind leading the blind.

It’s just not necessary is it and defeats the object for me…..funny how people try and stuff the biggest load they can through smaller bores then claim either how effective they are or how bad the recoil is! 
I’ll just use the 12 bore if I think I need to use heavier loads, but the small bores with lighter loads when there’s little felt recoil are just a joy to shoot…..it’s amazing how well they kill if you can shoot straight. 

[Bobba]

19 hours ago, Wilts#Dave said:

It’s just not necessary is it and defeats the object for me…..funny how people try and stuff the biggest load they can through smaller bores then claim either how effective they are or how bad the recoil is! 

 Without wishing to open up a debate on this issue I thought I would mention what can happen to the innocent (me) when starting out down this road

10 yrs ago my farming friend invited me to get a a shotgun for crop protection and given my age (then 69) recommended 20 bore as a lighter more manageable shotgun. I visited a well known West Country gun room and settled on a Miroku MK60. I then said I needed cartridges for pigeons, crows an rabbits and was sold a slab of Lyalvale 28grm 6’s. Knowing no different I presumed this was the standard set up.

The shotgun was fixed chokes so I popped up to the then Nigel Teague workshop for multi chokes, gunfit and kickeezee pad and have mostly used this arrangement ever since without any problems.
 

However, now 1 mth off of 80yrs I have to admit that following a busy day I do feel the twinges the following day so, following comments here, my next slab will be to try a lighter load.

I have tried 12 bores but remain wedded to my 20 bore. So if anyone is interested in a Beretta sporter adjustable stock, or SKB 200e SxS please get in touch 👍

 

[Fellside]

22 hours ago, Wilts#Dave said:

It’s just not necessary is it and defeats the object for me…..funny how people try and stuff the biggest load they can through smaller bores then claim either how effective they are or how bad the recoil is! 
I’ll just use the 12 bore if I think I need to use heavier loads, but the small bores with lighter loads when there’s little felt recoil are just a joy to shoot…..it’s amazing how well they kill if you can shoot straight. 

I completely agree. When you see how effective 18 grams of 7s are through a 410…..?! 

By comparison, 24 or 25 grams through a 20 bore seems more than enough. 

[Wilts#Dave]

3 hours ago, Bobba said:

 Without wishing to open up a debate on this issue I thought I would mention what can happen to the innocent (me) when starting out down this road

10 yrs ago my farming friend invited me to get a a shotgun for crop protection and given my age (then 69) recommended 20 bore as a lighter more manageable shotgun. I visited a well known West Country gun room and settled on a Miroku MK60. I then said I needed cartridges for pigeons, crows an rabbits and was sold a slab of Lyalvale 28grm 6’s. Knowing no different I presumed this was the standard set up.

The shotgun was fixed chokes so I popped up to the then Nigel Teague workshop for multi chokes, gunfit and kickeezee pad and have mostly used this arrangement ever since without any problems.
 

However, now 1 mth off of 80yrs I have to admit that following a busy day I do feel the twinges the following day so, following comments here, my next slab will be to try a lighter load.

I have tried 12 bores but remain wedded to my 20 bore. So if anyone is interested in a Beretta sporter adjustable stock, or SKB 200e SxS please get in touch 👍

 

My Dad used to do the same with his 20 bore, 28g RC were what he used and that was that and he often said they were a bit thumpy through his lightweight Beretta.
Since found that 25g loads are much more pleasant to shoot a lot of and kill just fine (I guess I might step up to 28g if I had to use one on high pheasants). 
Give some Hull High Pheasant 25g a try, lovely smooth shells! 

[Wilts#Dave]

56 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I completely agree. When you see how effective 18 grams of 7s are through a 410…..?! 

By comparison, 24 or 25 grams through a 20 bore seems more than enough. 

Absolutely. 24/5g plenty to kill well through a 20 bore with little recoil. 

A few years back I used a .410 a fair bit and like you found that 7’s killed really well, my cartridge of choice then was the Gamebore magnums, 16g and by god didn’t they kill some good birds! 

I bought a 28 bore Silver Pigeon a few years back now, and that’s my favourite gun to use now…..found Hull High Pheasant 23g absolutely flatten pigeons at range even, and barely recoil. I shouldn’t have been surprised I guess but it seriously impressed me, so light and quick to whip up I love it in a pigeon hide! The only downside is cartridges have gone up at an alarming rate, I had to pay £445/1000 very recently. 

[Fargo]

On 30/07/2023 at 13:49, Wilts#Dave said:

It’s just not necessary is it and defeats the object for me…..funny how people try and stuff the biggest load they can through smaller bores then claim either how effective they are or how bad the recoil is! 
I’ll just use the 12 bore if I think I need to use heavier loads, but the small bores with lighter loads when there’s little felt recoil are just a joy to shoot…..it’s amazing how well they kill if you can shoot straight. 

Same as all the 32” 28b users stuffing 1oz down them… pointless and just use a 20b

[the hitman]

To answer Bobba’s question- yes you can use a 28g no7-7.5 cartridge to shoot pigeons.

My last outing resulted in 20 birds all shot with Eley Olympic blues with 3/4 & full choke. In my opinion it’s pattern that kills pigeons and clay loads do this very well.

I am not trying to test myself with long range shots- I am shooting pigeons as a service to farmers, so clay loads suit my shooting.

Cartridge companies are big on packaging and marketing- and will promote heavy loads to kill pigeons. 

If I was a cartridge manufacturer I would produce a pigeon load of 30g no 7, which I would consider to be a cracking all round load.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by the hitman

[Ultrastu]

👆 this I agree with entirely 

[Centrepin]

Methinks that when lead finally gets banned, if ever, we'll keep shot in sizes 8 and smaller. Therefore we'll all be shooting pigeon and crow with 8, 9 and variations of 8/9.

[ronscomon]

I used to use 1oz 7s for pigeon, when I shot them regularly. Absolute mustard they were. I never have understood the perceived need for large shot/heavy loads for pigeons.  28gms 7.5 is practically the same load so will work just fine. 

[BrowningDJC]

RC2 competition would be my choice for a good value pigeon load if I still shot a 12 bore regularly, Italian 7.5 which as mentioned is a UK 7. 
I think 7 shot is overlooked for pigeons and game, I’ve found it does the job perfectly at normal ranges. 

[Gerry78]

On 11/10/2023 at 20:17, ronscomon said:

I used to use 1oz 7s for pigeon, when I shot them regularly. Absolute mustard they were. I never have understood the perceived need for large shot/heavy loads for pigeons.  28gms 7.5 is practically the same load so will work just fine. 

This 👊👊