Covid. Natures way of dealing with old people. Who voted for Johnson?

[tweedledee]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Like global warming? 
 

Didn’t the CEO of BP recently say they commissioned multiple inquiries and they all said it was very much real and they have contributed significantly into the problem.

Yep.....all created to create fear and give governments more control over us..

[Centrepin]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I can see the difficulty but on the flip side, why didn’t you say no? (Genuine question). 
 

Why would you have had to pay for her to go into a care home if it wasn’t your choice / she wasn’t your dependant? 
The council would have paid if she had no money, if she had loads of money she would have been the one paying. 
 

 

Because she was my mum in law. I therefore saw her as my responsibility, or at least some responsibility for her, my wife if able would have done it. I'm also sure if the roles were reversed she would have looked after me without a second thought. It's not nice when people turn their backs or say too busy.

 

[ShootingEgg]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Like global warming? 
 

Didn’t the CEO of BP recently say they commissioned multiple inquiries and they all said it was very much real and they have contributed significantly into the problem.

Climate change is the correct term. And the climate changes all the time. Co2 which is being accused is 0.04% of the atmosphere and of that 11% is man made. So what's that 0.004% or something silly. 

I don't disagree that we may have a effect but it's not as much as they the people in power state 

Back to the topic this is just another Tory bash topic. Labour wanted even more lockdowns, definitely got seen drinking in groups and probably would have done the same restrictions if not more.. didn't it come out that sturgeon has deleted COVID WhatsApp MSG's. They are all as bad as the other. Just those in power will be looked into more. 

I genuinely don't care what they said or did. The cost of this pointless( in my opinion) enquiry is ridiculous.

[Newbie to this]

14 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

The cost of this pointless( in my opinion) enquiry is ridiculous.

^^^^This, more wasted Tax payer's money. The trough is never-ending.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Newbie to this

[Gerry78]

10 hours ago, Scully said:

There was a bloke on the news last night grieving over the fact his mother was put in a care home where she died of covid…..she was in her 90’s for crying out loud! It’s not like she had her entire life in front of her! She wasn’t going skiing or paragliding! 
She could have died at any minute, from anything. 
There’s a Marie Curie nurse in the village; she said at the time that she wanted to slap those who whinged on about their elderly parents contracting covid and dying. They were in care homes for a reason; if their children cared that much why weren’t THEY caring for them rather than farming out that responsibility to a stranger? 
The mother of a friend of mine died after getting covid in hospital where she was for a minor operation on her wrist, she was 94. One of her daughters who was 64 caught it while being allowed to visit her.
The mother had four daughters, eleven grandchildren and who knows how many great grandchildren, not one of them has any grievances to bear about her death. 
Like I’ve said elswhere, I suppose it depends on your intelligence and your agenda. 

Scully it doesn’t matter what age that blokes mother was it was still he’s mother at the end of the day Im sure families who put loved ones into care do it as a last resort as they can’t cope Boris has blood on he’s hands along with he’s minions Were was Boris intelligence when a airborne disease spreads through close contact and he didn’t give a **** that older people were stuck together in a care homes 

[discobob]

2 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

The cost of this pointless( in my opinion) enquiry is ridiculous.

As we see it - yes - but see my post on the WHO - it is building a narrative for handing over the reigns to the WHO - whose biggest private funder is The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation by a long shot.....

 

[Bigbob]

3 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

Scully it doesn’t matter what age that blokes mother was it was still he’s mother at the end of the day Im sure families who put loved ones into care do it as a last resort as they can’t cope Boris has blood on he’s hands along with he’s minions Were was Boris intelligence when a airborne disease spreads through close contact and he didn’t give a **** that older people were stuck together in a care homes 

Why single out Boris there all GUILTY Blair put the troops in to look for weapons of mass destruction found none but lots of service men where killed wasnt there a another inquiry ?. but he got a award made a knight or something and still being paid with the tax payers coin 

[Dave-G]

Many of us have made a flippant or rash comment in our past. Yes I liked the chap.

[oowee]

9 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Many of us have made a flippant or rash comment in our past. Yes I liked the chap.

I like the chap too. My point being not that he is Tory but that he is a complete buffoon, not fit for power. Whilst many saw through Corbyn for what he was those on the right were unable to make the same connection with BJ. He was simply a back stop choice, an alternative to what we definitely did not want in govt.

Unfortunately this is the way of govt here. We are unable to vote for what we want. We need a more representative (proportional) govt to make any progress. 

[amateur]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

........Unfortunately this is the way of govt here. We are unable to vote for what we want. We need a more representative (proportional) govt to make any progress. 

Why don't you suggest that the unelected civil service govern?

Then we really would be screwed.

[Penelope]

15 hours ago, tweedledee said:

Yep.....all created to create fear and give governments more control over us..

More like give others control of the governments.

[Gerry78]

11 hours ago, Bigbob said:

Why single out Boris there all GUILTY Blair put the troops in to look for weapons of mass destruction found none but lots of service men where killed wasnt there a another inquiry ?. but he got a award made a knight or something and still being paid with the tax payers coin 

We’re not talking about Tony Blair and the UK Backing USA after 9/11 we’re talking about a prime minister who during a global pandemic advised families to kept elderly and vulnerable people in care homes and who was well advised that it could possibly kill them as a airborne disease was passing from person to person in close proximity Not to mention he shut the UK DOWN and continued to have parties with he’s cohorts at Downing Street The guy is a complete IDIOT or who is the biggest idiots Boris or the people who voted for Him !!! 

[Dave-G]

18 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

We’re not talking about Tony Blair and the UK Backing USA after 9/11 we’re talking about a prime minister who during a global pandemic advised families to kept elderly and vulnerable people in care homes and who was well advised that it could possibly kill them as a airborne disease was passing from person to person in close proximity Not to mention he shut the UK DOWN and continued to have parties with he’s cohorts at Downing Street The guy is a complete IDIOT or who is the biggest idiots Boris or the people who voted for Him !!! 

OK, lets go with that for a moment to please those who supposedly now know more: he was following advice from experts who apparently 'knew' what to do, as any PM should. Remember it was new to the whole world then.

Who do Boris haters suggest we should have voted for at the time he was elected - without the knowledge we have now?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Dave-G

[discobob]

14 minutes ago, Gerry78 said:

The guy is a complete IDIOT or who is the biggest idiots Boris or the people who voted for Him !!! 

But Liebour wanted to lockdown harder and faster. From what is coming out - BJ basically wanted to go the Swedish route - but was persuaded to go full lockdown. By who (indirectly) I won't put my guess down (mind you Henry D isn't here to through the tin foil hat accusation anymore). 

Lets face it, Starmer has openly said that he prefers Davos to Parliament - lets see what that holds for our future if they are elected.

[old man]

16 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Climate change is the correct term. And the climate changes all the time. Co2 which is being accused is 0.04% of the atmosphere and of that 11% is man made. So what's that 0.004% or something silly. 

I don't disagree that we may have a effect but it's not as much as they the people in power state 

Back to the topic this is just another Tory bash topic. Labour wanted even more lockdowns, definitely got seen drinking in groups and probably would have done the same restrictions if not more.. didn't it come out that sturgeon has deleted COVID WhatsApp MSG's. They are all as bad as the other. Just those in power will be looked into more. 

I genuinely don't care what they said or did. The cost of this pointless( in my opinion) enquiry is ridiculous.

Absolutely.

No one is ever accountable anyway, all by design of course?

 

1 hour ago, Gerry78 said:

We’re not talking about Tony Blair and the UK Backing USA after 9/11 we’re talking about a prime minister who during a global pandemic advised families to kept elderly and vulnerable people in care homes and who was well advised that it could possibly kill them as a airborne disease was passing from person to person in close proximity Not to mention he shut the UK DOWN and continued to have parties with he’s cohorts at Downing Street The guy is a complete IDIOT or who is the biggest idiots Boris or the people who voted for Him !!! 

Maybe modern democracy in action?  Presently, any vote for any politico is a waste?

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

I like the chap too. My point being not that he is Tory but that he is a complete buffoon, not fit for power. Whilst many saw through Corbyn for what he was those on the right were unable to make the same connection with BJ. He was simply a back stop choice, an alternative to what we definitely did not want in govt.

Correct, democracy is about choosing the least worst option available at the time.  I think, respectfully, you're being a little naiive if you think PR or a variation thereof will fix that.  I certainly doesn't in other PR-embracing countries.

 

1 hour ago, discobob said:

But Liebour wanted to lockdown harder and faster. From what is coming out - BJ basically wanted to go the Swedish route - but was persuaded to go full lockdown.

A real shame for our kids, the economy and the people in old folks' homes that he didn't have the testicular fortitude to pursue that.  Many lives could've been saved. 

Remember, in Sweden the vulnerable/elderly were given the resources to shield.  It also meant that a 96yr old Swedish relative, was able to spend her last year on this planet seeing her family, not locked up in an old folks home!

 

1 hour ago, discobob said:

(mind you Henry D isn't here to through the tin foil hat accusation anymore). 

Every cloud and all that 😂

 

17 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Back to the topic this is just another Tory bash topic. Labour wanted even more lockdowns, definitely got seen drinking in groups and probably would have done the same restrictions if not more...didn't it come out that sturgeon has deleted COVID WhatsApp MSG's. They are all as bad as the other. Just those in power will be looked into more. 

So much this.  Every world leader blatantly ignored their own rules, but only in the UK was it a resignation issue.  It confuses people in other countries, where they just expect politicians to be hypocritical. 

[oowee]

38 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Correct, democracy is about choosing the least worst option available at the time.  I think, respectfully, you're being a little naiive if you think PR or a variation thereof will fix that.  I certainly doesn't in other PR-embracing countries.

Least worst option, but so many were fooled into thinking that BJ could be anything other than a complete numpty. He and Corbyn were on a pedestal of numptyness. 

It would be more democratic and better reflect the views of the electorate. It would avoid extremes. 

It could hardly be worse than the swings and treading water that we have had over the last 20 years. 

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

It would be more democratic and better reflect the views of the electorate. It would avoid extremes. 

It could hardly be worse than the swings and treading water that we have had over the last 20 years. 

It would mean , rather than 2 parties arguing over every policy put forward, and sometimes getting something done, there would be 5 + parties arguing over policy, and NOTHING ever getting done.
Besides the fact that you appear to believe (with exceptions) far too much in the integrity of our elected politicos, and even more in the integrity of the civil servants who actually implement these policies.

Throw into this mish mash of decision making, other bodies who have a say, like the EU , WEF , WHO and the ECHR , and you have a chaotic system that no member of the populace has any real faith in.
The whole thing is a mess, and this seems to be by design rather than mere coincidence.

[Dave-G]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

Least worst option, but so many were fooled into thinking that BJ could be anything other than a complete numpty. He and Corbyn were on a pedestal of numptyness. 

It would be more democratic and better reflect the views of the electorate. It would avoid extremes. 

It could hardly be worse than the swings and treading water that we have had over the last 20 years. 

So who do you feel would have been the right choice - at that time?

[oowee]

47 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

So who do you feel would have been the right choice - at that time?

? Where? 

54 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It would mean , rather than 2 parties arguing over every policy put forward, and sometimes getting something done, there would be 5 + parties arguing over policy, and NOTHING ever getting done.
Besides the fact that you appear to believe (with exceptions) far too much in the integrity of our elected politicos, and even more in the integrity of the civil servants who actually implement these policies.

Throw into this mish mash of decision making, other bodies who have a say, like the EU , WEF , WHO and the ECHR , and you have a chaotic system that no member of the populace has any real faith in.
The whole thing is a mess, and this seems to be by design rather than mere coincidence.

Through this process different groups would moderate decision making. We could form longer term plans for education and the NHS that would have a broader vase of support, be less radical and make incremental change. Now we simply have no change or worse, change for change sake. Look at the continuous changes to education. 

There are many great and dedicated politicians in most parties but they are often the least likely to get air time. They simply don't make very good viewing. 

[Gerry78]

4 hours ago, Dave-G said:

OK, lets go with that for a moment to please those who supposedly now know more: he was following advice from experts who apparently 'knew' what to do, as any PM should. Remember it was new to the whole world then.

Who do Boris haters suggest we should have voted for at the time he was elected - without the knowledge we have now?

I hate all politicians not just Boris and the Tories to me the general public they promise the world then do what they want when they get into power Maybe it’s us who are naive thinking any politician is gonna really deliver on what they promised that’s why I don’t vote here in N Ireland I’m not even gonna bother getting into a debate on this forum about the idiots we have here in NI 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Through this process different groups would moderate decision making.

How can a decision even be made without a majority decision ?
Multiple groups all pulling at their own agendas is less likely to work.
Just look at European parliaments made up of multiple parties for examples of this, all they do is gravitate towards left and right wing ideals, and form alliances to get even the most basic governmental decisions passed.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

We could form longer term plans for education and the NHS that would have a broader vase of support, be less radical and make incremental change.

As above, except with the added interference of the unions, who will most likely support the left wing parties, due to their roots being firmly based in communism.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

There are many great and dedicated politicians in most parties but they are often the least likely to get air time. They simply don't make very good viewing. 

They dont get airtime because they dont sing from the accepted song sheet, then you get odious little cretins like Hancock , who isnt fit to run a corner shop, never mind a government department, or the 'grey man' Starmer , who has never uttered anything useful or sensible since he became opposition leader.
These useful idiots can have all the airtime they want, because they speak woke fluently.

[discobob]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Look at the continuous changes to education. 

I said it after reading that representatives of the Welsh Assembly had been into schools banging on about how good the 20mph is (indoctrination) that schools should be totally non-political - it is up to people to find out what their politics is - and what they are taught should not be political - emphasis may be given to concentrate on because there is a projected shortfall of STEM etc... but that is it. Teachers should be sacked for foisting their views onto students - supported by parents telling their kids (wrongly) to do as the teacher/school tells them...

[Vince Green]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

 

Unfortunately this is the way of govt here. We are unable to vote for what we want. We need a more representative (proportional) govt to make any progress. 

None of them are up to the job. Proportional representation in other countries has just led to political infighting consuming all the available time and no running of the country getting done.

[Scully]

21 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

Scully it doesn’t matter what age that blokes mother was it was still he’s mother at the end of the day Im sure families who put loved ones into care do it as a last resort as they can’t cope Boris has blood on he’s hands along with he’s minions Were was Boris intelligence when a airborne disease spreads through close contact and he didn’t give a **** that older people were stuck together in a care homes 

You’re right, it doesn’t matter what age she was, and yes, she’s still his Mother, as mine was to me, but we have to face realities and live in the real world. He was making it sound like she’d be out there living the life of Riley if not for Boris. She wouldn’t be; she was a frail old lady, and I’ve no doubt there was a bit of guilt on his behalf for shoving her into a home in the first place. 
Boris doesn’t have any blood on his hands; he was playing a guessing game with the aid of advisors in a situation which none of us knew the outcome. 
Care homes and their shareholders make an absolute fortune from the misfortune of others and children hellbent on farming out their responsibilities to complete strangers, and then they turn round and claim they were put upon with no support from government!