Fentanyl, coming to a street near you

[Genghis]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

giving the benefit your serious no it’s the gov fault our kids crack arrives faster than deliveroo! common sense dictated you don’t hand drug dealers something unstoppable 

I think that drug dealers got by just fine before electic scooters and would get by just as well if they were banned. Your comment is the first I’ve ever heard of it being their preferred method of transport. I don’t think they are as ‘unstoppable’ as you think they are.

 

I think that electric scooters are silly, but as shooting men we should know better than to arbitrarily call for bans on things we don’t like.

[Acerforestry]

I think freqently that it's easy to forget that more than one of these opioid type drugs were originally FDA approved pharmacueticals, (think oxycodin, too)that have gradually gained appeal with the cartels, due to their ease and economy of manufacture - that is what is happening with fentanyl, apparently easy to concoct in a lab, and cheap too so the Mexican and other cartels are knocking it out by the tonne and getting it across the border, hence the resulting mayhem. Sadly if you watch the part-factual films about these drugs many people started off with them for genuine pain relief before becoming hopelessly hooked. Ultimately, blame the authorities for allowing Big Pharma to push products that are highly addictive and poorly controlled, just to bolster the bank balances of pharma CEO's who don't give a damn about anyone

Edited December 12, 2023 by Acerforestry
spelling

[islandgun]

25 minutes ago, Acerforestry said:

I think freqently that it's easy to forget that more than one of these opioid type drugs were originally FDA approved pharmacueticals, (think oxycodin, too)that have gradually gained appeal with the cartels, due to their ease and economy of manufacture - that is what is happening with fentanyl, apparently easy to concoct in a lab, and cheap too so the Mexican and other cartels are knocking it out by the tonne and getting it across the border, hence the resulting mayhem. Sadly if you watch the part-factual films about these drugs many people started off with them for genuine pain relief before becoming hopelessly hooked. Ultimately, blame the authorities for allowing Big Pharma to push products that are highly addictive and poorly controlled, just to bolster the bank balances of pharma CEO's who don't give a damn about anyone

Good post

[Minky]

GUBERNMENT and the rulers etc used to control the population by war, famine and pestilence. Human population is just like rats.  When the thin veneer of  civilization is scratched off it just like rats. Look at what happened in Saigon at the end of the Vietnam War  or what happened in kabul when we pulled out of Afghanistan.   WE PROMISED to help those who fought alongside us.   And did we .,,, Nahh .  And those that got out to Pakistan are in hiding under threat of being sent back to the taliban. And so why are we worrying about people who take drugs.  Its their choice.  I don't  feel the need to rush out and get drugs.

[Dave-G]

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

giving the benefit your serious no it’s the gov fault our kids crack arrives faster than deliveroo! common sense dictated you don’t hand drug dealers something unstoppable 

Ah so stop criminal gangs having access to transport - yea that should do it. 

[Lloyd90]

9 hours ago, clangerman said:

it’s a lost war because within mins of putting the phone down some kid on an electric scooter knocks with your drugs and who allowed use of this unstoppable delivery tool for drug dealers? the government! 

Surely you’re not suggesting that electric scooters are the source of illegal drugs? 
 

The war on e-scooters? 🤣🤣

[dogone]

   Canada stopped printing $1000.00 bills. This was to prevent drug traffickers from easily moving large amounts of cash. It has obviously worked extremely well.🤔

[Mungler]

I’m in two minds. 

Years ago I watched a monkey test - a table full of fruit, nuts all the way through to booze and fags. Long story short, the monkeys smashed into the booze and fags first teaching us that it is intrinsically in our DNA to want to get hammered and that’s the base line. 

Prohibition made gangsters wealthy; JFK’s dad was a bootlegger who ran booze from Canada to the States and that’s where the Kennedy family fortune came from. If Al Capone had wound his neck in and paid some tax no doubt one of his grandchildren would be running for President now.

The war on drugs hasn’t worked and isn’t working despite all the money and kitchen sinks thrown at it from Regan onwards. The war on drugs also criminalises a lot of idiots who aren’t actually criminals sic. take peak at the population of US prisons.

I have 3 young lads and in their school years / peer groups drugs are prevalent and are normal course - fortunately my lot are (currently) a mix of gym freak, sensible to too tight to go down that path, but anything can change.

I have seen the damage drugs can do to a developing brain and so my bottom line on any legalisation argument (which I broadly support to take money away from criminals and increase the tax take from a sector that is unavoidable and uncontrollable) is a prohibition and the toughest penalties for supplying anyone under 25. If you’re 25 and above fill your boots - we could all be pouring vodka over our corn flakes every morning but not all of us do and you don’t have to ban vodka in the name of protecting society from Itself (and which you can’t do anyway per the monkeys).

Tricky one though. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mungler

[Poor Shot]

11 hours ago, Minky said:

And so why are we worrying about people who take drugs.  Its their choice.  I don't  feel the need to rush out and get drugs.

I'm sure 99% of people couldn't give a toss should someone else want to go down that path and ruin their lives. That's on the individual to make those life choices. 

It's when that life choice starts to interfere with the lives of others when the individual has to lie, cheat and steal from others to fund that drug or alcohol habit. Ask any tradesman who's recently had their van broken into and their livelihoods stolen just how they feel about addicts and other associated scum. Its rife just now. 

[Miserableolgit]

I was prescribed Fentanyl when in hospital with cancer. The drug is an effective painkiller, one that I found far more effective at reducing discomfort than morphine. It is highly addictive and all things considered I am not surprised illegal use has risen so much.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Miserableolgit

[Scully]

24 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

I'm sure 99% of people couldn't give a toss should someone else want to go down that path and ruin their lives. That's on the individual to make those life choices. 

It's when that life choice starts to interfere with the lives of others when the individual has to lie, cheat and steal from others to fund that drug or alcohol habit. Ask any tradesman who's recently had their van broken into and their livelihoods stolen just how they feel about addicts and other associated scum. Its rife just now. 

This. 

[udderlyoffroad]

10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Surely you’re not suggesting that electric scooters are the source of illegal drugs? 
 

The war on e-scooters? 🤣🤣

Have you been in Bristol recently?

Avon & Somerset seem to be actively ignoring these things, and the crime they facilitate.  Someone will be killed soon.  For some bizarre reason the government is complicit in allowing their use on pavements.

They need to be treated as any other vehicle, licence plates, on roads only, third party insurance minimum.  Helmet and high viz compulsory at all times.

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Have you been in Bristol recently?

Avon & Somerset seem to be actively ignoring these things, and the crime they facilitate.  Someone will be killed soon.  For some bizarre reason the government is complicit in allowing their use on pavements.

They need to be treated as any other vehicle, licence plates, on roads only, third party insurance minimum.  Helmet and high viz compulsory at all times.

I would second this, but they wont even do it for cycles so you have no chance for scooters.

[old man]

20 hours ago, Bigbob said:

Think it a long history of not enough money invested in border control , police etc This country's on it knees due to drugs and immigrants 

And the tories are moaning they wont get back in due to the Rwanda deal 

Just an illustration maybe of their collective intelligence? Defies description?

20 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Legalise 'party' and recreational drugs and take the control out of the hands of the criminals.

If you could go to a club for example and buy over the counter substances which are industrially produced and regulated then there would be no need to buy charlie or MDMA cut with fentanyl and drywall from some dodgy bloke with a burner phone. Part of what makes these drugs so damaging is the lack of control over their strength and what they have been diluted with. If you could ensure that these substances are sold in fixed quantities with a known strength then a large part of the risk is eliminated.

A lot of overdoses come from using very weak and low percent purity substances for the most part with the occasional batch being very high purity. When a regular user then takes the high purity stuff in the same quantity they find themselves dead very quickly. There is no way for the user to know what they have. 

I would also suggest that they are taxed in same way alcohol and tabaco are and the earnings directed toward prevention and treatment. 

If a criminal organisation can ship coke half way around the world through multiple parties with each stage taking a cut of profit with a healthy allowance for interruptions by the law then I'm sure that approved organisations could manufacture, distribute and sell these products in licensed facilities for far less even with a large percentage of tax. 

Buying in this way also removes the link to harder drugs. There will be no more 'Sorry pal, don't have any coke but I have this crack you can try. It's the same buzz, trust me'.  

It seems to work well enough in Amsterdam and large parts of the US with Cannabis. 

Nope!

[Poor Shot]

17 minutes ago, old man said:

Just an illustration maybe of their collective intelligence? Defies description?

Nope!

Please tell me how you would tackle the issue? Given that we've already proven the prohibition doesn't work. 

[Mungler]

48 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Please tell me how you would tackle the issue? Given that we've already proven the prohibition doesn't work. 

 

More prohibition and more policing gets you "the USA" where they have scores of (private) prisons, massive levels of incarceration and yet they still face a drugs epidemic.

What did Einstein say about repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome...?

[old man]

2 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Please tell me how you would tackle the issue? Given that we've already proven the prohibition doesn't work. 

There probably is no answer available currently? 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

More prohibition and more policing gets you "the USA" where they have scores of (private) prisons, massive levels of incarceration and yet they still face a drugs epidemic.

What did Einstein say about repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome...?

👍

[clangerman]

20 hours ago, Genghis said:

I think that drug dealers got by just fine before electic scooters and would get by just as well if they were banned. Your comment is the first I’ve ever heard of it being their preferred method of transport. I don’t think they are as ‘unstoppable’ as you think they are.

.

having been trusted enough by a dealer over 12yrs to the extent I carried his coffin when I say endless gear is now moved by scooter it’s fact not a comment 

[Acerforestry]

8 hours ago, Miserableolgit said:

I was prescribed Fentanyl when in hospital with cancer. The drug is an effective painkiller, one that I found far more effective at reducing discomfort than morphine. It is highly addictive and all things considered I am not surprised illegal use has risen so much.

Exactly the issue with pretty much any heavy painkiller - they are addictive. There is no straightforward solution to that problem

[Scully]

43 minutes ago, clangerman said:

having been trusted enough by a dealer over 12yrs to the extent I carried his coffin when I say endless gear is now moved by scooter it’s fact not a comment 

Eh? I’m assuming by ‘dealer’ you’re referring to him dealing in scooters? If so, by your logic, he was part of the problem! 🤷‍♂️

 

[7daysinaweek]

Fentanyl is a extremely potent synthetic opiod, when prescribed responsibly it is a very useful pain relief. I give you an example on it's medicinal strength.

Oral morphine tablet 20mg over 24 hours conversion into fentanyl by slow infusion under the skin dose equivalent, 500mcg over 24 hours. 1000mcg in 1 mg.

It can cause lethal overdose in opiate naive individuals.

Strong stuff! 

The street stuff can be mixed with all kinds and dosing fentanyl ingredient into the preparation can be anyones guess, hugely increasing the chance of sudden death. Along with illicit heroin, cocaine and steroids the country seems more awash than ever, never in my life have known so many people taking the stuff.

[udderlyoffroad]

8 hours ago, Mungler said:

More prohibition and more policing gets you "the USA" where they have scores of (private) prisons, massive levels of incarceration and yet they still face a drugs epidemic.

What did Einstein say about repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome...?

The older I get, the more sympathy I have with Peter Hitchens' viewpoint (on this topic only) viz. "what war on drugs?" - there appears to be minimal effort expended to catch and punish drug dealers and users.

As for the USA - broad brush strokes.  When I was most recently in the Republic of California (admittedly Jan 2020) I saw the effects drug abuse in general and fentanyl in particular was having.  Just across the border in Arizona, it was like a different world.

 

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

having been trusted enough by a dealer over 12yrs to the extent I carried his coffin when I say endless gear is now moved by scooter it’s fact not a comment 

Aesop and his famous quote springs to mind...

[Vince Green]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The older I get, the more sympathy I have with Peter Hitchens' viewpoint (on this topic only) viz. "what war on drugs?" - there appears to be minimal effort expended to catch and punish drug dealers and users.

As for the USA - broad brush strokes.  When I was most recently in the Republic of California (admittedly Jan 2020) I saw the effects drug abuse in general and fentanyl in particular was having.  Just across the border in Arizona, it was like a different world.

 

Aesop and his famous quote springs to mind...

Drug dealing is tolerated because if we legalised drugs it would deprive a lot of antisocial scumbags of a very good living. Which would mean (being scumbags) they would look for other ways of getting their hands on easy money.

Those 'other ways' would be more visible to the general public and would look like a massive and uncontrollable crime wave. With all the implications for the police and politicians. 

So they look the other way 

 W

[Lloyd90]

11 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Have you been in Bristol recently?

Avon & Somerset seem to be actively ignoring these things, and the crime they facilitate.  Someone will be killed soon.  For some bizarre reason the government is complicit in allowing their use on pavements.

They need to be treated as any other vehicle, licence plates, on roads only, third party insurance minimum.  Helmet and high viz compulsory at all times.

Yes, they’re awful; but they’re not the source of drug dealing 🤣

Have worked in Bristols social sector for years now, there was rampant drug dealing long before e-scooters.