samboy Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Hi gang. A chap i know was imprisoned for firearm offences so he is banned for life from owning guns etc. He has no chance of getting his license back but has applied to have the prohibition lifted. Which i have been told if successful he can then go to a club and shoot with a friends or club gun providing the club has the right paperwork as such. Can anybody enlighten me on this as i find it a bit odd. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 dont sound right..............if someone was imprisoned for firearm offences....he would be in danger of going straight back into prison if he wanted to persue that route...or even thinking about it but if he invokes the ECHR.................who knows !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 I really cannot see how you could debate it, unless you can overturn the original conviction. It is a lifetime ban, that is the only legal recourse, not "I've been good for a year" or even 50 years. What you are talking about is not the ownership. I think we all agree there. The issue being debated here is can he shoot on someone else's licence/club. This is section 11(6) of the Firearms Act. But, an organiser must "Ensure that people prohibited by Section 21 of the Firearms Act are not allowed access to guns" For your ease: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/21 21 (1) and (2) is very explicit. If it were more than 3 years, they would never be allowed to have a firearm or ammunition in their possession. I can only assume they have, due to lifetime ban you reference. There is no way around this without overturning the original conviction. Possession of firearms by persons previously convicted of crime. (1)A person who has been sentenced [F1to custody for life or] to preventive detention, or to imprisonment or to corrective training for a term of three years or more [F1or to youth custody [F2or detention in a young offender institution] for such a term], or who has been sentenced be detained for such a term in a young offenders institution in Scotland, shall not at any time have a firearm or ammunition in his possession. (2)A person who has been sentenced . . . F3 to imprisonment for a term of three months or more but less than three years [F4or to youth custody [F5or detention in a young offender institution] for such a term], or who has been sentenced to be detained for such a term in a detention centre or in a young offenders institution in Scotland [F6or who has been subject to a secure training order [F7or a detention and training order]], shall not at any time before the expiration of the period of five years from the date of his release have a firearm or ammunition in his possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy1950 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 My club has a form (Required by the Home Office) to be completed and returned to the club secretary at least a week before the visit of a guest or visitor with their name, address, DofB, and address (all address`s less than 5 years) name of sponsoring member and how known to the full member. Guest has to sign the form with the declaration that they are not prohibited under Section 21 of the firearms act. This form is then submitted to the local firearms dept for their scrutiny and CR checks after which they will inform the club secretary if the visit may go ahead! My guess is he has no chance of even getting onto a clubs premises, even if an appeal is under way as there would be no judgement at that time. FB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, samboy said: Hi gang. A chap i know was imprisoned for firearm offences so he is banned for life from owning guns etc. He has no chance of getting his license back but has applied to have the prohibition lifted. Which i have been told if successful he can then go to a club and shoot with a friends or club gun providing the club has the right paperwork as such. Can anybody enlighten me on this as i find it a bit odd. Thanks all. If I were you I would distance myself from this chap, if the police think their is even a small chance he may gain access to your firearms they will take your firearms, just like being associated with criminals or drug users, suppliers. Edited August 20 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 6 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: If I were you I would distance myself from this chap. Wise advice. You are aware, now, of the law so the police or the judiciary will not look favourably on your assistance to this individual to usurp that ban. Best heeded in any matter firearms related and be aware the prohibition include air weapons also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 11 hours ago, samboy said: A chap i know was imprisoned for firearm offences so he is banned for life from owning guns etc. He has no chance of getting his license back but has applied to have the prohibition lifted. Which i have been told if successful he can then go to a club and shoot with a friends or club gun providing the club has the right paperwork as such. Can anybody enlighten me on this as i find it a bit odd. That first sentence says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samboy Posted August 21 Author Report Share Posted August 21 Thanks for all advice. I will definitely keep away from him. I only know him he is not a friend. Better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 I wonder if banned for life - is actually banned for life - Or is it like imprisoned for life ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, jall25 said: I wonder if banned for life - is actually banned for life - Or is it like imprisoned for life ? Good question. With a 'life' ban the guy must have been sentenced to 3 years or more so quite a serious offence, but so is murder and they can be 'excused duties' after a relatively few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 Prohibited person can be lifted, know personally someone who has done it,difficult but yes possible cant see ni being that different from mainland uk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyshooter Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 A judge can lift this ban. I know of this via a pal. I did cost him multiples of tens of thousand of pounds ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 On 20/08/2024 at 13:45, Flyboy1950 said: My club has a form (Required by the Home Office) to be completed and returned to the club secretary at least a week before the visit of a guest or visitor with their name, address, DofB, and address (all address`s less than 5 years) name of sponsoring member and how known to the full member. Guest has to sign the form with the declaration that they are not prohibited under Section 21 of the firearms act. This form is then submitted to the local firearms dept for their scrutiny and CR checks after which they will inform the club secretary if the visit may go ahead! My guess is he has no chance of even getting onto a clubs premises, even if an appeal is under way as there would be no judgement at that time. FB Just picked up on this post. V interesting. I know of one clay club and one clay shoot (not sure if it’s a club) that I visit from time to time which do no such checks. When I say “Guest” I’m just charged the guest fee and I have never even been asked to show my SGC. In such circumstances a friend of a prohibited person could take them to those shoots without checks and bypass the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxphil Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 I've been shooting for over 40 years and the only time I've been asked for my sgc is when buying a gun or cartridges 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 On what grounds can a judge lift a ban? The law is specific and doesn't allow for discretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 only way i can see this getting a chance of getting lifted was if he needed access to firearms for his job like as a gamekeeper, or ranger for the forestry commission, and even then i can imagine its against the odds. most people who have had a bit of depression or a minor brush with the law way in the past have it create problems on application to of done time for actual firearms related offences and want access to do a bit recreational shooting for pleasure..... not a hope in hell sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 10 hours ago, Bobba said: Just picked up on this post. V interesting. I know of one clay club and one clay shoot (not sure if it’s a club) that I visit from time to time which do no such checks. When I say “Guest” I’m just charged the guest fee and I have never even been asked to show my SGC. In such circumstances a friend of a prohibited person could take them to those shoots without checks and bypass the system. The club referred to is a Home Office approved rifle, pistol type of club using section 1 FAC firearms. Clay clubs will still have to comply with section 21 but not the restrictions placed on Home Office section 1 clubs regarding guests to attend. Most clay clubs, grounds will operate with a section 11(6) exemption, which is issued by the Chief Constable annually so if found wanting regarding compliance with section 21 they could lose their section 11(6) exemption and then only SGC holders could shoot at the club, ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said: The club referred to is a Home Office approved rifle, pistol type of club using section 1 FAC firearms. Clay clubs will still have to comply with section 21 but not the restrictions placed on Home Office section 1 clubs regarding guests to attend. Most clay clubs, grounds will operate with a section 11(6) exemption, which is issued by the Chief Constable annually so if found wanting regarding compliance with section 21 they could lose their section 11(6) exemption and then only SGC holders could shoot at the club, ground. Very many thanks. Interesting for a SGC only holder. Edited August 22 by Bobba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 (edited) On 22/08/2024 at 13:53, Gordon R said: On what grounds can a judge lift a ban? The law is specific and doesn't allow for discretion. It doesn't go into the specifics, but this is the only case I can remember reading about - https://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/8980213.calne-drug-smuggler-can-apply-for-gun-licence/ Edited August 23 by PeterHenry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 The man in your link did not go to jail for FIREARMS OFFENCES, he was a drug dealer with an SGC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: The man in your link did not go to jail for FIREARMS OFFENCES, he was a drug dealer with an SGC. That's true - but as he went to gaol for over three years, he was prohibited. It's a post in response to Gordon R's question regarding the legal possibilities of prohibitions being lifted - in other words, only about a judges ability to do so. Not about the likelihood of it happening in the case this thread is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted August 24 Report Share Posted August 24 On 22/08/2024 at 09:06, Bobba said: Just picked up on this post. V interesting. I know of one clay club and one clay shoot (not sure if it’s a club) that I visit from time to time which do no such checks. When I say “Guest” I’m just charged the guest fee and I have never even been asked to show my SGC. In such circumstances a friend of a prohibited person could take them to those shoots without checks and bypass the system. I’m our club secretary and know of no such form. Our section 11 allows non certificate holders to shoot provided they are not prohibited. If we have any doubts about a person, they don’t shoot and I will contact the police with my concerns. This has happened in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEINVISIBLESCARECROW Posted August 28 Report Share Posted August 28 Walk away just walk away & keep walking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted August 28 Report Share Posted August 28 Clay grounds and ranges must operate under the section 21 rules. We also just held a have go clay shoot for charity at our local country show. We have to get an 11.6 every year and display a section 21 notice that by reading this notice and taking part you are declaring tht you are not prohibited from using firearms. (And explain why in the notice) HantsRob is spot on. Even with air rifles we have to get parents to sign a waiver stating that their child is not affected by the section 21 act which would prohibit them from using an air rifle at our Scouts section. That includes any adults who may want to have a go. It covers us if they lie and it is found out that were in fact prohibited. Air rifles are under the firearms umbrella when it comes to offences since the implementation of section 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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