Conor O'Gorman Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Shotgun and firearm certificates cannot currently be used as photo ID to vote in elections but the Electoral Commission has recommended that the government expand the list of accepted documents. https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/facs-should-count-as-photo-id-for-voters-149152/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Banks don't accept them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 No. Why would you. Hi here's my I D that's where i live and I've got guns there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 No, I don't think its a great idea to let too many people know you have guns in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spr1985 Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Just now, mellors said: No. Why would you. Hi here's my I D that's where i live and I've got guns there. Agree entirely! We have no clue who those people are that we show our id to, are they vetted, are they dbs checked? Are they vetted for known associates/family/friends. are they anti? Are they vegan? A big no from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Yes, they should. I personally wouldn’t use it myself for reasons that others have mentioned above but the choice should be with the individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Yes, but I would not use it myself as I have more 'ambiguous' alternatives now. However at one time SGC and FAC were the only photo IDs that I possessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 the less people know i have guns the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 I think and SGC should be accepted, but I wouldn't personally use it. Banks and building societies will not accept an SGC, but will happily accept a forged passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 My current card machine provider and aquirer accepted my SGC as ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boristhedog Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 The likelihood of a member of public knowing what the two certificates look like could raise issues. Would a computer generated official looking document be accepted? I know specimen documents could be available for voting centres but in all banks, post offices and building societies etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 Surely this is a backwards view on this? Surely we should be looking to scrap the paper copy, and have an e-wallet for what we own? A roadside stop by Police will NOT cease because I have a bit of paper. It is on PNC and that is the ONLY source of verification, as I could have paid for a duplicate licence for example. So, frankly, no it shouldn't be legal ID, and we shouldn't be relying on a very expensive bit of paper bought from central government. We could be streamlined by having an online system with an e-wallet or similar. The question is skewed, you are only asking a question you want an answer to, promoting BASC to say the voice of the shooter wants it to be legal ID. NO. The voice of the shooter should be saying stop wasting money and time printing paper. Now if you had a little bit of paper.... I don't know.... credit card sized? Maybe the size of a driving licence. With your photo on it. Current address. Could that be convenient to both shooter and then be proposed for ID?...... You could even carry it bound in killed animal flesh or synthetic, with other similar sized bits of plastic, in case your nationally recognised driving licence isn't recognised. I guess another question for this change is how many SGC and FAC holders don't currently have a DL that need such proof, that may not have a DL or a passport, or a utility bill (which I appreciate is harder in the modern world). But A4 or A5 paper? No. No no no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 A very valid post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 My only reservation about an electronic version is the procedure for buying and selling privately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 1 hour ago, HantsRob said: Surely this is a backwards view on this? Surely we should be looking to scrap the paper copy, and have an e-wallet for what we own? I think they are two separate things. Allowing the current paper copies to be used as ID seems sensible as some people don't have many forms of photo ID. I wouldn't mind an electronic SGC/FAC but there are plenty of people who wouldn't, some still still struggle with IT and the current online application is far from a great service so would worry how usable a electronic certificate would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted September 27 Author Report Share Posted September 27 Thanks all for the feedback thus far. As per the article linked from the OP, some BASC members have raised concerns about not being able to use their certs as voter ID. A Labour MP has raised this in parliament. The Electoral Commission has recommended that the government expand the list of accepted documents. Top of the list is likely to be Ministry of Defence-issued veteran cards. Whether veterans wish to use that ID will be their choice. Same would apply for shotgun and firearm certs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 1 hour ago, HantsRob said: Surely this is a backwards view on this? Surely we should be looking to scrap the paper copy, and have an e-wallet for what we own? A roadside stop by Police will NOT cease because I have a bit of paper. It is on PNC and that is the ONLY source of verification, as I could have paid for a duplicate licence for example. So, frankly, no it shouldn't be legal ID, and we shouldn't be relying on a very expensive bit of paper bought from central government. We could be streamlined by having an online system with an e-wallet or similar. The question is skewed, you are only asking a question you want an answer to, promoting BASC to say the voice of the shooter wants it to be legal ID. NO. The voice of the shooter should be saying stop wasting money and time printing paper. Now if you had a little bit of paper.... I don't know.... credit card sized? Maybe the size of a driving licence. With your photo on it. Current address. Could that be convenient to both shooter and then be proposed for ID?...... You could even carry it bound in killed animal flesh or synthetic, with other similar sized bits of plastic, in case your nationally recognised driving licence isn't recognised. I guess another question for this change is how many SGC and FAC holders don't currently have a DL that need such proof, that may not have a DL or a passport, or a utility bill (which I appreciate is harder in the modern world). But A4 or A5 paper? No. No no no. Ok I see you point however out shooting asked to produce your license and it’s blank no internet face to face transaction buying a new gun how would that work giving access to your electronic license to acquire or dispose of your firearm/shotgun I assume that as most electronic devices containing personal information they will be either encrypted or at the very least password protected that’s not to mention hackers getting into the system and doing who knows what the current license is adequate change costs money not really necessary to use as id for elections there’s alternatives that also work think Basc and the government have better things to do and spend time and money on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN749 Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 The Jobcentre accepted my fac,when I went to sign on a few years back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted September 27 Report Share Posted September 27 If you have either it is tied on you have a driving licence so why advertise the fact of where guns are stored? A bit of a daft question TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pushandpull Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 Easier to scrap the requirement for voter I.D. There is little evidence that it was needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno24 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 (edited) 13 hours ago, Old farrier said: Ok I see you point however out shooting asked to produce your license and it’s blank no internet face to face transaction buying a new gun how would that work giving access to your electronic license to acquire or dispose of your firearm/shotgun I assume that as most electronic devices containing personal information they will be either encrypted or at the very least password protected that’s not to mention hackers getting into the system and doing who knows what the current license is adequate change costs money not really necessary to use as id for elections there’s alternatives that also work think Basc and the government have better things to do and spend time and money on II Edited September 28 by Bruno24 Messed up and added lines to Old farriers post somehow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno24 Posted September 28 Report Share Posted September 28 I didn't vote in the general election as the only photo ID I have is my shotgun cert but I had it accepted as ID at a law firm recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted September 28 Author Report Share Posted September 28 The feedback from this forum and SD, and directly to BASC during elections since last year, is that some people sometimes only have a cert as photo ID (either because they are out and about on the day and popping into the polling station and that's what they had in the glove compartment etc, or literally have no other photo ID for whatever reason) and indeed some others would like to use their cert as a matter of principle. Poll clerks are trained on the various photo IDs that are acceptable and if certs were added to that list then they would be aware of their validity. Something that has not been mentioned on the forum but was in the article in the OP is that having shotgun and firearms certificates on the accepted photo ID list that is sent to every voter with their poll card ahead of every election helps normalise recreational shooting. In Italy, a firearms licence is sixth on the list of photo IDs for elections. https://www.comune.milano.it/en/web/elezioni-europee/come-si-vota/quali-documenti-servono-per-votare/documenti-di-identita-riconosciuti-al-seggio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HantsRob Posted September 29 Report Share Posted September 29 13 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: had in the glove compartment etc, or literally have no other photo ID for whatever reason) and indeed some others would like to use their cert as a matter of principle. I would suggest people shouldn't keep a document that could allow fraud to be kept in a glovebox The "no other photo ID" is valid for such a tiny proportion of the population Principle? Which principle, apart from they would like it? I don't see what principle would apply? On 27/09/2024 at 20:30, Old farrier said: out shooting asked to produce your license and it’s blank no internet face to face transaction buying a new gun how would that work giving access to your electronic license to acquire or dispose of your firearm/shotgun I assume that as most electronic devices containing personal information they will be either encrypted or at the very least password protected that’s not to mention hackers getting into the system and doing who knows what the current license is adequate change costs money not really necessary to use as id for elections there’s alternatives that also work think Basc and the government have better things to do and spend time and money on Who are you expecting to ask to inspect/produce your licence? The Police don't need it as it's on PNC. Non-RFD transfer would be problematic without internet access. But, I'd also say for £4 you can buy a replacement licence for a "lost" licence, so you have a potential issue with selling a gun to someone with a legit licence when their main one is seized. Having access to an online licence (and finding internet in a coffee shop or someones home or a safe place to transfer guns) is less of an issue than the current potential fraudulence licence. For the safety side, it would be end to end encrypted and would be secure. Hackers - valid, but no different to any website in the world. I do agree that change costs money, and it does work by and large. There are issues with the current system but it's relatively cheap. I think your final line sums it up nicely though, I think this is not a good use of time for BASC, as opposed to other more important topics. Final thought? Giving people a question means they can say yes or no. It doesn't mean it's something they want, need, or desire. The issue I have with this is not that the answer is what is the answer, but more was it the correct question to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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