Police Officer cleared of murdering Chris Kaba:

[Vince Green]

Just now, HantsRob said:

Pre-meditation could be a split second. It is not formed as part of law per-se.

 

From CPS:

 

Murder

Subject to three exceptions (which constitute partial defences to murder, and result in a conviction for manslaughter) the crime of murder is committed, where a person:

• of sound mind and discretion (sane)
• unlawfully kills (not self-defence or other justified killing)
• any reasonable creature (a human being)
• in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs)
• under the King's Peace (not in wartime)
• with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (in contrast to the offence of attempted murder, where only intent to kill will suffice)

Intent is an ordinary English word. It should not normally be elaborated on or paraphrased. It is different from motive and the prosecution does not have to prove motive, or that grievous bodily harm or death were the outcome wished for. For further consideration where intent might be an issue, see the Judicial College's Crown Court Compendium, Part 1, at 8-1.

The suspect's act must be a substantial cause of the death, not necessarily the sole or principal cause.

Self-defence is as much a defence to murder and manslaughter as to any other offence. Assessing whether there is a realistic prospect of conviction includes an objective assessment of the evidence including the likelihood of this defence being raised and of the prosecution disproving it to the criminal standard. Duress is not available as a defence to murder or attempted murder.

A count of murder on an indictment should refer to the date of death, not the date of the act that caused the death.

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-manslaughter-infanticide-and-causing-or-allowing-death-or-serious#a03

Yes but the onus is still on the prosecution to prove it.  If they go to trial but then present a deliberately weak case so they dont prove it then they are effectively handing him a not guilty verdict. And everyone can go home and forget about it.

The victim may have been a low life, I don't think that's in any doubt but the law has to be upheld. Was it a trial or was it a put up job?

Edited October 22 by Vince Green

[Westley]

Oh how fickle we can be............I remember being shot down in flames on here for even daring to defend this Officer, at the time of the incident. Now, apart from the usual critics, the Officer should have a medal.

Having been there and done it, although thankfully never having to use my gun in anger, I know what this Officer has been through in his 2 year suspension. On top of that he has been publicly named. I handed in my 'pink card' in the late 1980's, after an Officer was treated in this exact same way. So did quite a few other Police Officers. Since then, several Police Officers have died on duty by various means, compared to the number of Offenders who have been shot by armed Officers. If YOU or your family were to be put into a life threatening position, and I hope you never are, you would EXPECT the Police to come to your rescue and take whatever action was necessary to save YOUR life. Realistically, how many of you have actually come into contact with a Police Officer, either on the roads or even when you are out shooting. I would think very few, and if you did, I would suggest that you would be compliant with whatever, within reason, was asked of you. The follow on of course, would be to come on here and bitterly complain of your treatment by heavy handed Police Officers, who should have known who you were and that you were no threat to society, just pigeon shooting  🙄

I have been retired for 23 years and have NEVER come into contact with any Police Officers, apart from an incident at a shooting ground that did not concern me, but that I witnessed. Also for tackling a violent shoplifter in the local Supermarket. I would say that the majority of people on here have also had limited contact with the Police. My point being,  that unless you are involved in crime, or have witnessed such events, you will have no contact with the Police.  The same can NOT be said for those making the headlines as 'victims of Police brutality'. This has always been so, in fact at one time in the 90's, if ANYONE was arrested, they ALL complained.

[udderlyoffroad]

3 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said:

If police wanted him to stop there were ways besides shoot to kill,shoot tyres of car,many options

The most likely outcome there is an out of control car, still heading in the direction of your colleagues or bystanders. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us on one of these many options you allude to?

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Whatever the circumstances, he made a mistake and somebody died as a result

Can you explain for the slow-of-thinking such as myself, what mistake he made?

 

[Gordon R]

Westley - commonsense reply. 

TOPGUN749- I found your post bizarre and out of touch with reality. You cite "shoot tyres of car,many options". The idea of shooting a tyre, all four tyres etc would not stop the car. Really, the suggestion is juvenile and just plain silly. Would you care to list the other options available to the Policeman, whilst trying to save the lives of his colleagues. I trust the other options will have a basis in reality.

[Good shot?]

I too would like to see the 'many options'.

I have difficulty listing more than one.

[oowee]

Two tier Kier 🤣

[wymberley]

49 minutes ago, Westley said:

Oh how fickle we can be............I remember being shot down in flames on here for even daring to defend this Officer, at the time of the incident. Now, apart from the usual critics, the Officer should have a medal.

Having been there and done it, although thankfully never having to use my gun in anger, I know what this Officer has been through in his 2 year suspension. On top of that he has been publicly named. I handed in my 'pink card' in the late 1980's, after an Officer was treated in this exact same way. So did quite a few other Police Officers. Since then, several Police Officers have died on duty by various means, compared to the number of Offenders who have been shot by armed Officers. If YOU or your family were to be put into a life threatening position, and I hope you never are, you would EXPECT the Police to come to your rescue and take whatever action was necessary to save YOUR life. Realistically, how many of you have actually come into contact with a Police Officer, either on the roads or even when you are out shooting. I would think very few, and if you did, I would suggest that you would be compliant with whatever, within reason, was asked of you. The follow on of course, would be to come on here and bitterly complain of your treatment by heavy handed Police Officers, who should have known who you were and that you were no threat to society, just pigeon shooting  🙄

I have been retired for 23 years and have NEVER come into contact with any Police Officers, apart from an incident at a shooting ground that did not concern me, but that I witnessed. Also for tackling a violent shoplifter in the local Supermarket. I would say that the majority of people on here have also had limited contact with the Police. My point being,  that unless you are involved in crime, or have witnessed such events, you will have no contact with the Police.  The same can NOT be said for those making the headlines as 'victims of Police brutality'. This has always been so, in fact at one time in the 90's, if ANYONE was arrested, they ALL complained.

Too many contradictions here.

[Vince Green]

Just now, udderlyoffroad said:

 

Can you explain for the slow-of-thinking such as myself, what mistake he made?

 

He shot an unarmed man who had both his hands visible on the steering wheel

The car was completely boxed in and wasn't going anywhere 

Like I said before you can't just say "Ooops sorry "

It doesn't matter whether the man he shot was a drug dealer scumbag or the Archbishop of Canterbury. 

The law must be the same for everyone. Everyone must be equally protected by the law, even if they don't deserve it and the world is better off without them.

Edited October 22 by Vince Green

[Dave-G]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

He shot an unarmed man who had both his hands visible on the steering wheel

The car was completely boxed in and wasn't going anywhere 

Like I said before you can't just say "Ooops sorry "

Difficult to establish beyond doubt he'd kept both hands on the steering wheel from the front of the car? The head is the largest part of the body visible from the front. Officers didn't have time to pause videos to clarify that at the time.

It looked to me like the Audi could force its way past the partial obstructions of the police cars - given the driver had shown willingness to damage the car he was trying to use as a weapon to smash open an escape route.

 

[clangerman]

no partial about it the evidence clearly shows with two cars side by side behind two the same in front and a third across the rd behind them with no room for run long enough to move them he was going nowhere but in handcuffs until shot 

[Vince Green]

Just now, Dave-G said:

 

It looked to me like the Audi could force its way past the partial obstructions of the police cars - given the driver had shown willingness to damage the car he was trying to use as a weapon to smash open an escape route.

 

Even, hypothetically, if he was able to ram his way out and escape that doesn't constitute an immediate threat to life, which is the only reason an officer is allowed to shoot someone  in this country to prevent happening.

This is not America where people do get shot simply for trying to escape.  The rules are very tight and very precise and were not followed on this occasion.

[Dave-G]

6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Even, hypothetically, if he was able to ram his way out and escape that doesn't constitute an immediate threat to life, which is the only reason an officer is allowed to shoot someone  in this country to prevent happening.

This is not America where people do get shot simply for trying to escape.  The rules are very tight and very precise and were not followed on this occasion.

Even if its likely the suspect was armed and trying to avoid being disarmed?

[Gordon R]

I have seen a large number of cars boxed in on Police TV programmes and many do actually force their way out.

Edited October 22 by Gordon R

[yickdaz]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Oh how fickle we can be............I remember being shot down in flames on here for even daring to defend this Officer, at the time of the incident. Now, apart from the usual critics, the Officer should have a medal.

Having been there and done it, although thankfully never having to use my gun in anger, I know what this Officer has been through in his 2 year suspension. On top of that he has been publicly named. I handed in my 'pink card' in the late 1980's, after an Officer was treated in this exact same way. So did quite a few other Police Officers. Since then, several Police Officers have died on duty by various means, compared to the number of Offenders who have been shot by armed Officers. If YOU or your family were to be put into a life threatening position, and I hope you never are, you would EXPECT the Police to come to your rescue and take whatever action was necessary to save YOUR life. Realistically, how many of you have actually come into contact with a Police Officer, either on the roads or even when you are out shooting. I would think very few, and if you did, I would suggest that you would be compliant with whatever, within reason, was asked of you. The follow on of course, would be to come on here and bitterly complain of your treatment by heavy handed Police Officers, who should have known who you were and that you were no threat to society, just pigeon shooting  🙄

I have been retired for 23 years and have NEVER come into contact with any Police Officers, apart from an incident at a shooting ground that did not concern me, but that I witnessed. Also for tackling a violent shoplifter in the local Supermarket. I would say that the majority of people on here have also had limited contact with the Police. My point being,  that unless you are involved in crime, or have witnessed such events, you will have no contact with the Police.  The same can NOT be said for those making the headlines as 'victims of Police brutality'. This has always been so, in fact at one time in the 90's, if ANYONE was arrested, they ALL complained.

I've been approached by officers not armed i will say while pigeon shooting and I have no complaints they were absolutely fine and told to carry on at the end of it. But if they treated me like a criminal I wouldn't of liked it nobody out shooting would be happy with mistreatment 

[JohnfromUK]

Now the case is over, more comes to light.  It is reported today;

"Gangsters put a £10,000 bounty on the head of a police marksman after he shot dead Chris Kaba, it can be revealed today. Martyn Blake is having to live in hiding, fearing for his life and his family after a £10,000 reward was offered to anyone prepared to offer information on his whereabouts in order to kill him in revenge for the death of Mr Kaba. Now it can be revealed that Mr Kaba was one of London 's most feared gangsters with a shocking history of violence. Yesterday Sergeant Blake was dramatically cleared of murder after shooting the 24-year-old fleeing motorist to prevent him running over other officers. But the full circumstances behind the case could not be revealed after Mr Justice Goss imposed reporting restrictions on the trial. The fatal shooting on September 5, 2022 happened after armed police started tailing the vehicle that Mr Kaba was driving because the Audi Q8 had been used as a getaway car in a gang-related shooting the night before in Brixton , South London."

Source : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13986529/Chris-Kaba-gangster-verdict-Martyn-Blake.html

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

He shot an unarmed man who had both his hands visible on the steering wheel

The car was completely boxed in and wasn't going anywhere 

Like I said before you can't just say "Ooops sorry "

It doesn't matter whether the man he shot was a drug dealer scumbag or the Archbishop of Canterbury. 

The law must be the same for everyone. Everyone must be equally protected by the law, even if they don't deserve it and the world is better off without them.

NOt seen any video footage; was vehicle car statitionary or playing bumper cars?

[ordnance]

The police and CPS bring charges all the time and then defends found not guilty, it should be no different for the police he was charged it went to court and a jury found him not guilty.

[Vince Green]

Just now, Dave-G said:

Even if its likely the suspect was armed and trying to avoid being disarmed?

But he wasn't was he?

What if?  or Maybe? doesn't come into into it.

It's a tough job for the police because it's not fair, but when they strap on that gun they strap on all the responsibilities and the personal risk to their career as well.

If a doctor gives the wrong drugs or an electrician wires up a job wrongly and someone dies they are professionally responsible and liable in just the same way

Edited October 22 by Vince Green

[owain]

Funny what comes out after the verdict. 
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/chris-kaba-was-core-member-of-gang-and-gunman-in-nightclub-shooting-days-before-he-was-killed-by-police-13234555

[clangerman]

no amount of mud will change the FACT that until shot he was going nowhere! 

[ordnance]

8 minutes ago, owain said:

Funny what comes out after the verdict. 
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/chris-kaba-was-core-member-of-gang-and-gunman-in-nightclub-shooting-days-before-he-was-killed-by-police-13234555

Was he armed when he was shot 

[Flashman]

10 minutes ago, clangerman said:

no amount of mud will change the FACT that until shot he was going nowhere! 

Incorrect. 

He was attempting to drive away, likely to strike an officer whilst making that attempt. 

As others have said, the world’s lost a potential future Nobel prize winner. 

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Incorrect. 

He was attempting to drive away, likely to strike an officer whilst making that attempt. 

As others have said, the world’s lost a potential future Nobel prize winner. 

you clearly know nothing about moving static vehicles or the momentum required to move them! 

[owain]

12 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Was he armed when he was shot 

The term “armed” doesn’t have to relate to firearms. Armed robbery can include a whole manner of weapons. So in this case, as he was using a motor vehicle as a weapon against police. Then yes, I would say he was most definitely armed. 

[Rewulf]

Not sure why there are some lamenting the death of this scumbag ?
Or why some refer to it as murder or manslaughter ?
Its a clear case of self defence when deadly harm was possible and intended, end of.

Mr Kaba lived by the sword and died by the sword, and theres no point crying about it, the world is a better place without him.