Penelope Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 1 hour ago, clangerman said: no amount of mud will change the FACT that until shot he was going nowhere! Vermin control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 3 hours ago, wymberley said: Too many contradictions here. I agree entirely....there ARE too many contradictions here 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 1 hour ago, clangerman said: you clearly know nothing about moving static vehicles or the momentum required to move them! Yet the jury disagreed with you. Still, you know best… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 5 hours ago, HantsRob said: You also cannot stop someone from a lawful and peaceful protest/march. I don't disagree with sentiments that it may cause issues, but it is their legal right. Sadly I would defend their right, as much as I'd support a march on countryside shooting. We cannot pick and choose what goes with our own personal moral decisions. Normally I would agree, but marches have been stopped before, this won't be a peaceful protest, it will be rent a mob banging the BLM drum, you can guarantee there will be trouble, looting, cars burned, and probably nobody arrested for it. 4 hours ago, Westley said: Realistically, how many of you have actually come into contact with a Police Officer, either on the roads or even when you are out shooting I expected been stopped regularly in the past and breathalysed because of where I was and the time, got to the point I was just waved on. Stopped when out shooting, my old Orion was clearly out of place in a nice area of Cheshire, they had a quick look in the boot, dead rabbits and bsgged rifles which they didn't even look at and on you go. No issues because I wasn't breaking the law, didn't try to race away and didn't start shouting at the police in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 1 hour ago, owain said: The term “armed” doesn’t have to relate to firearms. Armed robbery can include a whole manner of weapons. So in this case, as he was using a motor vehicle as a weapon against police. Then yes, I would say he was most definitely armed. So all drivers in the UK are seen as armed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owain Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ordnance said: So all drivers in the UK are seen as armed No, in the same way as a person using a knife to chop carrots is not armed. Until the object is used as a weapon, it is just a tool intended for purpose. Edited October 22 by owain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 6 minutes ago, ordnance said: So all drivers in the UK are seen as armed Lets do a theoretical scenario. Im sat in a car and repeatedly trying to run you over, you just happen to have a loaded firearm in your hands. Would you be justified in defending yourself against serious injury or death by using said firearm ? Its not as clear cut if youre a civilian, and you dont know who I am or why Im trying to run you over. But when you are an armed police officer, and you know this car has been used in firearms offences, and the driver may well have a firearm too, what would YOU do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 7 minutes ago, ordnance said: So all drivers in the UK are seen as armed A great many 'everyday objects' can be used as a weapon - and so are potentially a weapon. The very obvious ones being things like kitchen knives, but in effect almost anything that can be used to inflict injury is potentially a weapon. The vehicle in this case had been used as a getaway car in a shooting the previous day. The guy shot was a known armed criminal with a history of violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 Quote you clearly know nothing about moving static vehicles or the momentum required to move them! It is clear that you do not know what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 3 hours ago, clangerman said: you clearly know nothing about moving static vehicles or the momentum required to move them! A good shove from almost any vehicle will move another car sideways without any run up or momentum, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 9 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said: Suspect the jury was swayed,or scared of what might happen to them.,If police wanted him to stop there were ways besides shoot to kill,shoot tyres of car,many options but chose to kill Stop watching hollywood movies, that's not how real life works. The bloke was trying to barge his way out of a block by police cars, the officer only has to have a firm belief that the life of his collegues or himself were in danger to justify shooting. looking at the videos released the suspect was trying his best to smash his way out, there were officers all round in danger of being squashed or run over by the suspects actions, i think the officer in the micro second he had to asess the situation believed lives were in danger and used lethel force to prevent death or injury. I have never been a policeman, but i served in the Army, and did many checkpoints,as a brick commander i once had someone drive at speed at a checkpoint and one of my team, i had cocked my SLR along with my 2ic and was about to pull the trigger when the vehicle stopped, a millienth of a second later and he would have been dead, he turned out to be a drunk squaddie who thought it would be fun, he was carefully taken out of the vehicle and put in jail. Please don't judge any firearms officer who has to make mindblowing quick decisions which may result in the death of someone or one of his collegues unless you have been in that situation. And 12 good men and women after seeing and hearing all the information decided that his actions were justified, he is innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 (edited) 5 hours ago, Vince Green said: He shot an unarmed man who had both his hands visible on the steering wheel The car was completely boxed in and wasn't going anywhere Like I said before you can't just say "Ooops sorry " It doesn't matter whether the man he shot was a drug dealer scumbag or the Archbishop of Canterbury. The law must be the same for everyone. Everyone must be equally protected by the law, even if they don't deserve it and the world is better off without them. The car was not boxed in and his attempts to escape in a high performance Audi were significant and continuing i.e. he was going to keep going until out of the police box - you tube is full of videos of cars smashing their way out of being boxed in. Unarmed but in control of a car being used in a potentially lethal fashion, lest we forget he could have put the hand brake on and his hands up and lived. We now know that the aspiring young rapper was the prime suspect in a shooting 6 days before (for which he was on video and would have been charged if not dead), was 100% gang affiliated and had a record as long as your arm and which concerned firearms. All of this was known to the police at the time who would have acted accordingly. I am happy for the police to shoot anyone who tries to run them over and ram their way out of being arrested. Are we saying that the police should not risk intervening where someone is ramming their vehicle out of being stopped in the same way the police were once told not to follow robbers on mopeds in case they got knocked off and not to pursue speeding motorists in case of injury to pedestrians. What a strange world we live in. EDIT There's loads of clips about vehicles escaping police boxes; here's a good one because the vehicle was even severely damaged and had damaged wheels / tyres: https://fb.watch/vnz1epRSmz/ There's loads and loads of examples. And here's the Kaba clip itself: https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2024/oct/21/police-footage-shows-moment-chris-kaba-was-shot-by-officer-now-acquitted-of-video The police should have gone with poetry, performative art and herbal tea. Edited October 22 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jega Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 The truth will out .................. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyly5122yeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 I am surprised that nobody has suggested that the keys should have been shot out of the ignition.......yet ! 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 (edited) Quote The police should have gone with poetry, performative art and herbal tea. At first glance this would appear to be ineffective, but other than shooting the tyres, it's the only alternative suggestion. I am still awaiting TOPGUN749's other options. As I typed Westley came up with shooting out the ignition, which ranks with the tyres. 🙂 Edited October 22 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 7 minutes ago, Westley said: I am surprised that nobody has suggested that the keys should have been shot out of the ignition.......yet ! 🙄 4 minutes ago, Gordon R said: At first glance this would appear to be ineffective, but other than shooting the tyres, it's the only alternative suggestion. I am still awaiting TOPGUN749's other options. As I typed Westley came up with shooting out the ignition, which ranks with the tyres. 🙂 If the police were were trained in mime they could have convinced the suspect he was in a glass box and there was no way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 One less gangster to use a gun on our streets and potentially miss his intended target and the bullet goes on to kill an innocent bystander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 7 minutes ago, old'un said: One less gangster to use a gun on our streets and potentially miss his intended target and the bullet goes on to kill an innocent bystander. Aye, his past is now being revealed. Total **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 We’re in danger of following the Yanks - BLM, defunding the rozzers, mad public prosecutors looking to enter politics down the track (oh, we’ve done that already)… What amazes me is that there’s a section of society who think the police are wrong here. I expect it from the drill gang relatives and inner London (Labour) MPs who see a band wagon on which to jump. But the others should consider what life in London - and other grim cities - is like at the moment. Lots of crime at all levels, no community policing and large groups of unemployed milling about at all hours. We used to joke that New York, Marseilles, Bombay, etc were dangerous cities, but London’s up there now. Makes you proud to be British… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 His family have been quiet today 🤔 Police did nothing wrong here. Although the policeman would have been on full pay during his suspension I also believe he should be compensated for the mental anguish he has no doubt suffered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 I think he deserves a medal he has saved more lives by his actions glad kabas family are quiet today after the revelations coming out about him maybe instead of causing rasist trouble they should admit to what he was and try to build a better bridge between the police and the black community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 8 minutes ago, shaun4860 said: His family have been quiet today 🤔 Police did nothing wrong here. Although the policeman would have been on full pay during his suspension I also believe he should be compensated for the mental anguish he has no doubt suffered Would you apply that to all people that were charged by the police and CPS and were found not guilty by a jury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 Trying to be rational here, his past whilst giving him the ability/intention has nothing to do with the action of the police officer at the time? I haven't studied the evidence so won't comment other than propose that when found not guilty of any offence the matter is closed. Any IPPC should be open and closed inside 30 minutes? If the reports of a price being on the officer are correct, every resource should be thrown at getting the perpetrators into court? Not faffing about while they scoot off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 1 minute ago, old man said: Trying to be rational here, his past whilst giving him the ability/intention has nothing to do with the action of the police officer at the time? I doubt that is the case. The police (and therefore I presume those involved) knew the car had been used in an armed crime the previous day. The car was on a watch database for ANPR. It would have meant there was a 'high risk of firearms' being present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 22 Report Share Posted October 22 Is now a good time to talk about stop and search? 😆 Anyone want to have a guess at the percentage of the population who are black males and then have a guess at the percentage of black males who are convicted of knife and gun crime out of the totality of all knife and gun crime? But no, we should target the group who are the statistically highly probable 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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