Ukraine, Russia, UK and Europe?

[Bigbob]

43 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

There was story of a chap NOT being deported because his son only liked the taste of British Chicken nuggets.

Heres a boxful no s*d  *ff

[Newbie to this]

And the one who couldn't be deported, because, as a paedophile, he would be treated badly in his own country......

Says a lot about the UK

3 hours ago, Penelope said:

You forgot the chap that was fiddling with a young family member, he was allowed to stay, too. A right to a family life, I believe, the very one he was fiddling.

Go figure???

 

Edited Tuesday at 15:50 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The whole point of Nato has been to act as a deterrent.  Mainly to Russia who has always been a threat, evidenced by their actions over the years in many conflicts

Its a well known fact that Churchill was very enthusiastic about using the allied forces (including Germans) to invade Russia as soon as WW2 ended.
Russia knew this too via spies, and communist sympathisers within the allied command, their former ally was NOT their friend.
NATO was formed in 1949 to counter the soviet threat, but if Russia had been serious about invading Europe, it could likely have done so in 1945 and been successful.
As NATO expanded, and the nuclear arms race gathered pace, the Korean war saw Russia take a back seat, even stopping some arms deliveries to NK, if they had gotten directly involved, the overstretched NATO forces could easily have been destroyed (they nearly were anyway)

In 1954 the USSR formally asked to join NATO, citing that it would aid in a more peaceful world, after all the devastation and loss of life.
They were rejected.
In 1955 W. Germany joined, Russias recent enemies were once again poised on their border with NATO behind them.
They formed the Warsaw pact to defend against the very real threat posed to them.

So to say that Russia has ALWAYS been a threat, is not a fair assessment of the cold war years.
What happened after 1955 was the two spheres spent trillions of taxpayer money on deterrence of a war that never happened, and could have been avoided totally, if politicians had talked and found common ground.

The cold war made billionaires out of greedy arms manufacturing corporations, and they are always hungry for more.
They have the money and influence to create wars/conflicts, and will not hesitate to do so.
Dont forget, WE pay for it, in cash and blood, and its time we stopped.

[steve1066]

5 hours ago, Vince Green said:

That's like asking what's the point in having a burglar alarm and Chubb locks on your house.

The whole point of Nato has been to act as a deterrent.  Mainly to Russia who has always been a threat, evidenced by their actions over the years in many conflicts

I would have to disagree Vince, the yanks have been more of a threat to world peace over the years than Russia.

My grandad told me back in the 70s that the yanks were war mongers, it’s all down to how much money can be made from Arms.

[Penelope]

17 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

And the one who couldn't be deported, because, as a paedophile, he would be treated badly in his own country......

Says a lot about the UK

 

Well it could be argued that, in that case, the UK should become the refuge of all nonces who may be treated badly in their own countries. It's the logical conclusion.

It could also be argued that that is already the case!!

[Penelope]

17 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Its a well known fact that Churchill was very enthusiastic about using the allied forces (including Germans) to invade Russia as soon as WW2 ended.
Russia knew this too via spies, and communist sympathisers within the allied command, their former ally was NOT their friend.
NATO was formed in 1949 to counter the soviet threat, but if Russia had been serious about invading Europe, it could likely have done so in 1945 and been successful.
As NATO expanded, and the nuclear arms race gathered pace, the Korean war saw Russia take a back seat, even stopping some arms deliveries to NK, if they had gotten directly involved, the overstretched NATO forces could easily have been destroyed (they nearly were anyway)

In 1954 the USSR formally asked to join NATO, citing that it would aid in a more peaceful world, after all the devastation and loss of life.
They were rejected.
In 1955 W. Germany joined, Russias recent enemies were once again poised on their border with NATO behind them.
They formed the Warsaw pact to defend against the very real threat posed to them.

So to say that Russia has ALWAYS been a threat, is not a fair assessment of the cold war years.
What happened after 1955 was the two spheres spent trillions of taxpayer money on deterrence of a war that never happened, and could have been avoided totally, if politicians had talked and found common ground.

The cold war made billionaires out of greedy arms manufacturing corporations, and they are always hungry for more.
They have the money and influence to create wars/conflicts, and will not hesitate to do so.
Dont forget, WE pay for it, in cash and blood, and its time we stopped.

👍

[steve1066]

18 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Its a well known fact that Churchill was very enthusiastic about using the allied forces (including Germans) to invade Russia as soon as WW2 ended.
Russia knew this too via spies, and communist sympathisers within the allied command, their former ally was NOT their friend.
NATO was formed in 1949 to counter the soviet threat, but if Russia had been serious about invading Europe, it could likely have done so in 1945 and been successful.
As NATO expanded, and the nuclear arms race gathered pace, the Korean war saw Russia take a back seat, even stopping some arms deliveries to NK, if they had gotten directly involved, the overstretched NATO forces could easily have been destroyed (they nearly were anyway)

In 1954 the USSR formally asked to join NATO, citing that it would aid in a more peaceful world, after all the devastation and loss of life.
They were rejected.
In 1955 W. Germany joined, Russias recent enemies were once again poised on their border with NATO behind them.
They formed the Warsaw pact to defend against the very real threat posed to them.

So to say that Russia has ALWAYS been a threat, is not a fair assessment of the cold war years.
What happened after 1955 was the two spheres spent trillions of taxpayer money on deterrence of a war that never happened, and could have been avoided totally, if politicians had talked and found common ground.

The cold war made billionaires out of greedy arms manufacturing corporations, and they are always hungry for more.
They have the money and influence to create wars/conflicts, and will not hesitate to do so.
Dont forget, WE pay for it, in cash and blood, and its time we stopped.

I seem to recall General Marshall  calling for the same, I think he was quoted as saying “we have knocked the Pooh out of the Germans now let’s continue and do the same to the Russians”

I am sure it was called the Marshall Plan?

[Agriv8]

Just twisting this a bit *** can someone ask sir kier to wind his neck in.

why set a course to upset the two biggest nut jobs in the whole world.

Ukraine is a mess but we are knackered and not in Europe anymore. 
 

let’s get our own house in order before sorting anyone else’s!

focus on sorting Rachel in accounts and not winding up trump and putin !

Agriv8

Edited yesterday at 07:22 by Agriv8

[old man]

17 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

Just twisting this a bit *** can someone ask sir kier to wind his neck in.

why set a course to upset the two biggest nut jobs in the whole world.

Ukraine is a mess but we are knackered and not in Europe anymore. 
 

let’s get our own house in order before sorting anyone else’s!

focus on sorting Rachel in accounts and not winding up trump and putin !

Agriv8

You are crying in the wind?

He is just another below par mp who thinks he has some status that matches his free power dressing glasses. No doubt told what to say and do by others. He doesn't give a rats rear about the consequences of his idiocy, just likes the sound of his own voice and a headline picture for his family album?

 

[holloway]

Thoughts on Trumps attack on Mr zelensky calling him a dictator justified or complete fantasy and what about Ukraine    should never have started the war i am lost completely whats the truth we know that they cant have elections at the moment.

I think that Mr Putin is laughing his socks of and Trump well i just dont know about Trump .

[Newbie to this]

If there is any truth in the claim that around half of the money given to Ukraine is unaccounted for, and has disappeared. Then all support should cease immediately.

We were warned that Ukraine is corrupt.

Maybe this is why our politicians are so willing to donate our hard earned, maybe some is finding it's way back into their personal coffers...............

Edited yesterday at 08:39 by Newbie to this

[Vince Green]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

If there is any truth in the claim that around half of the money given to Ukraine is unaccounted for, and has disappeared. Then all support should cease immediately.

We were warned that Ukraine is corrupt.

Maybe this is why our politicians are so willing to donate our hard earned, maybe some is finding it's way back into their personal coffers...............

I don't think Ukraine has been given any cash at all. What good would that do? What Ukraine has been given has been hardware, missiles, tanks and planes.

Trump is doing what he always does, alleging corruption like he has so often in the past.  He did it with the election, he did it with Biden's son, he did it with Hillary Clinton,  he did it with Panama. 

He knows some of it will stick and you can never prove otherwise

[old man]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

If there is any truth in the claim that around half of the money given to Ukraine is unaccounted for, and has disappeared. Then all support should cease immediately.

We were warned that Ukraine is corrupt.

Maybe this is why our politicians are so willing to donate our hard earned, maybe some is finding it's way back into their personal coffers...............

"How very dare you?" 😃😃

[NoBodyImportant]

On 17/02/2025 at 13:49, Houseplant said:

I'm not questioning the value of NATO historically, just presently. If Trump thinks America isn't getting a good deal on an agreement, he'll tear it up. 

As an American tax payer, we are not against NATO, we are tired of being NATO.  We fund NATO to kept world peace. But every time there is a conflict, famine, peace keeping mission America has to fund it.  So as a tax payer I don’t see the need to fund Nato if we are going to pick up the bill and send troops to every conflict.   The USAs military budget was 960 billion last year, that equals the next 8 countries combined.  There is no point in spending that much

[NoBodyImportant]

Not to sound like I hate the rest of the world but I paid over $45,000 USD in taxes last year.  I think Europe should pitch in a little for the defense of Europe. We are struggling over here. 

Edited yesterday at 10:33 by NoBodyImportant

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, holloway said:

Thoughts on Trumps attack on Mr zelensky calling him a dictator justified or complete fantasy and what about Ukraine    should never have started the war i am lost completely whats the truth we know that they cant have elections at the moment.

I think that Mr Putin is laughing his socks of and Trump well i just dont know about Trump .

Trump is Putin's poodle. Putin holds so much dirt on Trump that Trump will never openly go against him.

Trump on the other hand appears to have finally lost any self control he might once have had. He is a sociopath.

[Rim Fire]

The trouble with Trump is he runs off at the mouth before putting his brain into gear 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

I don't think Ukraine has been given any cash at all. What good would that do? What Ukraine has been given has been hardware, missiles, tanks and planes.

Trump is doing what he always does, alleging corruption like he has so often in the past.  He did it with the election, he did it with Biden's son, he did it with Hillary Clinton,  he did it with Panama. 

He knows some of it will stick and you can never prove otherwise

This.

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

As an American tax payer, we are not against NATO, we are tired of being NATO.  We fund NATO to kept world peace. But every time there is a conflict, famine, peace keeping mission America has to fund it.  So as a tax payer I don’t see the need to fund Nato if we are going to pick up the bill and send troops to every conflict.   The USAs military budget was 960 billion last year, that equals the next 8 countries combined.  There is no point in spending that much

And in 2023 US arms sales equated to $238B, you have long been the world’s biggest war mongers and selective keepers of peace at the same time. Your economy depends on war and destruction, last year there were more than 16,000 foreign military sales transactions out of the US.

Edited yesterday at 11:55 by Raja Clavata
B not M

[NoBodyImportant]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This.

Wrong, the US is paying Ukrainian pensions, salaries for government and private workers, we are also subsidizing small businesses, and  farms. Last I heard is was just over 50 billion in non military aid

[Raja Clavata]

3 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Wrong, the US is paying Ukrainian pensions, salaries for government and private workers, we are also subsidizing small businesses, and  farms. Last I heard is was just over 50 billion in non military aid

You need to do some fact checking pal.

[NoBodyImportant]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You need to do some fact checking pal.

The very first article when you google it is from 2023 and it was already up to 25billion in non military aid.  Apparently I’m keeping a lady’s knitting company afloat also per the article.   https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

You need to do some fact checking pal.

How do you think Ukraines shattered economy is paying wages, pensions, benefits, the day to day running of a country ?
It isnt, the west is.
Thats a fact.

[holloway]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Wrong, the US is paying Ukrainian pensions, salaries for government and private workers, we are also subsidizing small businesses, and  farms. Last I heard is was just over 50 billion in non military aid

I imagine if you are paying it so is Europe and the UK although i cant say for sure ,is money all its  about though ?

[ShootingEgg]

White House national security adviser Mike Waltz says Ukraine needs to "tone down" its criticism of the US and sign a minerals deal being pushed by President Trump

 

Unsure if this has been shared but we all know why Trump is pushing the talks...  He will want to buy Ukraine next if they won't let him dig it up...