Legality of random stops

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Much like our gun rights, drip drip drip ... it’s been proven that fun crime didn’t reduce when they banned legally owned Pistols... but we will never ever get them back... once gone they’re gone forever. 

 

Let’s see what happens when this lockdown is over. 
 

As in any job, practices will become routine and normalised. Let’s hope we don’t have Police stopping whenever whenever once this is all over. 
 

Police stopping and questioning people when they have reasonable suspicion that a crime may be committed will obviously always be supported. 

They can't carry on using Corona law if parliament abolishes the act, as it's on a time limit and needs reviewing regularly.

I think most cops are doing their best to balance freedoms, whilst investigating and preventing crime, within the law.

It's not an easy task, you can't please everyone.

[Fuddster]

I believe there is a very simple rule applies to stopping cars that are 'worth' stopping.

If it looks suspect-stop it.

first 30 seconds would steer which way the stop is going to go.

either explore further or send them on their way.

alternatively, park up, sit playing on your phone, don't get into arguments with 'you can't stop me 'cos I done nothing wrong' and as a bonus ,get paid the same wage-and you get to finish your shift on time.

telepathy and crystal balls are not standard police issue kit.

f. 

 

 

[vampire]

9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

What is the legality of these so called random stops. With Police officers stopping whoever takes their fancy and asking them what they’re doing and where they’re going? 
 

I get we need to support the Government with Covid etc but to me that prospect stinks. Like living in a Police state. 
 

I also worry that these practices start now and the Police et al get used to it and it carries on when this is all over. 
 

Very dodgy ground imo. 

A friend was in the force,motor cop.

They call it snooker,just don't own a red car 😂😂

[Lloyd90]

14 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

They can't carry on using Corona law if parliament abolishes the act, as it's on a time limit and needs reviewing regularly.

I think most cops are doing their best to balance freedoms, whilst investigating and preventing crime, within the law.

It's not an easy task, you can't please everyone.

 

 

I totally agree with that. Some have gone mad and other cops are cringeing about it.

I was out last week doing a warrant with 3 officers who could not have been more helpful, very professional and they said (thankfully) that the vast majority of officers in our area are not trying to be silly with the powers, they are not trying to be overly restrictive and they know that they are just there to advise people, not "clamp down" on everyone they see out and about. 

They appeard to cringe at some of the other forces reactions to recent events. 

[12gauge82]

29 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

I totally agree with that. Some have gone mad and other cops are cringeing about it.

I was out last week doing a warrant with 3 officers who could not have been more helpful, very professional and they said (thankfully) that the vast majority of officers in our area are not trying to be silly with the powers, they are not trying to be overly restrictive and they know that they are just there to advise people, not "clamp down" on everyone they see out and about. 

They appeard to cringe at some of the other forces reactions to recent events. 

Also very true, some forces have overstepped the legislation, I believe they were heavily criticized by parliament.

[Vince Green]

There is the principal of effort v benefit. The police are not going to stop you unless they feel its likely to be worth the effort involved.

[Walker570]

10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

And there’s nothing stopping you from refusing to answer their questions. 

You not answering their questions is also not grounds for arrest or search. 
 

Im pretty sure they need a reason to pull you over and ask to check your documents ... 

We had more important things to do in my day but if we had any doubts about a driven vehicle it was a simple job of stopping it and making a decision having spoken with the driver and issued an HORT1 for production of documents, it often occured when there was a small thing worng with the vehicle ...brake light or whatver and we could also issue a ticket for the driver to get that repaired and report to a police station in a set time with the problem repaired.  I have watched the performance of the police on the various news media recently and have not been impressed.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Walker570

[lancer425]

These random stops, do not seem to be catching many Catalytic converter thieves. Mate had his nicked a few weeks ago, put another on his sprinter, they were back last Thursday night took  his new one.   He rang me today he just sold the van this morning to another joiner, he is just Working with estate car now Just can not keep up with the expense.   

[JTaylor91]

In my late teens/early 20s I would say I was stopped at least every other month to check the car I was driving wasn’t stolen. (I was young and the car was one of the most stolen in the area). It didn’t bother me, it was a simple asking my name that never took longer than a couple of minutes. I’m a little older now at 29 but the last time I was stopped was around 6 months ago again for the same reason. (I still have a car that thieves like). Never asked to search the car or even had a look inside. I know the police are stretched and they do have some shortfalls in areas but all of my dealings with them have been fine. 

[chip000]

On 18/05/2020 at 11:54, Lloyd90 said:

And there’s nothing stopping you from refusing to answer their questions. 

You not answering their questions is also not grounds for arrest or search. 
 

Im pretty sure they need a reason to pull you over and ask to check your documents ... 

Not if you’re driving a motor vehicle on a road. Road Traffic Act. 

[chip000]

On 18/05/2020 at 14:25, Lloyd90 said:

They can request to see your driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance certificate. 
 

You don’t have to produce them on the spot and can produce them within 7 days at any Police station. 
 

They don’t have the right to search you, your property or ask you any number of questions about what your doing or where your going. 
 

 

Using the law of being able to stop and check your driving legally, to question you without cause, just sounds like an abuse of power to me. If I have flagged up as not having insurance on the ANPR then fair enough 🤷‍♂️... 

There are all sorts of Police powers for all sorts of things. Stopping a motor vehicle on a road, stop and search, searching with a warrant, searching at or after arrest, covert surveillance, intrusive surveillance etc etc. They have varying degrees of authority from a constable to varying senior officers to magistrates, Judges, Surveillance Commissioners and the Home Secretary, with appropriate checks and balances. If you’re going to rant about them all then at least be specific. I’m guessing you’d like the police to utilise the appropriate powers when you or your loved ones are victims? As for asking a question, anyone can ask anything. 
 

[Lloyd90]

56 minutes ago, chip000 said:

 I’m guessing you’d like the police to utilise the appropriate powers when you or your loved ones are victims? As for asking a question, anyone can ask anything. 
 

 

If I am the victim of a crime, I will report it to the Police, and yes I would expect them to have an appropriate response. Such as if I report a specific characteristic, I would expect them to look out for that characteristic. What I wouldn't expect is them to just bomb about stopping anyone and everyone just incase they happened to be involved in the crime ... 

 

 

[chip000]

12 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

If I am the victim of a crime, I will report it to the Police, and yes I would expect them to have an appropriate response. Such as if I report a specific characteristic, I would expect them to look out for that characteristic. What I wouldn't expect is them to just bomb about stopping anyone and everyone just incase they happened to be involved in the crime ... 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

If I am the victim of a crime, I will report it to the Police, and yes I would expect them to have an appropriate response. Such as if I report a specific characteristic, I would expect them to look out for that characteristic. What I wouldn't expect is them to just bomb about stopping anyone and everyone just incase they happened to be involved in the crime ... 

 

 

From vast experience that isn’t what happens or if it did, could perhaps happen in such minuscule Instances so as to be not worthy of note. That makes it’s effectively a made up non-story. Sorry.

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, chip000 said:

 

From vast experience that isn’t what happens or if it did, could perhaps happen in such minuscule Instances so as to be not worthy of note. That makes it’s effectively a made up non-story. Sorry.

What? Did you completely miss the point? 

The Police in various forces across the country have been pulling people over for weeks now, just to ask them where they're going. 

How is it a non-story  

[Bobba]

Recently the police stopped a car in Coleford, Glos, because of the way it was being driven and found a cut up torso in two suitcases. I would like to think that police critics would agree that this was a worthwhile stop.

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, Bobba said:

I would like to think that police critics would agree that this was a worthwhile stop.

Definitely.  I fail to see any overall problem;

• We have emergency legislation that is constrained to be regularly reviewed by Parliament to tackle an emergency
• That legislation (now slightly relaxed) required journeys to be for 'essentials' only (food, medicines, care, critical workers, food production and distribution, emergency services and repairs etc) but not social, holidays and pleasure such as days out, non essential shopping, visiting friends and relatives.
• To police that, the police have stopped (as far as I can tell, very few) and asked the purpose of the journey.  If it is in line with the 'allowed' above, no problem, but if it was breaking the rules, you got a 'telling off' and exceptionally, a fine.

I think that is right - and I would have been quite happy to be stopped and explained where I was going and why.  I can only think that anyone who is not willing to answer truthfully - must be breaking the law - whether by making an unnecessary journey to see a friend, or trying to hide a body (as above post).

Why anyone could think this simple and temporary and reviewed by Parliament measure is so sinister I cannot imagine - nor can I imagine why anyone who is doing an allowed run (e.g. grocery shopping) could have any serious objection to being stopped and asked.  It is done for a purpose - and that is to keep us safe and get back to 'normality' as soon as possible.

Edited May 21, 2020 by JohnfromUK

[captainhastings]

Slightly off tangent but in wales here now we are allowed to fish and drive to fish locally. I emailed the police and my mp and basically gave 2 locations and said can I drive from here to there. Both couldn't really help. My nearest spot is say 6 miles away. But as a gun owner I dare not risk it and get in any bother just in case. Happy to tow the line but there is so much grey I am going to play it safe and not go. 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, Bobba said:

Recently the police stopped a car in Coleford, Glos, because of the way it was being driven and found a cut up torso in two suitcases. I would like to think that police critics would agree that this was a worthwhile stop.

“Because of the way it was being driven” ... so they had reasonable cause ... no one so far has said that shouldn’t happen. 

31 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Slightly off tangent but in wales here now we are allowed to fish and drive to fish locally. I emailed the police and my mp and basically gave 2 locations and said can I drive from here to there. Both couldn't really help. My nearest spot is say 6 miles away. But as a gun owner I dare not risk it and get in any bother just in case. Happy to tow the line but there is so much grey I am going to play it safe and not go. 

A lad I know in Wales is complaining... he said he is legally allowed to go to KFC in Wales, drive miles for it, wait in a massive queue and have food handled by god knows how many people... but he can’t go to the beach, where you can easily keep 2m apart from anyone, you can be miles away from anyone on your own and be very safe compared to the above. 
 

 

[chip000]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

What? Did you completely miss the point? 

The Police in various forces across the country have been pulling people over for weeks now, just to ask them where they're going. 

How is it a non-story  

Because they have been busy doing a million other things and every stop is under unique circumstances. You can highlight anything under a microscope, it doesn’t make it representative of the real world. Trust me, the Police are far too busy to be orchestrating an illegal or time consuming harassment of pigeon shooters. If you ask any police officer that ever patrolled, they will tell you they stop or chat inquisitively to people they think may be up to no good, breaching rules, laws or public safety or that person’s demeanour or attitude warrants further attention. Or maybe generations of officers have been getting it wrong since time immemorial? 

[Mice!]

20 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

where you can easily keep 2m apart from anyone, you can be miles away from anyone on your own and be very safe compared to the above. 

Except you might not be though, where do people park?

 

 

One of the lads we play rugby with is a copper, he is just working non stop, in very difficult circumstances.

They might be spread out on the beach but that's an awful lot of people who headed for the beach, to be away from other people.

And the strange thing is,  you say its happening all over the place and has been for weeks, yet this is the first many of us will have heard of it.

Police stopping motorists during travel lockdown to ask where their going, the very nerve 🤣🤣

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Bobba said:

Recently the police stopped a car in Coleford, Glos, because of the way it was being driven and found a cut up torso in two suitcases. I would like to think that police critics would agree that this was a worthwhile stop.

But isn’t that a perfect example of Lloyd’s point? They stopped it because of ‘ the way it was being driven ‘, not because they simply wanted to know where they were going. 

[Lloyd90]

59 minutes ago, Scully said:

But isn’t that a perfect example of Lloyd’s point? They stopped it because of ‘ the way it was being driven ‘, not because they simply wanted to know where they were going. 

Yes... and they’d have probably missed it entirely, if they had spent their night down a busier road, pulling over every car coming past to ask them why they were out of their homes 👀

[panoma1]

On 18/05/2020 at 20:43, Lloyd90 said:

Much like our gun rights, drip drip drip ... it’s been proven that fun crime didn’t reduce when they banned legally owned Pistols... but we will never ever get them back... once gone they’re gone forever. 

 

Let’s see what happens when this lockdown is over. 
 

As in any job, practices will become routine and normalised. Let’s hope we don’t have Police stopping whenever whenever once this is all over. 
 

Police stopping and questioning people when they have reasonable suspicion that a crime may be committed will obviously always be supported. 

This is why us shooters should never, under ordinary circumstances, contact the police to tell them you are going shooting!........if it becomes common practice, and accepted by shooters, it will undoubtedly become mandatory!....drip, drip, drip!
Likewise until a legal position is agreed/reached, shooters should never stop challenging the authorities over being forced to pay unregulated fees to GP’s on the police’s threat of “no GP report, no certificate”....drip, drip, drip!

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

This is why us shooters should never, under ordinary circumstances, contact the police to tell them you are going shooting!........if it becomes common practice, and accepted by shooters, it will undoubtedly become mandatory!....drip, drip, drip!
Likewise until a legal position is agreed/reached, shooters should never stop challenging the authorities over being forced to pay unregulated fees to GP’s on the police’s threat of “no GP report, no certificate”....drip, drip, drip!

Exactly the point of this thread 👍🏻

[enfieldspares]

On 18/05/2020 at 21:03, vampire said:

A friend was in the force,motor cop.

They call it snooker,just don't own a red car 😂😂

Yes. My brother was in the police for twenty years plus. He told me about snooker too.