Licence renewed But..

[Scully]

4 hours ago, turbo33 said:

We pay for the certificate, the medical report is not included in the fee, unless that’s changed recently, so you can enlighten me. The licensing fee already costs the tax payer to subsidise it. We are lucky it’s not more, and on an annual basis! As far as the range of fees differ,  unfortunately this is where it will go if people don’t pay. It will then have to be a private consultation akin to Nhs or private dental care. We will all be inconvenienced and charged more due to the actions of the narrow minded. 
 

Character assessment as you term it, is just that. Like anything now, risk assessment has become paramount for so many obvious reasons. The issue of mental health has become a recognised situation over recent years, and with these extraordinary times, clearly going to get worse. As far as I’m aware, doctors have the power to inform DVLA of a drivers un suitability to have a driving license.  This isn’t a vendetta, conspiracy or black mail, it’s for the safety of the driver and general public. Circumstances change, and someone who was suitable to hold a firearms Cert or driving license last year or in our case, 5 years ago, may not be now. 
 

I’m confident that if any of the moaners and those that refuse to to pay on here, had a family tragedy at the hands of someone using a firearm for which they were granted a certificate,  and it later transpired, had serious questions about his medical suitability, none of you would be saying, “Oh well, Cest la vis, at least he got away without paying for a his medical notes”

 

 

I think you're missing the point.

The medical report isn't included in the fee because it was never meant to be, anymore than the need for a medical report.  It was meant to work by means of police having the right to enquire about your medical history if you stated there was anything worth mentioning. When you sign your application/renewal/ variation form you are giving the police authority to do this. This of course relied on the honesty of the applicant. 

Due to the incompetence of Durham (?) licensing authority and the criticism they rightly attracted as a result, it was mooted that in future they would insist on applicants forwarding a letter of anything relevant in their medical history, and that this should be done via an applicants GP. There was a time that BASC claimed this was illegal ( unless I'm mistaken ) as there is no legal requirement for an applicant to do so. It was stated that ( after much wrangling ) if, following a GP's report there was something relevant to investigate, the cost would be met by the applicant. But we've now moved on from there in many areas, to the full blown 'no GP's letter then no ticket'. Now, as it's not a legal requirement, how would you describe that practice? 

This practice has spread to where we are now, which is having absolutely no benefit to either the safety of the general public nor shooters. It is quite literally a buck passing exercise, and quite useless at that also, as it only works if the applicant declares anything untoward to his GP. It would have had no effect on the shootings at Hungerford, Dunblane, Cockermouth or Durham, which bizarrely in the latter case it could have, as the GP of the individual concerned had expressed his concern to the police, who for reasons best known to them, ignored it and returned his firearms! 

Your last paragraph isn't even worth replying to. 

 

[JJsDad]

12 hours ago, turbo33 said:

I’m struggling to see the problem here? I had to have an annual medical examination for a race car licence. Any step that’s made to help prevent a nutter getting a gun can only be a good thing for us in the future. In the past, when they’ve slipped through the net, it’s only ended badly for us. So I am very happy that all medical information is accessed. As for the cost, why should doctors do it free of charge? Their time, overheads etc. £10 a year isn’t exactly a life changing sum of money. All those who think it’s a smart move not to pay, may just find, as others have, their doctor will no longer provide the service. 

Totally agree. I have just re-newed and my GP advised that there was an admin fee of £25 to cover what is non-NHS work. The guys who think its a smart move to get the required letter and then refuse to pay could find they are shooting themselves in the foot 5 years hence.

[JJsDad]

8 hours ago, powler said:

Anyways does anyone know if this is a one off payment

No, its not a one of payment. Kent Police amongst a number of others are quite clear on their website. A Doctors letter stating you are free from a numbers of ailments is required to support new applications and all re-newals. No letter and they will not process the application. As it is required to support a renewal this suggests that every 5 years the GP will raise an invoice to cover the cost. As my GP charged £25, I can live with that as I accept it is non-NHS business, however there are some horror stories around of people being charged 3 figure sums. All strength to BASCs elbow getting the various parties to agree an acceptable charge for these letters instead of te disgraceful post code lottery that currently exists.

[Dougy]

I will again repeat what i have posted probably 3 times now. 

 

How on earth is a Dr that has not seen me for nearly 10 years make the decision that i am either fit or unfit to hold a Firearm licence pray tell me please. 

 

 

£25 or £50 to some on PW is possibly a weeks spending money on their sport, and then it seems to some on here its a tip handed out to the milkman each morning. But allot more that this its about another chip off the stock.

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, Dougy said:

I will again repeat what i have posted probably 3 times now. 

 

How on earth is a Dr that has not seen me for nearly 10 years make the decision that i am either fit or unfit to hold a Firearm licence pray tell me please. 

 

 

£25 or £50 to some on PW is possibly a weeks spending money on their sport, and then it seems to some on here its a tip handed out to the milkman each morning. But allot more that this its about another chip off the stock.

success someone has got it inaccurate out of date information being acted upon to further restrict shooting sourced by threatening us with no letter no ticket like a bunch of cheap black mailers 

[JJsDad]

2 minutes ago, Dougy said:

How on earth is a Dr that has not seen me for nearly 10 years make the decision that i am either fit or unfit to hold a Firearm licence pray tell me please. 

He is not being asked if you are fit to hold a firearm.  He is being asked to confirm by (presumably) by going over your medical records or asking you to attend an appointment for a chat, that you do not suffer from a long series of ailments (Depression, drug/alcohol abuse, bi-polar disorder etc, etc, etc.) Most Police websites who insist on a GPs letter give an example of the letter and list the ailments that the GP is expected to comment on.

[stuartyboy]

6 minutes ago, Dougy said:

How on earth is a Dr that has not seen me for nearly 10 years make the decision that i am either fit or unfit to hold a Firearm licence pray tell me please. 

No doctor can make that decision. That’s up to the police. The doctor can only pass on information or advise on certain conditions that may be incompatible with holding a license, such as mental illness.

However, the whole idea of the medical assessment is to reduce the risk of someone doing harm to themselves or others. It will never do away with the risk, but is another step to reduce it. Which isn’t a bad thing for anyone, including certificate holders. What is unacceptable is the different fees charged and who should pay them. To me, that’s the only contentious issue. 

 

[Dougy]

3 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

He is not being asked if you are fit to hold a firearm.  He is being asked to confirm by (presumably) by going over your medical records or asking you to attend an appointment for a chat, that you do not suffer from a long series of ailments (Depression, drug/alcohol abuse, bi-polar disorder etc, etc, etc.) Most Police websites who insist on a GPs letter give an example of the letter and list the ailments that the GP is expected to comment on.

I do not have to go to the Dr if i have depression, i suffer in silence for example, and how does he know my drinking habits,  drug abuse or any other health issues if ive not been for 10 years  

 

Dr Mr dougy do you have depression or have any drink or drug related habits that may affect you holding a Firearm ticket. 

 

 

And last time i went to the Dr they commented on how small my file was. 

2 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

No doctor can make that decision. That’s up to the police. The doctor can only pass on information or advise on certain conditions that may be incompatible with holding a license, such as mental illness.

However, the whole idea of the medical assessment is to reduce the risk of someone doing harm to themselves or others. It will never do away with the risk, but is another step to reduce it. Which isn’t a bad thing for anyone, including certificate holders. What is unacceptable is the different fees charged and who should pay them. To me, that’s the only contentious issue. 

 

And again as above.

But what information can a Dr that wouldnt know me if i poked him in the eye  pass on to anyone that was interested if the only information in my file was the date of my measles jab and a chipped elbow when i was 5. 

[stuartyboy]

If you personally have been fortunate enough not to see the doctor apart from routine stuff, he obviously can’t comment on any medical conditions that may impact on your suitability. That’s great and that’s another tick in the box.

But the whole point of this (apart from covering backsides) is to limit the risk. So if you have a medical condition, the police will take this into consideration. This may or may not affect your application.

And if you have no problems, that’s great. The only inconvenience is time and money. Which is up to you to decide whether or not it’s worthwhile to you

[stuartyboy]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

not done badly for nuts over the years one farmer blew his toes of duck shooting  another almost lost his teaching someone to shoot and the land lord peppered a friend shooting rabbits with us hence these days I stick anyone under fifty on a separate field to me always safety first especially mine! 

By the sounds of it, we don’t need GPs reports but some mandatory training 🤔😀

[old man]

13 hours ago, Graham M said:

In February I had to go to the Doctor to see about a sebaceous cyst in the corner of my eye as it sometimes feels a little sore and can affect my match shooting. I explained this to the new female Doctor who was quite interested in my shooting and referred me to the eye clinic  I have just sent off for my coterminous tickets and have not had any request  from West Midlands/Staffordshire police, so fingers crossed that if I do, my new Doctor will be OK with it.  

When I renewed 5 years ago my Doctor was contacted but didn't reply to the letter and my renewal went through without a hitch. Why the change from what the government first intended; it worked then why not now. 

👍 G

Will try to meet for a blast when this is over bud?

Edited May 21, 2020 by old man

[Dougy]

So remove the questions in the application form that asks about previous or underlying medical conditions. Its blatantly obvious what you choose to answer in this section is accepted as a load of twaddle and they need confirmation from a GP.

Thay may as well put the fee up to £200 and include all this, plus a medical examination, training and while their at it have a chip inserted into the back of your head listing what firearms you are permitted to own. 

[mellors]

12 minutes ago, Dougy said:

So remove the questions in the application form that asks about previous or underlying medical conditions. Its blatantly obvious what you choose to answer in this section is accepted as a load of twaddle and they need confirmation from a GP.

Thay may as well put the fee up to £200 and include all this, plus a medical examination, training and while their at it have a chip inserted into the back of your head listing what firearms you are permitted to own. 

Just sent my renewal in yesterday.

Now asks for all speeding etc not last five years as before. Only ever had one 2004 . No payment details anywhere on line or on the forms. So I rang to get them and asked about my speeding ticket from 16 years ago. Was told omitting it could cause an investigation and long delay with application. 

I dispair.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, Dougy said:

So remove the questions in the application form that asks about previous or underlying medical conditions. Its blatantly obvious what you choose to answer in this section is accepted as a load of twaddle and they need confirmation from a GP.

Thay may as well put the fee up to £200 and include all this, plus a medical examination, training and while their at it have a chip inserted into the back of your head listing what firearms you are permitted to own. 

That might not be the only thing you have to pay for, on Mark Avery’s blog he is calling for shooters to pay for the GL if we use it to control pests, he would like to see individual licences for each pest and for us to apply and pay for each licence.

 

 

52 minutes ago, mellors said:

Just sent my renewal in yesterday.

Now asks for all speeding etc not last five years as before. Only ever had one 2004 . No payment details anywhere on line or on the forms. So I rang to get them and asked about my speeding ticket from 16 years ago. Was told omitting it could cause an investigation and long delay with application. 

I dispair.

Just goes to show there’s no consistency with the police, I got a speeding ticket about 20 years ago, when I asked they said don’t bother entering it on my application.

[andrewluke]

26 minutes ago, old'un said:

That might not be the only thing you have to pay for, on Mark Avery’s blog he is calling for shooters to pay for the GL if we use it to control pests, he would like to see individual licences for each pest and for us to apply and pay for each licence.

 

 

Just goes to show there’s no consistency with the police, I got a speeding ticket about 20 years ago, when I asked they said don’t bother entering it on my application.

if you ask thet say don't bother but if you dont ask and not declare then look out

[wishy735]

On 19/05/2020 at 18:16, old'un said:

 

 

Be careful, he could be thinking the same thing and in five years when you need a doctors letter it could cost you £250.

That's ok by me. It means I am £50 better off, thanks for bringing it to my attention 😁

[steve_b_wales]

On 19/05/2020 at 14:34, Walker570 said:

I cannot quite get my head around this.  You are entitled, free of charge,to a copy of your entire medical records on request.  Ask for them and then if the police want details they can be shown a copy but not given.  I certainly would not pay, my view that is between the police and the doctor. They want details they pay for them like they do for any other outside information they request.

I contacted my local police and asked if I could send a copy of my medical records. They said no, a Pro Forma has to be signed by a GP. I did this (cost £25) and sent it in. New licences okay but not printed and sent to me yet.

[Walker570]

I would most certainly question that if they said the same to me.  What they are doing is putting leading questions to Doctors on that proforma.  Your medical records are just that your medical records, your Doctor has no further knowledge than those records and anyhting different is purely conjecture on his part .... I wonder what a Judge would make of it if asked the question.   They would be better to ask the barman at the pub you frequent.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Walker570

[old man]

Surely a clear solution here?

Ask your Doctor prior to any application for fees to produce?

If the answer is no we won't (as in my case) or more than £50.00 use an alternative like MedCert. It's done by secure server with no possibility of being tampered with by the applicant and gets the job done?

And no, I don't have shares in them.........sadly.

Edited May 22, 2020 by old man

[Graham M]

On 21/05/2020 at 08:37, old man said:

👍 G

Will try to meet for a blast when this is over bud?

Hopefully Ken.

I have just received a letter from /Staff's/West Mid's Firearms dep't telling me that my application has gone through and that further investigations will now be under way including asking my Doctor for any "RELEVANT" information. Nothing was mentioned about a Doctor's letter and it appears that Staff's/West Mid's are still applying the Home Office Guidance and only asking for a reply if something is flagged up in my records that would be of concern to them in a FAC application.

You are under Staff's so you should be under the same conditions.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Graham M

[old man]

2 hours ago, Graham M said:

Hopefully Ken.

I have just received a letter from /Staff's/West Mid's Firearms dep't telling me that my application has gone through and that further investigations will now be under way including asking my Doctor for any "RELEVANT" information. Nothing was mentioned about a Doctor's letter and it appears that Staff's/West Mid's are still applying the Home Office Guidance and only asking for a reply if something is flagged up in my records that would be of concern to them in a FAC application.

You are under Staff's so you should be under the same conditions.

Hopefully so mate.

Will be in touch as soon as clear to do so. Flyboy1950 itching to come up.

 

 

[Vince Green]

Just pay it and get on with your life.  That's my view

Edited May 28, 2020 by Vince Green

[Robden]

IMHO, don't pay.  You may not be shooting in five years time. The GP may not be here in five years time, or moved elsewhere. The rules may have changed by then.

But whatever you do don't worry about it. Life's too short, or can be, as this Covid-19 has proven.

[Newbie to this]

It's probably already been said.

If you asked your GP for their services, then pay

If your GP has done it off their own back and now want paying for something you didn't ask them to do, then politely explain, that you never asked for the service, so you will not be paying for it.

I'd also probably email the police and crime commissioner, explaining the predicament that the chief constable has put you in, by making up rules, contrary to the government guidelines.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Newbie to this

[oowee]

55 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

It's probably already been said.

If you asked your GP for their services, then pay

If your GP has done it off their own back and now want paying for something you didn't ask them to do, then politely explain, that you never asked for the service, so you will not be paying for it.

I'd also probably email the police and crime commissioner, explaining the predicament that the chief constable has put you in, by making up rules, contrary to the government guidelines.

As I understand it the issue is more the Government guidelines than the Chief Constable. The guidelines are not instructions and the CC has to be satisfied in his or her own mind to issue the ticket. If they decide, as they are apparently allowed to do, that a Dr'ss letter is required then it is a failing of the guidance.