McSpredder Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Conor, Does this mean that an individual BASC member falsely accused of a crime must now fund his/her own defence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 yes thats the way i see it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 There's an interesting letter on page 48 of the current magazine by the vice president, Peter Glenser. He makes a valid point about recovering all wounded birds but then goes on to complain about inconsiderate corvid shooters spoiling his peaceful sundays in his garden!! I'm gobsmacked. WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver One Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 So would someone from BASC like to tell us what the Legal Expenses DID actually cover us for? ie....will,they no longer be fighting the case when someone has their renewal refused? i suppose it is similar to having a contract with the newsagent. Every month you receive your copy of" guns and gunning" along with a copy of "jazz mag"....the man reason you took out the contract. You pay yearly. He decided not to supply "jazz mag" but keeps your money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 as i see it if they will give you advice if you get refused.thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 57 minutes ago, matone said: Once again though,no consultation or poll of the memberships preference . yes its a bit **** poor ,so now we pay the same subs but get less for it and no poll to test members opinion. i'm sure the staff are all on really **** wages as well . beginning to think the little exclusive club theory is correct and there's not enough spare cash in the trough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I thought it was a major step forward when this cover was originally announced as part of the package,especially in these times of uncertainty for the shooting community and the underlying attitude of some Police forces toward it.To now remove it feels very much like the rug has been pulled beneath us and the safety net (if it was ever there!) removed. I think BASC have seriously misjudged the situation again but take no pleasure in saying so ,I may add. Who is serving who is the question really........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 hours ago, scouser said: Will they be dropping the cost of renewing membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I can only assume cancellations of many memberships following the lead announcement has forced this? I’m a mandatory member of BASC through wolf fowling club, so with them through thick and thin. Lucky me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 been looking on country cover club. they do legal cover and half the price of basc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Foster Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 That's the whole point of insurance - "it is fair to pay for cover that most members will never use" - it might be you who needs it but you hope it isn't. If the person making that statement made the decision therein lies a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Given that the countdown is on until my old English game guns are effectively wallhangers I cant hang and now this, I've never felt happier about having switched to easily cancelled monthly direct debits a while back 🙃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 I have long criticised BASC who have done nothing for shooting at all over the last 15 years. They are an old boys clubs, with ridiculous salaries and trade completely off their brand image. People on here get very defensive over them but I am glad some are starting to see the light. Shooting deserves far better, especially at £80 a pop!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 What a joke. To come on and tell his members they ain't getting a refund for services they agreed and paid for is either mental or suicide. Glad I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 well i will be leaveing them after this. and go to some one that gives legal cover, that is one reason i joined basc.now that is going so am i, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.C Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 I too feel a subscription cancellation coming on. Not happy about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) May I suggest, that while legal cover is still in place, the membership possibly use it to sue BASC Edited July 3, 2020 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, mossy835 said: well i will be leaveing them after this. and go to some one that gives legal cover, that is one reason i joined basc.now that is going so am i, 1 hour ago, Mr.C said: I too feel a subscription cancellation coming on. Not happy about this. My sentiment too atm I`m afraid to say...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: ASC acts in the best interests of its members and shooting. You're having a laugh, aren't you ? basc has had a captive fee/subscription paying body for years - aka wild fowling clubs. Sadly the committees of these " keep giving" bodies could never see the shortcomings of basc as an organisation and that of the "board" and upper management) - and just kept on paying into the coffers and thus contributing to the expense accounts/ pensions etc of the "outfit", elaborate offices etc. The clubs are only just waking up to the pitfalls of monopoly models....but " better late than never" unfortunately is not going to apply in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagboy Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 12 hours ago, Luckyshot said: They already have, in effect. The annual sub has been frozen. Any other orgs doing the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: The full text of the BASC briefing on this topic is as follows: BASC acts in the best interests of its members and shooting. With regards to the legal expense’s insurance only around 150 (1 in 1000) members a year make a claim, and of those only around a half (1 in 2000 members) have their cases taken up. Yet the legal expenses policy costs almost £1 million. The cost of this insurance continues to rise rapidly each year, whilst at the same time stricter conditions and exclusions are being added to the policy. The legal expenses insurance policy is no longer providing a product which is in the best interests of members. As a result, BASC Council has decided to remove it from the membership package from July 31, 2020. We have not taken this decision lightly. The decision does not affect the membership liability or personal accident insurances which includes: up to £10 million Public Liability Cover up to £10 million Employer Liability Cover up to £10 million Product Liability Cover up to £50,000 cover for personal accidents resulting in the loss of sight, hearing, or limbs Our firearms teams will still be on hand to provide advice and guidance to all members on firearms and licencing matters. Our public liability and personal accident insurances are unaffected and remain in place. BASC’s resources are managed by Council so that we can continue to fight for shooting and benefit members. Legal expenses insurance Q&A Q: When will he cover end? A: This insurance cover will cease on 31st July 2020. Q: Why is BASC making this change? A: The cost of paying for this type of insurance is increasing at an astronomic level, it’s not fair that all members should be paying for a cover that most members will never use, that is not in the best interests of our members and is potentially against the Financial Conduct Authority rules. Q: Will this decrease the cost of membership? A: No, the cost of providing insurances as part of the membership package is approximately £13.50. The cost varies each month depending on the size of the membership and of course at renewal when the annual premium is calculated. The rest of the membership subscriptions goes to the running of the Association and all the additional activities we undertake like judicial reviews for example. Partial refunds will also not be given for the reason stated above. Q: In the years that the policy has been in place, has it made much difference? A: Whereas there have been some individual successes the police have maintained gross inconsistency, indeed in some cases it seems to have been worse. Q: Will I still get help from the BASC Firearms team with issues I may have with the possession and use of firearms? A: Yes, absolutely, the firearms team within BASC are a unique member benefit and will now be able to focus even more on direct assistance of members. Q: What are the BASC firearms team going to do to help? A: The BASC firearms team will continue to operate at a strategic level lobbying the Policing minister, Home Office, and liaising with National Police Chiefs Council Firearms and Explosives Licensing Working Group to represent shooters interests and strive for a fair and consistent licensing system. Q: The cost of insurance is advertised as £13.50 yet we are saying that it is too expensive why is that? A: £13.50 is an approximate cost of the insurance element and it varies from month to month and year to year depending on the number of members and the cost of renewing the policies. The significant increase in the cost of the LEI would increase the approximate cost greatly and impact our financial resources to enable us to provide all our current services. The BASC firearms experts are on hand to give direct help, support and advice to individual members on specific firearms licencing and possession issues. Could i ask how many brokers you used in the RFP tender for coverage? How many markets did they tender to and with what fees/commissions built in? I've just looked on the website and see that Marsh used Markel - If you're going to go the Lloyd's route, there are an awful lot more syndicates to choose from. With 155,000 members (in August, 2019) x £13.50, that's a little under £2.1M in annual spend - Take out IPT and that's a gross of £1.87M - That's a hell of a pot to play with for what is a reasonably sentient cover, generally thrown in for free with a lot of coverages "With regards to the legal expense’s insurance only around 150 (1 in 1000) members a year make a claim, and of those only around a half (1 in 2000 members) have their cases taken up" - That's the whole point of insurance - The premium of the many to pay the losses of the few. What have the loss ratios looked like for the last 5 years? I'm genuinely interested and would be happy to converse via PM is you would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Adrian Foster said: That's the whole point of insurance - "it is fair to pay for cover that most members will never use" - it might be you who needs it but you hope it isn't. If the person making that statement made the decision therein lies a big problem. Agreed,if you were one of the unfortunate few members who needed help and benefited from the scheme ,you are now going to be cut loose and thrown to the lions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsZeppelin Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 I wonder what percentage of their membership are people like myself who exclusively shoot clay targets and joined BASC for their insurance and legal cover? It would be interesting to see how much their membership drops by. A lot would be my guess as almost everyone I know who is a member is so purely for the insurance, and not too bothered about the rest. I'll be cancelling and looking at joining CPSA instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 A good opportunity for another Org to offer similar insurance and gain lots of members perhaps ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) If you have already paid, thinking that this covered the any legal expenses, you may have a basis for a claim, or if you think BASC is unfair in not offering a part refund Contact FCA directly, by telephone, they are very good. Also if you Google this by cutting and pasting "Competition and Markets Authority Report a Business Behaving Unfairly" that will take you to the official GOV UK website to make such a report and let the CMA decide. It's an easy step by step process. (thanks to Enfield Spares for the info). Edited July 3, 2020 by mick miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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