Picking up Empties

[Demonic69]

My dad, brother and I had a lovely windy day at Park Lodge on Friday. I shot with my OU and my bro shot with his new-to-him semi. The current Covid rules state that you should take your empties home with you, so we dumped them in the back mesh pockets of our skeet vests and chucked them in a bin bag after 100 clays or so. As he was shooting a Semi I taped a magnet to the end of a cleaning rod to pick up the ones that went a bit further. We always made sure we left a stand with the same number of empties as we'd shot, or more.

Every single stand had piles of empties scattered around. Every one. Some were far-flung, either from semis or a bad catch in the wind, but plenty were just on the ground by our feet. I was there a month or so ago and there weren't anywhere near as many. One stand even had a neat pile of one type of cartridge, just left behind the stand. Some old fellas were walking around with their black bag, filing it as they went. At least one group of rotund fellows were just ejecting them straight out the barrel, then walking away.

I get that people just expect the ground to clear up after them, but is it really that much of a hardship to just take your rubbish with you? They even give you a free black bag! I wanted to say something, but my my dad didn't want me to cause a scene and they'd gone by the time we swung past that side of the ground again. With the handling rules in place I can't blame the ground for not picking them all up.

Is this standard Clay Ground etiquette? I'm always amazed by people's inability to chuck 2 carts in the bins provided, but Covid seems to have robbed them of the ability to even place them in a bag.

[DUNKS]

 fully agree that you should  not leave your empties on the ground. We never do but i consider it a bit over the top for them to insist you cant just put them in the big bins. They are never handled by staff after all.

[Demonic69]

3 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

 fully agree that you should  not leave your empties on the ground. We never do but i consider it a bit over the top for them to insist you cant just put them in the big bins. They are never handled by staff after all.

I'm not sure where the rule came from, just part of their Covid guidance it seems

[captainhastings]

Just common politeness where ever you are to pickup your empties. Pet hate finding them on my perms in case the farmer thinks its me

[Rob85]

Its common courtesy to pick up your empties. If I shoot any steel shot cartridges in the fields with a plastic shot cup I always have a cursory glance around to see if I can find the shot cup as well.

[lakeside1000]

I only shoot fibre wad ammo now as the plastic wads look really unsightly and annoys the hell out of the farm owners, I do however after every session is finished take a nose dive into the nettles and brambles to recover as many as possible of the empties, I do a count up to try to account for every one as I don't want to lose the permission over such a simple thing as picking up empties, perhaps the clay shoots should have someone roaming around checking shooters are clearing up ,I'm sure if they were confronted they would soon fall into line , its like driving down the road following a car that has rubbish flying out of the window onto the verge, drives me insane with anger how people treat our beautiful countryside, 😡

[Jacko3275]

I was at park lodge Sunday carts all over there are just some idol **** who can’t pick/catch there own carts to dispose of but then again at park lodge even if the bins are there people don’t bother they must have forgotten to take there butler or loader 

[TRINITY]

I have shot at quite a few grounds including park lodge during the covid period. Everyone bar park lodge still have their bins out and allow you to leave spent cartridges as before. This take home policy makes little sense to me other than possible cost cutting. 

They'll  be asking you to bring your own Clay's next 😉

[Ultrastu]

How about a simple 1 p per empty cart returned  off your bill at the end of the day .

There will always be some one who goes around trying to collect loads .

But if the cost is covered to start with it wouldn't matter.

 

[Walker570]

Happens on driven days, ok we are paying a fair sum to shoot but it is no chore to pick up what you have shot and leave the place tidy. I have gone to a peg before now and found a pile of shells from a previous gun BUT I always clear everything up.     I used to think ...Oh clay shooters...but your post has given me faith.

[Scully]

Haven’t come across that rule to be honest, perhaps it’s that particular club.
Ours just go in the bin as usual. 

[bluesj]

We made a rule on sim days that you have your own bin and take it with you, it just means one lot of clean up and disinfect for us at the end of the day not after every drive.

[Farmboy91]

Covid hasn't cured laziness.

The same people who left their empties on the floor before all this will be the same ones doing it now and they will be doing it long after all this has past. 

 

[enfieldspares]

Quote

At least one group of rotund fellows were just ejecting them straight out the barrel, then walking away.

As you do in "practice" or training so you will do in real life. But there's no excuse afterwards for walking away and leaving them. Unless of course they've been told to do that by the ground owner. In police training it's now long since taught not to pick up empties as there was in the US more than one sad case of an officer shot during a firefight as he'd either gone to pick up empties or was found dead with his pockets filled with empty cases.

That doesn't apply here as "life and death" but it can still have a cause and effect for those who mostly shoot clays and practice cover and catch as they break open their gun after each single bird for Skeet or after each pair for other shooting. So I'd guess that the rotund fellows may not have been so fat as not to be able to bend over but may also have been primarily driven game shooters?

Or they know that a dustbin at home with empty shotgun cartridges in it compromises the security of your gun storage as it indicates there are guns in that household. It's the same reason many advise never putting the carton that your new television or laptop computer came in in your refuse bins. But to put them in a neighbourhood or local communal recycling bin.

So they...as do I not...do not cover the breech of our gun with our hand to catch the shells when clayshooting but let them eject out. I've seen a few that on a driven day have missed a shot at birds as they have covered the breech to catch the fired cartridges and a good sporting bird, or birds, has flown over them without being engaged . Much to the annoyance of the Shoot Captain. He/she has presented birds well that are then not being shot at. 

The other danger with picking up empties whilst the gun you are using is broken and being held by you is getting mud in the muzzles as you crouch down to collect the empties. Litter is litter and once the gun is put safely aside or in its slip then, yes, pick up empties but to do so with the gun in hand and broken risks a blocked muzzle. It is a bad habit to develop. Safe enough on a clay ground with concrete slabbed or close mown grass underfoot but not at all safe if pegged in a ploughed field on a driven day.

Edited September 29, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

7 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

As you do in "practice" or training so you will do in real life. But there's no excuse afterwards for walking away and leaving them. Unless of course they've been told to do that by the ground owner. In police training it's now long since taught not to pick up empties as there was in the US more than one sad case of an officer shot during a firefight as he'd either gone to pick up empties or was found dead with his pockets filled with empty cases.

I'd guess that the rotund fellows may not have been able to bend over but may also have been driven game shooters? So they...as do I...do not cover the breech of our gun with our hand to catch the shells when clayshooting but let them eject out. I've seen a few that on a driven day have missed a shot at birds as they have covered the breech to catch the fired cartridges and a good sporting bird, or birds, has flown over them without being engaged . Much to the annoyance of the Shoot Captain.

The other danger with picking up empties whilst the gun you are using is broken and being held by you is getting mud in the muzzles as you crouch down to collect the empties. Litter is litter and once the gun is put safely aside or in its slip then, yes, pick up empties but to do so with the gun in hand and broken risks a blocked muzzle. It is a bad habit to develop. Safe enough on a clay ground with concrete slabbed or close mown grass underfoot but not at all safe if pegged in a ploughed field on a driven day.

This. I always cover the ejectors at a clay ground, to the extent it has to be a deliberate decision to remember NOT to do so on a peg when the birds are coming thick and fast. 
On local BIG shoot the beaters are issued bags with which to collect a guns spent cases ( not all guns pick them up ) but with things as they are I doubt we’ll be picking them up this season, so I’m assuming the guns will be asked to pick up their own. 

[Demonic69]

Cheers for the reply EnfieldSpares. I don't game shoot, so I didn't realise you wouldn't catch your cartridges on eject. I made the assumption that if they weren't bothering to catch, the probably weren't bothering to pick up afterwards, possibly incorrectly!

I'm not sure where the rule about empties came from. I didn't notice it at DoveRidge or Cockett either now I think back. Maybe their bin-men aren't collecting empties? They may just be going above and beyond to protect their staff (or saving a bit of money with the downturn in visitors).

[LeedsZeppelin]

Regardless of what you do whilst game shooting, it is pure laziness not to pick up empties on a clay ground.

The exception been semi-auto ejections that have fallen in front of the firing line.

[Demonic69]

5 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Regardless of what you do whilst game shooting, it is pure laziness not to pick up empties on a clay ground.

The exception been semi-auto ejections that have fallen in front of the firing line.

The magnet stick worked well for the further flung semi carts without having to lean over the rope

[JTaylor91]

I shoot park lodge fairly often and even before the Covid stuff there were plenty that would just eject the empty’s and walk away. 

[enfieldspares]

13 minutes ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

Regardless of what you do whilst game shooting, it is pure laziness not to pick up empties on a clay ground.

The exception been semi-auto ejections that have fallen in front of the firing line.

Agreed. When you've finished your ten at Peg 1 on Sporting or your total round at English Skeet then put your gun in its slip or nearby gun rack and pick up your cases. It's simply common good manners. Unless of course they ground advises just to leave all so as to get a quicker throughput of shooters.

[Centrepin]

Untill Corvid I shot about once a week at Park Lodge. It was always immaculately kept and I was embarrassed to leave a case if i couldn't find it. I have a large magnet on a telescopic rod. Car spares derived item, £1.00 at a market.

Things must have changed as there were always plenty of bins and also staff around as they are working to a zero no bird. 

I must admit that I think the take your cases home is more cost cutting than corvid related as they have millions of empties to dispose of every year. But.....at .38p per clay, I figure I'm paying for my disposal there. Still no excuse for not picking up though. 

I too hate finding empties on my perm also. Strangley enough they're always the same make and colour🤔 I now avoid buying that make and colour routinely although often have half a dozen empties in my rubbish sack at the end of the day.

My local straw baler does put bins out but always at the left of the stand, its like he doesn't want them used.

[Northern Gunner]

I always have Bins on every stand for our shooters to dispose of their used cartridges and in general the rules for placing empties in the bins are adhered too, however, there is always some arrogant shooters who think they are above the rules and just eject them onto the ground around the stands and walk away thinking someone will tidy up after them. It is annoying and time consuming clearing up after them and to be honest we don't need people like that at our shoot.

I however, find it hard to accept Coronavirus as a reason for a ground to ask shooters to take home their spent cartridges as if they are placed in a large bin on the stand the bins can be emptied without having to even touch the cartridges. We do a sweep around and collect and empty the bins in to a skip at the end of every shoot. It would appear that Park Lodge are just trying to make more money out of the paying public by saving on skip hire.

It probably cost my ground about £750 a year for cartridge disposal (skip replacement) which isn't a great deal to keep the ground tidy and the tree huggers off our backs.

Polite Notices requesting the Guns to use the Bins provided normally work with the majority.  

[DUNKS]

Sorry but I cant see how empty carts and cartridge boxes are going to mark you as a gun owner if put into household waste! Our wheely bins are completely anonymous, the guys who empty them never look inside and when in the truck  the waste joins waste from hundreds of houses. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, DUNKS said:

Sorry but I cant see how empty carts and cartridge boxes are going to mark you as a gun owner if put into household waste! Our wheely bins are completely anonymous, the guys who empty them never look inside and when in the truck  the waste joins waste from hundreds of houses. 

Some folk paint their house number onto their waste bins or bags! Why I have no idea, but some do. 😀

[DUNKS]

My mistake. I assumed most houses now had wheely bins which just get tipped into a truck. Never seen our bin lads look inside a wheely. Too busy getting on and home.