Nurses 1% pay increase

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

How much is a reasonable wage? 

£25-30k starting off as newly qualified (thats without the shift enhancements on extra pay for working Saturdays/ Sundays and any evening hour enhancements). 
 

A band 6, which is not hard to achieve (my mate got a band 6 job in less that 1 year of being newly qualified) is £31-38k... again not including the out of hours enhancements. 
 

What’s jobs for we compare it against? Police? Teachers? Social workers? Prison officers? 
 

Being appreciative of their hard work, and many have undoubtedly worked extremely hard over recent months, doesn’t make NHS workers deserving of some sort of hero worship and us suddenly deciding they should get a 12.5% pay rise whilst all the above workers get a 5 year pay freeze. 

 

Very good points

[chesterse]

If it was any other job/profession then performance would come into it. I’ve never heard or seen how our NHS performed against other “rich countries. Like percentage wise how did we compare on numbers going into hospital and those coming out alive.

[Lloyd90]

18 minutes ago, Duckandswing said:

They save lives daily. For that in my eyes they deserve to be looked after. I know it’s their job. To me that doesn’t really make a difference. I feel they simply deserve it. 

Deserve what? Put a number on it. 
 

What about all the other public service workers who have gone above and beyond during all this? 
 

The idea keeps getting floated by the media as if it’s only nurses who have been going to work this entire time whilst everyone else has sat at home. 

12 minutes ago, chesterse said:

If it was any other job/profession then performance would come into it. I’ve never heard or seen how our NHS performed against other “rich countries. Like percentage wise how did we compare on numbers going into hospital and those coming out alive.

Its not comparable, everyone does their stats differently. 
 

But health wise we aren’t that highly rated against many other countries around the world I don’t think 🤔

Edited March 7, 2021 by Lloyd90

[clangerman]

17 minutes ago, Duckandswing said:

They save lives daily. For that in my eyes they deserve to be looked after. I know it’s their job. To me that doesn’t really make a difference. I feel they simply deserve it. 

exactly this is a debt not a pay rise despite being terrified of dying they stepped to the plate for the lives of others checkout staff don’t hold your hand at 3am in icu prison officers don’t clean your drain out that would make a pig vomit sir tom must be hanging his head with shame if they don’t deserve a few quid all government support should stop 

[scutt]

Why not tell the unions that the nurses can have a bigger pay rise if we cut the overseas aid down to nil.and the stand back and sea labour and the press explode

[Lloyd90]

Regardless I can see the going on strike. 
 

The support from nurses for a strike will be massive. 
 

Regardless of what they are paid they wanted a golden handshake for “stepping up” and are now fuming that they aren’t getting a fat pay rise for their work. 
 

Some of the band 6 discharge managers in my old job are on social media in a raging fury. Like I said earlier, they have no front line care duties, they sit in an office phoning social workers asking how the discharge plans are coming along and bouncing around chasing people up. On £38k a year but are in a fury that they haven’t had the 12.5% rise. 
 

That’s besides the point that the NHS got a private company in to do all the discharges (where they illegally sent a load of people to care homes against their will) 🤦‍♂️ 
 

 

Once again the NHS is being pushed as an organisation that is immune from fair criticism. That just leads to poor outcomes for patients and everyone involved. 

[scolopax]

They can have whatever pay rise they want so long as it comes from savings produced from reducing the 1,300,000 NHS headcount.

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, scolopax said:

They can have whatever pay rise they want so long as it comes from savings produced from reducing the 1,300,000 NHS headcount.

 

 

Fair point;

I was hospitalised (major NHS hospital) in November 2020 - A&E admission on Dr's orders, non Covid and in for 3 days.  It was an eye opener.

A&E had more staff than patients.  I was admitted at approx 14:00 and was in A&E for 11 hours on a wooden chair in a corridor (and feeling far from my best anyway).  Initial assessment was rapid and efficient, but then I kept being told that I would hear what was to be done/whether I was to be kept in in "half an hour" (I needed to arrange transport home if they weren't to keep me in).

Eventually about 21:00 they told me I was to be admitted to a ward and put me on a drip - but I wasn't eventually taken to a ward until 01:30 in the morning.  Only one other bed was occupied in the 'bay' of 6 where I was placed.

Nurses were very good and helpful getting ready for a bed when attached to a drip etc is a little complex!

Vitals (temp, blood pressure, oxygen, pulse) measured with a complex array of instruments wheeled round and blood sample taken for CRP level taken every few hours ........ but slightly astonishingly taken from the elaborate console read off by one nurse, transcribed into a ring binder by another nurse, and finally typed into the ward terminal (which was next to my bed) by one of the nurses.  Covid test every 48 hours (negatives fortunately).

Eventually told I would be discharged (Sunday) by lunchtime ............ and not actually discharged until nearly 21:00 (Sunday evening) which caused more family/transport problems.

Overall - the care I received was excellent and the nurses excellent - but it was SO disjointed and disorganised.  I was finally discharged with a large quantity of pills to take on which the labels on the boxes for how many how often were completely different from the instruction sheet I had been given and the instructions from the hospital Doctor.

Another patient was admitted whilst I was there for a non urgent hernia operation - kept in one night - and then sent home again without the operation (no theatre available apparently) - he told me it was the third time that had happened to him.

[Sussexboy]

45 minutes ago, scolopax said:

They can have whatever pay rise they want so long as it comes from savings produced from reducing the 1,300,000 NHS headcount.

 

 

And therein lies the problem, the huge numbers involved. If everybody in the NHS got a 1% pay increase, that would be close on 300 million pounds, just to cover a pay rise that satisfies nobody. If the 12.5% came to pass you are looking at over 3 billion pounds, just to cover a pay rise. That is money that cannot be spent on equipment, drugs, essential staff replacement etc. So the question has to be asked. Given the perilous state of the national finances, what services do you want cut to pay for this? 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Sussexboy

[clangerman]

trust me when doped up you don’t know your pulling all the pipe work and stuff out in the early hrs only one on watch to save you is the NURSE if she feels to short changed to check on you a few quid won’t matter when your dead 

[henry d]

Perhaps it should be like a vaccine passport, perhaps a badge saying; "I did/didn't want you to get a pay rise" but in the end you will still get the same treatment.

Pay peanuts, get a monkey.

[Scully]

Lifeboat crews risk their lives each time they set out, as do mountain rescuers, but they do it because thats what they chose to do. Fire and rescue services do it because that’s what they chose to do, as do the Police and our armed services. What a mess it would be if they all started whinging when the going got tough. 

It’s a profession they chose, of their own free will, and yes, they deserve to be paid well, which on the whole they are, and if they feel they’re not, they can always leave; no one is forcing them to do any of it. 

[moondoggy]

32 minutes ago, Scully said:

Lifeboat crews risk their lives each time they set out, as do mountain rescuers, but they do it because thats what they chose to do. Fire and rescue services do it because that’s what they chose to do, as do the Police and our armed services. What a mess it would be if they all started whinging when the going got tough. 

It’s a profession they chose, of their own free will, and yes, they deserve to be paid well, which on the whole they are, and if they feel they’re not, they can always leave; no one is forcing them to do any of it. 

Plus, most lifeboat and mountain rescue are volunteers, so they risk their lives for diddly squat.

[scouser]

Not many people go into work to stare death in the face, they where promised 2%+ by Teresa may.

[clangerman]

47 minutes ago, henry d said:

Perhaps it should be like a vaccine passport, perhaps a badge saying; "I did/didn't want you to get a pay rise" but in the end you will still get the same treatment.

Pay peanuts, get a monkey.

brilliant idea just a shame nurses are above withholding treatment from the ungrateful who will still accept it 

[Scully]

11 minutes ago, scouser said:

Not many people go into work to stare death in the face, they where promised 2%+ by Teresa may.

No, but some do it as volunteers, for no wage. It’s called freedom of choice; if you don’t like it then you’re free to go elsewhere. 

[The Heron]

12.5% pay rise I think someone has been in the drugs cabinet. 

[johnnythefox70]

5 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Regardless I can see the going on strike. 
 

The support from nurses for a strike will be massive. 
 

Regardless of what they are paid they wanted a golden handshake for “stepping up” and are now fuming that they aren’t getting a fat pay rise for their work. 
 

Some of the band 6 discharge managers in my old job are on social media in a raging fury. Like I said earlier, they have no front line care duties, they sit in an office phoning social workers asking how the discharge plans are coming along and bouncing around chasing people up. On £38k a year but are in a fury that they haven’t had the 12.5% rise. 
 

That’s besides the point that the NHS got a private company in to do all the discharges (where they illegally sent a load of people to care homes against their will) 🤦‍♂️ 
 

 

Once again the NHS is being pushed as an organisation that is immune from fair criticism. That just leads to poor outcomes for patients and everyone involved. 

Ive full respect for anyone and all that have been working through the pandemic no matter what they do and I couldnt have put it any better myself, well said that man 👍

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Fair point;

I was hospitalised (major NHS hospital) in November 2020 - A&E admission on Dr's orders, non Covid and in for 3 days.  It was an eye opener.

A&E had more staff than patients.  I was admitted at approx 14:00 and was in A&E for 11 hours on a wooden chair in a corridor (and feeling far from my best anyway).  Initial assessment was rapid and efficient, but then I kept being told that I would hear what was to be done/whether I was to be kept in in "half an hour" (I needed to arrange transport home if they weren't to keep me in).

Eventually about 21:00 they told me I was to be admitted to a ward and put me on a drip - but I wasn't eventually taken to a ward until 01:30 in the morning.  Only one other bed was occupied in the 'bay' of 6 where I was placed.

Nurses were very good and helpful getting ready for a bed when attached to a drip etc is a little complex!

Vitals (temp, blood pressure, oxygen, pulse) measured with a complex array of instruments wheeled round and blood sample taken for CRP level taken every few hours ........ but slightly astonishingly taken from the elaborate console read off by one nurse, transcribed into a ring binder by another nurse, and finally typed into the ward terminal (which was next to my bed) by one of the nurses.  Covid test every 48 hours (negatives fortunately).

Eventually told I would be discharged (Sunday) by lunchtime ............ and not actually discharged until nearly 21:00 (Sunday evening) which caused more family/transport problems.

Overall - the care I received was excellent and the nurses excellent - but it was SO disjointed and disorganised.  I was finally discharged with a large quantity of pills to take on which the labels on the boxes for how many how often were completely different from the instruction sheet I had been given and the instructions from the hospital Doctor.

Another patient was admitted whilst I was there for a non urgent hernia operation - kept in one night - and then sent home again without the operation (no theatre available apparently) - he told me it was the third time that had happened to him.

Very similar story for my mother a couple of years ago she was in hospital with sepsis. One day she phoned me to say the doctor has told her she could go home. It was actually 36 hours before she got out, the delay was purely about getting her paperwork done.

She is back in hospital now, on Friday they moved her to a different hospital. Today is Sunday, she still hasn't seen a doctor since she arrived. Which means she has taken up a hospital bed for three days without getting any treatment

 

[enfieldspares]

21 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

My doctor friends pretty unanimously hated the “clap for the NHS”. They found it embarrassing and the excruciating hypocrisy of those often elderly, often needing care, often conservative voters clapping for them after supporting years of austerity was cringeworthy. Interestingly they are quite well paid so were not fussed over pay, but rather working practices and conditions. 

This.

What did Johnson and all think then happened? These NHS workers go to fill up with petrol and when told it'll be £60 reply "People clapped for me last night." To then be told "Oh that's good. It's still £60 though please."

Clapping is worth when it is time to pay the bills exactly what it cost. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. But if it fools gullible people into thinking that Johnson and all are "in it together" with NHS workers it's beyond price.

Johnson is of that certain smug species of Tory (as I've know some decent, good, genuine folk who are Tories) that like Thatcher "There's no such thing as society" know the price of everything and the value of nothing. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

This.

What did Johnson and all think then happened? These NHS workers go to fill up with petrol and when told it'll be £60 reply "People clapped for me last night." To then be told "Oh that's good. It's still £60 though please."

Clapping is worth when it is time to pay the bills exactly what it cost. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. But if it fools gullible people into thinking that Johnson and all are "in it together" with NHS workers it's beyond price.

Johnson is of that certain smug species of Tory (as I've know some decent, good, genuine folk who are Tories) that like Thatcher "There's no such thing as society" know the price of everything and the value of nothing. 

I’m not sure it was Boris who initiated the clapping thing, but I may be wrong.

There is a Macmillan nurse in our village, who did more than her fair share of nursing Covid victims ( she volunteered to go back and reprise her role as a SRN ) and she said that she felt like punching those folk in the village who clapped; found it all very embarrassing and immature. 

[Newbie to this]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure it was Boris who initiated the clapping thing, but I may be wrong.

You are correct, it was an LBC idea (or they were claiming credit), and nothing more than virtue signalling.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Newbie to this

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure it was Boris who initiated the clapping thing, but I may be wrong.

You're correct. He didn't. I think it was just another convenient passing bandwagon he climbed on to. In the cynical belief, no doubt, that it would increase his "good old Boris" likeability with us plebs. Standing on the steps with his current woman. And now she's demanding how much to decorate? £200,000 by some estimates. From "Tory party donors" the press reports. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by enfieldspares

[henry d]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

Lifeboat crews risk their lives each time they set out, as do mountain rescuers, but they do it because thats what they chose to do. Fire and rescue services do it because that’s what they chose to do, as do the Police and our armed services. What a mess it would be if they all started whinging when the going got tough. 

It’s a profession they chose, of their own free will, and yes, they deserve to be paid well, which on the whole they are, and if they feel they’re not, they can always leave; no one is forcing them to do any of it. 

Gonads.

MR and lifeboats do it because governments say, "OK, thanks for that..." As they don't have to pay up. FF's you forget 77 and 04 the former was due to many being on the breadline and having to work 2 jobs. Plod, no idea, forces is the only relevant argument yet it is apples and oranges argument, you can train for normal day to day scenarios but not for the apocalyptic. If the services had to deal with (for instance) Russian ships blockading us, air force backing up tanks rumbling across Europe, would you say thanks but that's your job?

[39TDS]

9 hours ago, London Best said:

Anybody who lives at 100% of their income is a fool.

Yep, needs to be 110% at the very least