Is this the end of Employee rights ?, All the hard fight in getting better working conditions from Ww2, British Gas sack 600??

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I think this Pandemic and lock downs have got many PW members including myself putting their thoughts on what has gone wrong in England, the above is not a first, a few years back a chap I knew worked at Heathrow on Maintenance , he was a sparky on a good salary, Company did same as BG and took on most EU nationals at a much lower cost, 

[henry d]

Take a breath, clear your thoughts and try and express what is in your head in a logical manner as the above does not really make much sense.

[lakeside1000]

I know what you mean, I retired 15 years ago from a good job with Anglian Water, well paid and very secure, I look at the work place now and cannot imagine how people get up every day and go to work, even if they are lucky enough to still have a job, the virus and lock down has destroyed communities, families and the companies that employ them all, its ripped the heart out of what used to be one of the best countries in the world to live in, and I have lived and worked in quite a few of them.

Even in retirement I still get depressed listening to the news every day, so down beat all the time, 

I could go on for hours complaining but what good does it do, my wife and I are lucky to be in good health and used to enjoy travelling abroad, now we cannot even leave our community, yet the government turn a blind eye to thousands entering our country (both legal and illegal) with very little control over any of them.

What worries me most is the future for my two sons and my wonderful grand children, even if the grandkids do complete a decent education  what sort of a future is there for them, 

All I can say is I am still proud to be British, 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by lakeside1000

[Chris B123]

What you must remember is, its not just the UK, we are fairing a lot better than many other countries.

[Guest cookoff013]

Im my previous job, it was crazy what management was doing. Hiring overseas employees that needed a visa, then forcing them to do 110hours a week. Only 37 paid.

Thats slavery.

[oldypigeonpopper]

39 minutes ago, henry d said:

Take a breath, clear your thoughts and try and express what is in your head in a logical manner as the above does not really make much sense.

Hello, I don't think the 600 who were sacked would agree with you Henry 🤔

34 minutes ago, lakeside1000 said:

I know what you mean, I retired 15 years ago from a good job with Anglian Water, well paid and very secure, I look at the work place now and cannot imagine how people get up every day and go to work, even if they are lucky enough to still have a job, the virus and lock down has destroyed communities, families and the companies that employ them all, its ripped the heart out of what used to be one of the best countries in the world to live in, and I have lived and worked in quite a few of them.

Even in retirement I still get depressed listening to the news every day, so down beat all the time, 

I could go on for hours complaining but what good does it do, my wife and I are lucky to be in good health and used to enjoy travelling abroad, now we cannot even leave our community, yet the government turn a blind eye to thousands entering our country (both legal and illegal) with very little control over any of them.

What worries me most is the future for my two sons and my wonderful grand children, even if the grandkids do complete a decent education  what sort of a future is there for them, 

All I can say is I am still proud to be British, 

 

Hello, thankyou for posting, 

[Cosmicblue]

I'm less sympathetic here.  To the 600 who got the bullet as result of not accepting the contract/terms - if you don't like the way it's going then go and get another job.   The stick head in sand/hope it will go away strategy was never going to work.  Complete muppets.

[oldypigeonpopper]

17 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

Im my previous job, it was crazy what management was doing. Hiring overseas employees that needed a visa, then forcing them to do 110hours a week. Only 37 paid.

Thats slavery.

Hello, I am not surprised this is happening more than people realise, 🤔

2 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

I'm less sympathetic here.  To the 600 who got the bullet as result of not accepting the contract/terms - if you don't like the way it's going then go and get another job.   The stick head in sand/hope it will go away strategy was never going to work.  Complete muppets.

Hello, thanks to reply, I am sure those 600 will find jobs or go self employed as the UK is short of qualified gas engineers, but wait for the rush of other companies to follow BG, 

[clangerman]

this just shows the rest of british gas employees what the company thinks of them only a idiot treats staff in this manner 

[discobob]

6 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I am not surprised this is happening more than people realise, 🤔

It has - without them even needing to come to this country - called "Off-Shore"

Those that do come here are very similar - used a lot by the top consultancies - and are put up in shared housing (when not on customers premises and getting hotels paid for them)

[Dave-G]

Sounds like the downside of unions making foreigners much more affordable than UK workers.

[henry d]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I don't think the 600 who were sacked would agree with you Henry 🤔

And that doesn't make sense either.

Are you saying BG sacked them and brought in EU nationals, and that it should not be going on because we expected better working conditions after the second world war? £40 000 PA for a gas engineer is quoted and as far as I am concerned that is a pretty good wage, £10K more than a firefighter, and if the 2% of the workforce decided not to sign then they must have known what the outcome would be.

[Rewulf]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/british-gas-disgrace-workers-sacked-23915147

Sounds like a pretty good case for legal action to me , constructive dismissal ?

25 minutes ago, henry d said:

And that doesn't make sense either.

I think everyone else got it it Henry .

[JohnfromUK]

It is part of the long term war of who runs business; the management or the workforce/unions.  It is not confined to British Gas, many companies do similar.  I'm not taking sides but the issues (as I see them) are this;

• Over time, the business environment (competition, equipment, legislation, working practices, products supplied and fitted, services offered etc.) all change
• To meet this change - changes in employees contracts are likely to be needed.  This may mean changes to working practices, remuneration 'packages', pensions, company cars, holiday allowances etc.
• In most instances these are negotiated in the usual spirit of a bit of 'give and take' on both sides
• In some instances, agreement cannot be reached
• Current legislation makes it near enough impossible for management to impose it's changes without agreement
• One way round this is to do what is called crudely 'fire and re-hire'

I'm not up to speed on the full details in this particular case (although BG/Centrica have not been exactly competitive - nor do they enjoy a good reputation for good service)  and I'm not calling out one side as 'right' or 'wrong', but change has to be accepted for businesses to stay competitive and in business.  It may be a case of the business thinking it cannot continue (i.e. will be on a path to failure) without those changes - and if they can't be agreed by compromise - then management must find a way of imposing them, or see the business fail - in which case everyone looses.

[12gauge82]

6 hours ago, henry d said:

Take a breath, clear your thoughts and try and express what is in your head in a logical manner as the above does not really make much sense.

It couldn't be any clearer Henry, everyone else seems to get it. Maybe you just don't want to see? 

[old man]

7 hours ago, henry d said:

Take a breath, clear your thoughts and try and express what is in your head in a logical manner as the above does not really make much sense.

Caused by frustration henry, you may find a similar condition afflicts you as the years of this carp and destruction continue?

[oldypigeonpopper]

20 hours ago, henry d said:

And that doesn't make sense either.

Are you saying BG sacked them and brought in EU nationals, and that it should not be going on because we expected better working conditions after the second world war? £40 000 PA for a gas engineer is quoted and as far as I am concerned that is a pretty good wage, £10K more than a firefighter, and if the 2% of the workforce decided not to sign then they must have known what the outcome would be.

Hello, no my post read the Heathrow company sacked all the employees and took on EU nationals at a lower income,  

Edited April 17, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper

[Taileron]

On 16/04/2021 at 09:58, Cosmicblue said:

I'm less sympathetic here.  To the 600 who got the bullet as result of not accepting the contract/terms - if you don't like the way it's going then go and get another job.   The stick head in sand/hope it will go away strategy was never going to work.  Complete muppets.

My pal has just done exactly what you described. He is a gas engineer/plumber who was working for a major player in the midlands and had his contract changed dramatically. His new terms have removed all of his paid sick leave,  even though he had been sick for 5 days in 29 years and included 24 hour call outs over weekends/ holiday etc with a 5% pay cut to boot.

He (along with several others) graciously declined the offer and walked, the irony now is that he is subcontracting to the same company self employed, plus a load of extra money......couldn’t make it up!

[matone]

On 16/04/2021 at 10:15, clangerman said:

this just shows the rest of british gas employees what the company thinks of them only a idiot treats staff in this manner 

They don`t treat their customers any better! Cowboy outfit. Our utilities should belong to the country not £ grabbing sharks.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, Taileron said:

He (along with several others) graciously declined the offer and walked, the irony now is that he is subcontracting to the same company self employed, plus a load of extra money......couldn’t make it up!

That might've been the aim though?  The self-motivated will do this, the less, uh, motivated will either walk or put up?

Net benefit to the company, better work from a smaller headcount, which can be reduced in numbers easily should the need arise, as they're now self employed.

The fact that your mate's hourly rate has gone up is probably still less than the net cost to the company than an employee on the books.

2 hours ago, matone said:

They don`t treat their customers any better! Cowboy outfit. Our utilities should belong to the country not £ grabbing sharks.

I have a policy of avoiding doing business with any former national utilities that have been privatised, as it's the worst of all worlds.  BT, BG, Royal Mail...just don't give them your money.

[Lloyd90]

When we needed a new boiler we got quoted around £3-4K I believe after speaking to several companies. 
 

British Gas wanted something like £12k. No justification given when asked why they were 3-4x the cost of everyone else. They basically just said we’re British Gas, as if we should have just handed over the stupid amount of money and thanked them for taking our cash. 
 

Surprised they’ve lasted as long as they have. 

[Cosmicblue]

5 hours ago, Taileron said:

My pal has just done exactly what you described. He is a gas engineer/plumber who was working for a major player in the midlands and had his contract changed dramatically. His new terms have removed all of his paid sick leave,  even though he had been sick for 5 days in 29 years and included 24 hour call outs over weekends/ holiday etc with a 5% pay cut to boot.

He (along with several others) graciously declined the offer and walked, the irony now is that he is subcontracting to the same company self employed, plus a load of extra money......couldn’t make it up!

Absolutely the right thing to do - the leadership of the BG will discover that the shot term objective will end up costing more in the longer term.

[Wharf Rat]

12 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Absolutely the right thing to do - the leadership of the BG will discover that the shot term objective will end up costing more in the longer term.

Modern businesses are run with no reserves and maximum dividends.  The least committed people get the most reward and the actual workers get stuff all.  It will tumble down some day.  

[Taileron]

9 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

That might've been the aim though?  

Your correct, that was their aim, to cut down on staff numbers/vans/training etc. I still can’t possibly see though how it’s of benefit as his pay rise is a significant one, even after deductions and buying a new van, makes no sense to me at all.

 

6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

British Gas wanted something like £12k.

Preying on the elderly, my neighbour was quoted 8k for a boiler plus a load of “extra” work to bring the house up to “regs”. The “regs” were thermostatic rad valves, a better insulated cylinder and some other small bits which were not broken. She was really worried  and knocked my door in tears. I asked my pal to pop around, he did the job for £500 but she bought the boiler which was a Worcester Bosch and cost £1100. We just changed my boiler, it’s astonishing what they actually cost when compared to what people are told they cost. My boiler was changed when I lived in married quarters, they fitted an ideal boiler and the MOD was paying £250 each for them.
 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Taileron

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, thankyou for your replies, I fear this British Gas scenario is the tip of a very big iceberg in Employee rights, even with a contract, !!!!