How crazy is our Government !!!!! Latin in State Schools !!!!

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I had a Victor Meldrew moment, I don't believe it , !!!, It is estimated 1000s of our young children cannot do written English, Basic Maths and spelling and Boris and gang want to spend millions on the above, I bet any money it's not even liked by Private School pupils, perhaps Boris could say where Latin is required , Tesco !!!!!!!, Any thoughts PW members ??

[Yellow Bear]

Yet another example of the Woke chattering classes not having a clue about life outside their circle.

[clangerman]

so the country is flooding with illegal migrants hard drugs are available on every street and boris gumps priority is this rubbish either it’s fake news or the worlds biggest idiot is running the show 

[ratchers]

Just get the kids to do Maths and English first 🙄

[bruno22rf]

Incredibilis.

[mel b3]

Poor Boris is having a anus horibilis. 

[Mice!]

There are a few on here like Latin, maybe Boris has been reading PW

Absolutely pointless trying to learn or teach this in schools,  I'd rather the kids had another hour or so doing something physical or practical or fun.

[Guest cookoff013]

Reading writing maths. Should be core.

im not young now, but my math skills are better than some youngsters. We have an old gent at work we have to go to to check calcs and stuff. I do alot with ms excel. 

Maybe teaching kids how to budget, for life.

[Flashman]

Latin is a useful gateway subject to aid learning other European languages and the Classics. 

Many of the posts here seem to be about:

1. Don’t like Boris - and it’s his, and only his, decision. 
2. Class war. 
3. Projecting the poster’s own comprehensive system learning experience. 

Offer the subject - and let it wither in the vine if children don’t take it. From what I read about it in the papers, it won’t divert much in the way of resources from other subjects. Who knows, it may replace Gender Issues and Knitting from the National Curriculum. 

[Vince Green]

 Trouble is there are virtually no teachers qualified to teach it

its a pilot scheme to be tried out in 40 state schools because there are concerns about the number of schools that have dropped it in recent years.

It won't be taught to all kids, just those doing languages already. A comparatively small number

Its amazing how quickly this got hijacked by the Boris bashers and twisted  

Edited August 1, 2021 by Vince Green

[oscarsdad]

25 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Latin is a useful gateway subject to aid learning other European languages and the Classics. 

Many of the posts here seem to be about:

1. Don’t like Boris - and it’s his, and only his, decision. 
2. Class war. 
3. Projecting the poster’s own comprehensive system learning experience. 

Offer the subject - and let it wither in the vine if children don’t take it. From what I read about it in the papers, it won’t divert much in the way of resources from other subjects. Who knows, it may replace Gender Issues and Knitting from the National Curriculum. 

/\ this. 
 

Not liking Boris and an incorrect assumtption that Latin is useless are the main reasons for the posts. 
 

Latin is very useful in some areas, as said foreign languages can be better and more easily understood even if you haven’t been taught them and biological / medical terms also all based on Latin. 

[walshie]

I did 4 years of Latin at school and it's been an enormous help in my day to day life. 

[Dave at kelton]

Fail to see why it is any different to teaching any other language save, as said, many modern languages derive from it. My grandson does Mandarin and Latin would be more use than that! If pupils want to learn it and there are teachers, fine. If not it will go no further. Just like me, first chance they get they will drop it.

[mel b3]

31 minutes ago, oscarsdad said:

/\ this. 
 

Not liking Boris and an incorrect assumtption that Latin is useless are the main reasons for the posts. 
 

Latin is very useful in some areas, as said foreign languages can be better and more easily understood even if you haven’t been taught them and biological / medical terms also all based on Latin. 

This is the way that I was seeing it . I could see a use for Latin with , languages , the medical profession, the legal profession,  the church , the sciences , but for kids at the average high school,  I'm not sure how much use it would be.

29 minutes ago, walshie said:

I did 4 years of Latin at school and it's been an enormous help in my day to day life. 

In what way has it helped Walshie? . I'm hoping that's not too much of a personal question. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

In what way has it helped Walshie? . I'm hoping that's not too much of a personal question. 

I suspect it was tongue in cheek. I nearly made the same post, but he beat me to it.

[matone]

1 hour ago, Flashman said:

Latin is a useful gateway subject to aid learning other European languages and the Classics. 

Many of the posts here seem to be about:

1. Don’t like Boris - and it’s his, and only his, decision. 
2. Class war. 
3. Projecting the poster’s own comprehensive system learning experience. 

Offer the subject - and let it wither in the vine if children don’t take it. From what I read about it in the papers, it won’t divert much in the way of resources from other subjects. Who knows, it may replace Gender Issues and Knitting from the National Curriculum. 

As someone who was taught Latin in a state grammar school i agree with you ,it gives a head start with many languages.

[mel b3]

6 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I suspect it was tongue in cheek. I nearly made the same post, but he beat me to it.

I paused before I asked the question 😅 , but I thought that it could possibly have a very interesting answer.

[chrisjpainter]

 

3 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Fail to see why it is any different to teaching any other language save, as said, many modern languages derive from it. My grandson does Mandarin and Latin would be more use than that! If pupils want to learn it and there are teachers, fine. If not it will go no further. Just like me, first chance they get they will drop it.

Learning to speak the second most common language in the world, spoken as a first language by one of the most important manufacturing countries? Yeah...I wonder why that's becoming so popular...

When a kid's struggling to write what he did at the weekend, knowing where the words he's trying to write are coming from isn't as important as knowing how to spell them in the first place. I loved Latin at primary age and wanted to do it at my secondary school but it wasn't offered in the independent I went to. However, my English and love for it comes from that school and having a succession of superb English teachers. I was one of only about three or four who'd ever done any Latin, yet we all left speaking and writing it better than the average person. That's down to the quality of the teaching, not the subjects taught.

There will always be elitism. You can't combat it by spending £4m on 40 schools over 5 years learning one benefit of elite education. However, you can at least try and make sure everyone has the most basic skillsets and having so many kids who can't read and write by the time they leave school is an abject failure of that goal.

Edited August 1, 2021 by chrisjpainter

[enfieldspares]

I did Latin at school, took an O Level in it. Got a Grade 9 when O Levels were PASS 1-6 and FAIL 7-9. I also did French and German and got a 3 and a 4, respectively, in those. Latin is of no use at all in the "non-romance" (aka not Latin based) languages which are near every other language other than French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian. 

All they did for me was waste my lesson time that I could have been learning my French and my German to a better ability. I used both later in my life working in France for twenty years plus from 1999 to 2020 (and covid and Brexit) and going to Germany in my earlier life on many occasions. If there is to be another language taught in should be Welsh...so that at least we "Brits" can have a private conversation when abroad.

We, the "Brits", already speak then language that the rest of the world learns, mostly, as a second language and many times I've heard a Frenchman talk to a German in English or a Chinese speak to a Frenchwoman in English. My objection isn't that Latin is a "elitism" it is that for the 21st Century it is pointless and, in fact, of less use in many ways than learning Ancient Greek.

[walshie]

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

I paused before I asked the question 😅 , but I thought that it could possibly have a very interesting answer.

Ego lusit.

[mel b3]

11 minutes ago, walshie said:

Ego lusit.

Did you start to say " I played Tom hanks stunt double in the da vinci code , and Latin came in very handy for chatting up nuns " ?. 

[walshie]

10 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

Did you start to say " I played Tom hanks stunt double in the da vinci code , and Latin came in very handy for chatting up nuns " ?. 

Yes.

[oldypigeonpopper]

14 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I had a Victor Meldrew moment, I don't believe it , !!!, It is estimated 1000s of our young children cannot do written English, Basic Maths and spelling and Boris and gang want to spend millions on the above, I bet any money it's not even liked by Private School pupils, perhaps Boris could say where Latin is required , Tesco !!!!!!!, Any thoughts PW members ??

Hello, had this government said they were thinking to spend this money on teaching Chinese Mandarin I would have not put my post on, being as China is the power house of so many industries and over 300 million chinese are taking to English language it would be a good opportunity for many young people in the UK to be part of that teaching , 

Edited August 1, 2021 by oldypigeonpopper

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

loved Latin at primary age and wanted to do it at my secondary school but it wasn't offered in the independent I want to. However, my English and love for it comes from that school and having a succession of superb English teachers. I was one of only about three or four who'd ever done any Latin, yet we all left speaking and writing it better than the average person. That's down to the quality of the teaching, not the subjects taught.

Great post Chris, but did you mean WENT to 😅😅😅

But joking aside you obviously had great teachers and wanted to learn.

Like you say many these days haven't got the very basics which is a real shame. 

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

I did Latin at school, took an O Level in it. Got a Grade 9 when O Levels were PASS 1-6 and FAIL 7-9. I also did French and German and got a 3 and a 4, respectively, in those. Latin is of no use at all in the "non-romance" (aka not Latin based) languages which are near every other language other than French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian. 

All they did for me was waste my lesson time that I could have been learning my French and my German to a better ability. I used both later in my life working in France for twenty years plus from 1999 to 2020 (and covid and Brexit) and going to Germany in my earlier life on many occasions. If there is to be another language taught in should be Welsh...so that at least we "Brits" can have a private conversation when abroad.

We, the "Brits", already speak then language that the rest of the world learns, mostly, as a second language and many times I've heard a Frenchman talk to a German in English or a Chinese speak to a Frenchwoman in English. My objection isn't that Latin is a "elitism" it is that for the 21st Century it is pointless and, in fact, of less use in many ways than learning Ancient Greek.

Very good 👍

[chrisjpainter]

18 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Great post Chris, but did you mean WENT to 😅😅😅

But joking aside you obviously had great teachers and wanted to learn.

Like you say many these days haven't got the very basics which is a real shame. 

Very good 👍

English good. IT skills? Not so much...no!🤦‍♂️

 

I'd love Latin to be in schools, but there are more important things to get done for thousands before you get there. The fact is it can only make language, reading and writing better if key skills are there in the first place. What use is it to teach that the word 'foundation' comes from the Latin for **** if your pupil can only read it as fo-und-at-i-on?

Edited August 1, 2021 by chrisjpainter