oldypigeonpopper Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Hello, As above, a full rescue had to be undertaken , Same as people out Hill Climbing and don't check the weather, or worse out in their Sunday best, people out sea fishing and don't check the weather or tides, I see paddle boarders on the Thames , nice in the summer but on a spate river in late October 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Well quite apart from the fact that 3 people sadly died, freedom of choice is still allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: freedom of choice is still allowed True but sadly not for the rescue services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) Very sad and one of the guys was fit as a flew and had crossed some ocean single handed. It was a bad call though as that is a tidal stretch if they were low enough and in full rip roaring flood. Not sure what tide state was at time but you got tide coming in and flood going out so some savage currents Edited October 31, 2021 by captainhastings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: …..freedom of choice is still allowed. This. Thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 I wouldn't say freedom of choice is still allowed either we are clamped down from all angles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 very sad...........you cant take nature on and win.......they really should have known better...im sure their families will be wondering the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Their stupidity was entirely their own choice, but puts rescue services at risk and the families to pick up the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 This is my county town just a few miles away, the part of river that is shown with all the agencies in the pictures has a wier and the river can become swollen quickly with all the feeds into it, it flows very fast , and there can be hidden obstacles like parts of trees.The weather here has been pretty bad the last couple of days. It's a tragedy that 3 people have died, one of them a fellow Sapper, but questions should be asked as to why they chose to paddle board the river with yellow weather warnings in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Their stupidity was entirely their own choice, but puts rescue services at risk and the families to pick up the pieces. This and you can't get a jab for stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Walker570 said: This and you can't get a jab for stupidity. But you can get a Darwin Award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 hours ago, captainhastings said: I wouldn't say freedom of choice is still allowed either we are clamped down from all angles Really, what legislation is there for paddle boarding? Mandatory PFD wearing? Courses? Marine VHF? Things like this may start those balls rolling, but they aren't in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Writing from a country with a huge accidental death rate, I've come around to the Kiwi way of thinking. Adults can make their own choices and you can't legislate to cover every aspect of human stupidity. As for the emergency services (of which I'm part), most emergency workers thrive in these situations and while no one wants to see anyone get hurt/injured, that is the job. Risk to individuals involved in a rescue also needs to be assessed prior to intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Whilst I can't understand why they did what they did, I obviously feel sorry for the loss and also feel for the families. It really shouldn't have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Houseplant said: Writing from a country with a huge accidental death rate, I've come around to the Kiwi way of thinking. Adults can make their own choices and you can't legislate to cover every aspect of human stupidity. As for the emergency services (of which I'm part), most emergency workers thrive in these situations and while no one wants to see anyone get hurt/injured, that is the job. Risk to individuals involved in a rescue also needs to be assessed prior to intervention. That sums it up nicely, terrible situation to put yourselves in and thankfully the Emergency Services are there to save as many people as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Apparently the Sapper was on foot and jumped in a failed attempt to save the women. Very sad. PFDs give a false sense of security, all they do is to make it easier for the police to fish your corpse out of the water. A life jacket is a big step up but still cannot save you if you are trapped under a branch etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 19 hours ago, henry d said: Really, what legislation is there for paddle boarding? Mandatory PFD wearing? Courses? Marine VHF? Things like this may start those balls rolling, but they aren't in place. I expect he was referring to life in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 19 hours ago, Houseplant said: Writing from a country with a huge accidental death rate, I've come around to the Kiwi way of thinking. Adults can make their own choices and you can't legislate to cover every aspect of human stupidity. As for the emergency services (of which I'm part), most emergency workers thrive in these situations and while no one wants to see anyone get hurt/injured, that is the job. Risk to individuals involved in a rescue also needs to be assessed prior to intervention. That was apparent during my visit, I thought it just common sense really? Fabulous place and people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 11 hours ago, WalkedUp said: PFDs give a false sense of security, all they do is to make it easier for the police to fish your corpse out of the water. A life jacket is a big step up but still cannot save you if you are trapped under a branch etc. A few things to ponder; why do fire service water rescue teams use pfds? In a strainer situation would a life jacket be better? How easy is it to get back on a paddle board with a life jacket compared to a pfd? Pfds can't be burst nor can they fail to inflate, and no one wants to be puffing into a tube in a life threatening situation. A pfd is bulky but less so than a life jacket so it is easier to get back on your water craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I expect he was referring to life in general. Yes I was The sapper was a brave man and his family will be proud but I imagine they also wish he wasn't a hero. Very sad. The whole group made a poor decision but it was theirs to make. They must have thought they could handle it. The news make out they got caught out by the sudden weather. I was fishing that river friday night and and it lashed it down until midnight and longer. I had some duck shooting planned for another river in the morning and new it would be in full flood and un-shootable. I also use this site https://riverlevels.uk/western-cleddau-haverfordwest-community-haverfordwest#.YYBE_FV_rIV You would think a group whos hobby is that type of thing would be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 minute ago, captainhastings said: Yes I was The sapper was a brave man and his family will be proud but I imagine they also wish he wasn't a hero. Very sad. The whole group made a poor decision but it was theirs to make. They must have thought they could handle it. The news make out they got caught out by the sudden weather. I was fishing that river friday night and and it lashed it down until midnight and longer. I had some duck shooting planned for another river in the morning and new it would be in full flood and un-shootable. I also use this site https://riverlevels.uk/western-cleddau-haverfordwest-community-haverfordwest#.YYBE_FV_rIV You would think a group whos hobby is that type of thing would be all over it. Yep, I thought the point you made was very clear. what I don't get, a group of seemingly experienced people, deciding to paddle in conditions like that. But I definitely don't agree with more rules, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, henry d said: Pfds can't be burst nor can they fail to inflate, and no one wants to be puffing into a tube in a life threatening situation. You have added the “inflatable” aspect, the vast majority of life jackets are made from the same material as PFDs, it is only the very fancy that inflate automatically. All wearing life jackets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: You have added the “inflatable” aspect, the vast majority of life jackets are made from the same material as PFDs, it is only the very fancy that inflate automatically. All wearing life jackets! The reason the personnel in the picture are wearing life jackets rather than PFDs is that none of them are intending to intentionally enter the water. The yellow helmets of the fire crew indicate they are first responders and will provide bank based safety only. I’m no expert on the RNlLI but assume their mission spec is to usually stay in the boar. Any swift water rescue technicians who would be wading and swimming would be wearing a red helmet to indicate their skill set and would also be wearing a PFD as it is more practical and flexible piece of kit for that role and environment. Edited November 1, 2021 by Jonty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 A life jacket is designed to keep your head out of the water, where as a PFD will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 I’ve done a bit of swimming falling in from my canoe in cold water, sometimes with a buoyancy aid sometimes with a life jacket. The difference is significant, and that was without a strong current. The cold water shock with a PFD and how far under you go before coming back up and having to fight upright, with a life jacket you bob up and ok it is hard to swim but it is very easy to float. No way I would go in late October to a river in spate, over a weir with just a buoyancy aid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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