Rewulf Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I didn't comment in the build-up as I wasn't sure what was actually going on and why but there were various views expressed by others. The US and UK warned of an invasion. From the news channels I'm seeing, a clear picture of the start of an invasion and occupation is evident. To me the build up was a bit too obvious as a real intention of invasion. The amount of flak Russia took , as the exercises/invasion force progressed was pretty intense, and maybe that was the tipping point ? I still think the whole thing was a Russian bluff at first, but the US and NATO pumped up the rhetoric so much, Putin probably thought, to hell with it , just do it anyway. Where it ends is anyones guess now , I certainly dont think he has any intentions outside of Ukraine , despite the bluster and ramblings of 'diplomats' preaching , 'He wont stop till hes in Paris !' type of thing. But if I was a Ukrainian this morning , I might be thinking to myself, if only those westerners had just shut up about it ? 6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Regarding what might have changed, didn't the US basically give him the go-ahead on the basis that neither US nor NATO forces would step in to stop him? Like I say , its like they wanted this. One sure fire way to get some EU members to up their defence budgets theyve been slacking on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Thats probably because they have had the same measures used against them for the last 30 years ? Sanctions may or may not hurt them, but I wouldnt expect them to just curl up and die, because like a wild animal backed into a corner, theres only one course of action. I am a bit surprised that no one offered a buffer zone type solution in Donbass, there doesnt seem to be a valid reason why not ? But then, I am very cynical that the west didnt actually WANT this to happen. It is , and maybe they will, are they ready ? Will the US fire on Chinese forces if they attack Taiwan ? Im not sure they will. What they do like to do is sell Taiwan lots of very expensive arms, when it comes to risking American lives, not so much when the stakes are much higher. Its alright bombing some opium farmers back to the stone age, but a nuclear armed, hi tech superpower , with unlimited budget. Taiwan will be on its own. Yes there will be sanctions, and that suits the US , for a while. Agreed. The structure of the Security Council was a disaster waiting to happen. Given the calibre of the minds present when it was drawn up, it staggers me that they didn't see this coming and put in contingency plans for a circumvention. I don't even think it would have been that tricky; the US Senate's got protocol to bypass filibusters after all I'm not sure China would attack Taiwan; I think Xi is cleverer than that. He won't take a Queen if he thinks he can take two Bishops, a Knight and a Rook by leaving it on the board. China might bluster about Taiwan, but with Xi, economy trumps foreign policy. If/when Xi makes his move, my bet is it will be to make economic profit. That's the big difference between him and Putin. Putin is no different to the General Secretaries of the Soviet Union. He'd happily cripple the economy if it shows defiance to the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 How come with so much waring I earlier watched a clip from a border post showing a column of tanks allegedly entering Ukraine unmolested. No mines under the road no anti tank fire??? Blackpowder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Blackpowder said: How come with so much waring I earlier watched a clip from a border post showing a column of tanks allegedly entering Ukraine unmolested. No mines under the road no anti tank fire??? No prepared positions, no troops moved up, no real state of readiness, its like they didnt really expect it to happen. Because they didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Smokersmith said: How do you see that playing out? They are mates, have big rockets and not that good at English dialogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 53 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: Putin is a genius that literally out played everyone. His timing is impeccable. Western Europe shut the bad nuclear plants down and built natural gas one so they depend on Russian resources. China is planning on expanding their influence. America is led by a weak president who doesn’t have the support of its people. No he is insane and needs to removed by his own people ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: No he is insane and needs to removed by his own people ASAP. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I can't believe that its beyond the capabilities of the wests security services to arrange an assassination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said: Putin is a genius that literally out played everyone. His timing is impeccable. Western Europe shut the bad nuclear plants down and built natural gas one so they depend on Russian resources. China is planning on expanding their influence. America is led by a weak president who doesn’t have the support of its people. The price of genius seems to have come down a touch! 14 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: No he is insane and needs to removed by his own people ASAP. Agreed 6 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said: I can't believe that its beyond the capabilities of the wests security services to arrange an assassination... Heart attacks just don't happen to the right people, do they? Edited February 24, 2022 by chrisjpainter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, MirokuMK70 said: I can't believe that its beyond the capabilities of the wests security services to arrange an assassination... I thought we were the good guys , above all that nastiness ? On a more serious note, it all depends on who replaces him, they could be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 They do have some very nice church spires worth visiting in Moscow I believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: The price of genius seems to have come down a touch! Agreed Heart attacks just don't happen to the right people, do they? I never said he was a nice guy. But he is very intelligent. 2008 Russians take Georgia, 2014 they take Crimea, now they will take the Ukrain. All while the West accused Trump of saber rattling when he asked them to modernize their defense forces. Russia doesn’t fear sanctions. They hold millions of acres of good farmland and huge fuel reserves. They share a trade routes with China. They will fair far better then the European Union. All I know is this is going to cost American taxpayers trillions of dollars. Because everything that happens in the world some how cost me Tax dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Plus like I said it’s a win for Biden. Russia and China are deep in Biden family pockets. Plus Biden gets a excuse for the USAs ****ty economic policies. We are going into the midterm elections and all you will hear is how the economy is Russias ls fault. The gas prices are Russia’s fault. The food cost is Russia’s fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 20 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: I never said he was a nice guy. But he is very intelligent. 2008 Russians take Georgia, 2014 they take Crimea, now they will take the Ukrain. All while the West accused Trump of saber rattling when he asked them to modernize their defense forces. Russia doesn’t fear sanctions. They hold millions of acres of good farmland and huge fuel reserves. They share a trade routes with China. They will fair far better then the European Union. All I know is this is going to cost American taxpayers trillions of dollars. Because everything that happens in the world some how cost me Tax dollars. Maybe you should tell the Russian Stock exchange, down 45% at one point today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Can anyone explain why Putin invaded Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: Trump spent 4 years telling Eastern Europe to build a better defense force and modernize. He literally said this exact thing was going to happen. He was ridiculed and was told the Cold War was over and to stop the saber rattling. But unfortunately Putin never would have invaded under Trumps watch and the world would have laughed and said all the money that was spent on Eastern European weapons should have been spent building summer camps to teach nonbinary them/they’s to explore there sexuality. Yes. 2 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: Putin is a genius that literally out played everyone. His timing is impeccable. Western Europe shut the bad nuclear plants down and built natural gas one so they depend on Russian resources. China is planning on expanding their influence. America is led by a weak president who doesn’t have the support of its people. And yes again, Putin showed his intentions, saw no response or resistance and moved. I'm still wondering if Russia can literally turn the gas off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Putin's actions might not be as popular in Moscow as some might have assumed: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/no-choice-but-to-invade-ukraine-kremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Imperfection said: Can anyone explain why Putin invaded Ukraine? It’s somewhere in .. He thinks he owns it He sees it as a threat He sees it as part of mother Russia He thinks he can win He’s a nutter He wants a bigger empire No idea exactly where, but somewhere in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: It’s somewhere in .. He thinks he owns it He sees it as a threat He sees it as part of mother Russia He thinks he can win He’s a nutter He wants a bigger empire No idea exactly where, but somewhere in there. 75% Eastern Ukraine speaks Russian and considers itself Russian. Putin was to return to its former geopolitical power. Seize deep water ports on the Black Sea. Putin is kinda a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, MirokuMK70 said: I can't believe that its beyond the capabilities of the wests security services to arrange an assassination... No doubt he is the most protected person in the world plenty of home grown enemies who would like to see his demise. We dont know of what plots on his life have been thwarted. Blackpowder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: And there has been conflict in Eastern Ukraine for many years. Regarding what might have changed, didn't the US basically give him the go-ahead on the basis that neither US nor NATO forces would step in to stop him? I'll go with that. Does anyone know if Ukraine got an invite to join NATO like its neighbours and declined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Smokersmith said: It’s somewhere in .. He thinks he owns it He sees it as a threat He sees it as part of mother Russia He thinks he can win He’s a nutter He wants a bigger empire No idea exactly where, but somewhere in there. All of the above... I still cant get over the premise that putin see a threat so starts a war in case Edited February 24, 2022 by islandgun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 15 minutes ago, islandgun said: All of the above... I still cant get over the premise that putin see a threat so starts a war in case Art of war, get there first, bring the most soldiers, but your not supposed to tell people you're coming? I still think he's seen no opposition to oppose him, why would we or the USA put boots on the ground in the Ukraine? So everyone watches, I don't think much will be done unless they keep going after Ukraine, but they might well wait a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mice! said: Art of war, get there first, bring the most soldiers, but your not supposed to tell people you're coming? I still think he's seen no opposition to oppose him, why would we or the USA put boots on the ground in the Ukraine? So everyone watches, I don't think much will be done unless they keep going after Ukraine, but they might well wait a few years. We can anticipate some major armaments and troop number increases in eastern NATO countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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