HSE lead ammo proposals - FAQs and updates

[Conor O'Gorman]

Today BASC has published a list of FAQs about the Health and Safety Executive proposals to restrict lead ammunition in England, Wales and Scotland. Click the weblink below for the FAQs and other updates.

www.basc.org.uk/lead/

In summary what is proposed is as follows:

• ban on the sale of lead shot
• ban on the use of all types of lead ammunition for live quarry shooting including lead shot, shotgun slugs, lead bullets and airgun pellets
• ban on the use of lead shot for outdoor target shooting with possible exemptions for licensed athletes at licensed ranges with appropriate environmental protection measures
• ban on the use of lead bullets and airgun pellets for outdoor target shooting with possible exemptions for shooting at licensed ranges with appropriate environmental protection measures
• mandatory labelling of the packaging of lead ammunition regarding the hazards and risks of lead.

The proposed transition periods for the above restrictions to take effect would vary from 18 months to five years. Buy-back schemes for lead shot cartridges and rifle ammunition have been proposed.

The FAQs are a first draft and further updates will follow so if you think anything is missing or needs better explanation on the proposals please comment below, DM or email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk

 

 

[Newbie to this]

[Vince Green]

end game

[Dave at kelton]

This train has been coming down the EU track for sometime regrettably!

[Old farrier]

Just a thought here 

when they ban lead ? 
will all guns proofed for lead become out off proof 

I ask this as a genuine question 

im aware that you can fire steel in most guns however they proof test with lead so technically there proof for something that’s illegal to use 

so will the proof houses have to change how they proof guns in the future?

also the small bores how can you proof for something that as yet unavoidable or manufactured 

[Vince Green]

The economic impact will kill what is already an extremely fragile industry. Already hanging on by the thinnest profit magins imaginable

Why outdoor target shooting? range regulations already require de leading on a regular basis

What about muzzle loader? does a 200 year old rifle fired perhaps twenty times a year in some historical competition represent a threat to the environment????

EXemption for Muzzle loaders absolutely essencial

Edited May 11, 2022 by Vince Green

[8 shot]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

ban on the sale of lead shot

 

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

mandatory labelling of the packaging of lead ammunition regarding the hazards and risks of lead.

Seems a bit contradictary 

[enfieldspares]

So this unqualified ban that HSE has proposed shouldn't go ahead unlike the at the time unqualified ban that BASC proposed? Because be clear when in February 2020 BASC led this call for a voluntary ban it was published with no derogations, exceptions or exemptions proposed. Yet now is BASC saying that there should be derogations, exceptions and exemptions? That BASC saw fit not to mention two and a half years ago?
 

[clangerman]

swear filter prevents the sort of comment this deserves! 

[matone]

`Oh goody`said the turkey,Christmas is almost here ......

[wisdom]

So if I understand it correctly.Virtually all clay grounds will have to close and all my guns will be valueless.This is effectively the end of shooting for many of us.None of the clay grounds around me allow steel shot.And as for game shooting the impact will be massive.

Then there's all the suppliers of shooting gear from clays to clothing massive Financial impact

[Feltwad]

8 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The economic impact will kill what is already an extremely fragile industry. Already hanging on by the thinnest profit magins imaginable

Why outdoor target shooting? range regulations already require de leading on a regular basis

What about muzzle loader? does a 200 year old rifle fired perhaps twenty times a year in some historical competition represent a threat to the environment????

EXemption for Muzzle loaders absolutely essencial

Has a muzzle loader shooter I total agree I would also add early hammer guns with Damascus barrels  which would be ruined using  shot other than lead .

Feltwad

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Come on Connor,

1.  What does BASC and the other "horsemen of the apocalypse" think will happen?

2.  Have BASC and all the other shooting organisations sold us down the river?

3.  Will the few surviving big shoots and wealthy shooters carry on with their enjoyment at the expense of the vast majority of shooters?

4.  Previous "Buy Back" schemes have not been fit for purpose, will the next one be any different?

5.  How many Members does BASC actually have?

[Old farrier]

16 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Come on Connor,

1.  What does BASC and the other "horsemen of the apocalypse" think will happen?

2.  Have BASC and all the other shooting organisations sold us down the river?

3.  Will the few surviving big shoots and wealthy shooters carry on with their enjoyment at the expense of the vast majority of shooters?

4.  Previous "Buy Back" schemes have not been fit for purpose, will the next one be any different?

5.  How many Members does BASC actually have?

Are you really expecting answers 😂😂

I’d like to add one 

connor are you anti gun ownership and shooting ?

[8 shot]

44 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

connor are you anti gun ownership and shooting ?

From his CV he has done work for the RSPB. Which are another shambles wasting plenty of public money 

[Old farrier]

31 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

From his CV he has done work for the RSPB. Which are another shambles wasting plenty of public money 

Well it won’t be the first time a anti has worked for BASC with there own agenda 

I’m waiting to see some science on this 🙄

[strimmer_13]

And there's me thinking this was the joke section 

[Vince Green]

This isnt just down to BASC 

what about CPSA? have they said anything?

what about NRA? have they said anything?

what about NSRA? have they said anything?

what about MLAGB? have they said anything?

these proposals will bankrupt every gun shop in the country, virtually every club and clay ground. When they banned handguns about half the gun shops in London area folded. They could still sell shotguns and rifles but their takings went down and they couldn't survive on the reduced turnover  j

[8 shot]

11 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The economic impact will kill what is already an extremely fragile industry. Already hanging on by the thinnest profit magins imaginable

We’ve just started drilling game and cover crop and talking to shoot owners  the signs aren’t good. They’re all looking at scaling right down or folding which means no game, cover or bird mix crops, a much bigger picture needs factoring in here. The few shoots we do work for spend on average £10,000 a year on seed alone. All will revert back to arable without shooting. 

[grahamch]

3 hours ago, wisdom said:

So if I understand it correctly.Virtually all clay grounds will have to close and all my guns will be valueless.This is effectively the end of shooting for many of us.None of the clay grounds around me allow steel shot.And as for game shooting the impact will be massive.

Then there's all the suppliers of shooting gear from clays to clothing massive Financial impact

They use steel shot for clays on the continent, Denmark etc so why cant our shooting grounds adopt?

3 hours ago, Feltwad said:

Has a muzzle loader shooter I total agree I would also add early hammer guns with Damascus barrels  which would be ruined using  shot other than lead .

Feltwad

Not true you can use bismuth through damascus 

[London Best]

The Danes found that steel through old Damascus guns did no harm.

[Whitebridges]

10 hours ago, clangerman said:

swear filter prevents the sort of comment this deserves! 

Same here. This whole ban lead thing is a nonsense. Has anyone tried non lead air rifle pellets? They are hopeless much lighter and can easily put a sub 12ft lb gun over the limit. As for non lead rifle bullets, you're having a laugh BASC !

I quote:

“BASC remains fully committed to the five-year VOLUNTARY transition away from using lead shot for live quarry shooting that has made such significant progress under challenging conditions.

“Given the severity of the proposed restrictions, the VOLUNTARY transition has afforded the sector a head-start in the move away from lead ammunition.”

The key here is VOLUNTARY so I won't get put in jail if I don't comply will I ?  

If the BASC keep pushing this twaddle I won't be paying them a membership fee. I'd rather join a more pragmatic group who are against a lead ban. 

 

[Whitebridges]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

This isnt just down to BASC 

what about CPSA? have they said anything?

what about NRA? have they said anything?

what about NSRA? have they said anything?

what about MLAGB? have they said anything?

these proposals will bankrupt every gun shop in the country, virtually every club and clay ground. When they banned handguns about half the gun shops in London area folded. They could still sell shotguns and rifles but their takings went down and they couldn't survive on the reduced turnover  j

Good post Vince. This Lead ban will be the Death Knell of shooting in this country as we know it.

Why do shooters have to carry the overarching anti pollution issue?  There's lead everywhere or is going to be cleared up? Not to mention other pollutants that are not high on the agenda as they are complex and expensive to resolve and unpopular to sort out. Global warming being an example. Lead should be lower on the big picture agenda.    

Edited May 12, 2022 by Whitebridges

[PeterHenry]

This is ultimately the result of things that have been moving around in the EU for a long time. BASC and the other organisations noticed this and quite sensibly tried to put forward their own time line for events. We shall see if that happens, but regardless, the organisations (for all the faults both real and imagined that some pin to them) have my gratitude for trying to do something, as opposed to the Canute like approch advocated by others.

Regardless, we shall see what happens. As has been touched on - I think there are two issues -

1 - does 'non-toxic' work in old guns? This, in my mind is a technical matter. And although we may have to accept some trade-off's is certainly not the end to shooting. There is a far better choice of steel cartridges now than a few years ago - the same goes for other alternitives like Bio Ammo Blue. 

2 - how are cartridge manufacturers overheads going to ripple out to retailers (as @Vince Green pointed out). I think that may be potentially a far greater problem than is being credited.

Finally, I did take up BASC's offer, that can be found at the bottom of some of their articles on lead - and as a member, emailed @Conor O'Gorman who I have found to be an entirely decent sort of chap in what limited exchanges I have previously had with him. My suggestion being that a derogation is argued for homeloading lead shot - this would not lead to any great amount of lead entering the environment, due to the genreal faff involved, and in principle wouldent be any diffrent to a derogation for muzzle loaders - which I think is sensible enough.

At the end of the day, this is happening in some form or another whether we like it or not. I'm going to live with it, because I'd rarther continue shooting, and if its managed sensibly, its not the end of the world that a lot of you seem to be makeing out.

Edited May 12, 2022 by PeterHenry

[clangerman]

some people wouldn’t admit they have been sold down the river if they were on a boat might as well give up now unreal!