mellors Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said: was at the northern shoot show just gone and there was a small stand called Vouzelaud ammunition, touting some ammo thats currently getting developed in europe. its £200 a slab so its very expensive but the bloke just said its early days. main issues theyve alread cracked are its steel, its bio, and it can be fired through any choke and its standard pressure. and the bloke said they shift in the region of 1300 fps https://www.livequarrysteel.com/ main thing i took away from it is once these kind of solutions and tech become common place economy of scale and competition will see the prices get to a point that the margins are small. Also fiocchi are testing various wads and cases. There's no way we'll be able to continue as we are we've got to accept lead and plastic is going. Unfortunately there is understandably a lot of people not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, mellors said: Also fiocchi are testing various wads and cases. There's no way we'll be able to continue as we are we've got to accept lead and plastic is going. Unfortunately there is understandably a lot of people not happy. indeed in accepting both are going is also to accept that also going will be small gauges shotgun, muzzle loaders, black powder revolvers, etc etc. They are already available in the B&P range, fiocchi own B&P https://green-core.baschieri-pellagri.com/en/ As we accept the current prices as the normal I do not see them dropping at anytime, with £400 plus, plus becoming the new normal and very probably the end of home loading, I can see myself either shooting very much less or not at all with shotguns, focusing on what ever the future (if any) is for airguns and .22lr fishing will replace the shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisdom Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 8 hours ago, grahamch said: They use steel shot for clays on the continent, Denmark etc so why cant our shooting grounds adopt? Not true you can use bismuth through damascus It's the grounds rules not mine.I presume ricochets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: indeed in accepting both are going is also to accept that also going will be small gauges shotgun, muzzle loaders, black powder revolvers, etc etc. They are already available in the B&P range, fiocchi own B&P https://green-core.baschieri-pellagri.com/en/ As we accept the current prices as the normal I do not see them dropping at anytime, with £400 plus, plus becoming the new normal and very probably the end of home loading, I can see myself either shooting very much less or not at all with shotguns, focusing on what ever the future (if any) is for airguns and .22lr fishing will replace the shooting. I agree its not looking good but i think we'll have to wait a year or so. I can't see the manufacturers giving up. Luckily Europe is in the same dilemma and hopefully the sheer volumes in all calibers they've been used to selling will motivate them to address the the issues. Can't see me fishing ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Scully said: Every cloud as they say. 👍 ask the bait shop if they do refunds mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, clangerman said: ask the bait shop if they do refunds mate I wouldn't ask mine. Went in to buy a fishing bag for all my bits i carry and put in the hide it was also a cold bag £69. I'll tell you i have never met such an obnoxious know it all before. I walked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Smokersmith said: Pigeon Watch 🤣 Sorry I was meaning an official representative body, not a forum. 3 hours ago, mellors said: Also fiocchi are testing various wads and cases. There's no way we'll be able to continue as we are we've got to accept lead and plastic is going. Unfortunately there is understandably a lot of people not happy. Was also tin shot which has been tried beofre and dropped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 When all these doom and gloom merchants that say they are packing up shooting actually do so, there will be lots of vacant permissions waiting for the rest of us to take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 Necessity is the mother of invention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Stimo22 said: Belgium , Holland, Denmark and Germany for most shotgun use, but USA and others including UK for wildfowl. Did many duck shooters pack up when the rules change Do visitors from those Countries that come here in large numbers to partake in our game shooting, bring their steel shot cartridges with them, I wonder ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Westley said: Do visitors from those Countries that come here in large numbers to partake in our game shooting, bring their steel shot cartridges with them, I wonder ? NO !!! as i've said in another thread most i've known have if not all used lead for pigeon and game some still use plastic wads. It's a myth they prefer Steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 Funny you should say that because in my experience all of the commercial shoots that they attend, supply them with LEAD shot cartridges with fibre wads ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted May 12, 2022 Report Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) Mother used to do B+B for endless Europeans coming here pigeon shooting most brought cartriges here always lead and they ALL took pigeons back with them, popular in Europe by all accounts. And as i understand it the "Pigeon Guide" had a very healthy business supplying pigeons, shot with lead back to French and Belgium restaurants. Edited May 12, 2022 by 8 shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 9 hours ago, London Best said: When all these doom and gloom merchants that say they are packing up shooting actually do so, there will be lots of vacant permissions waiting for the rest of us to take over. 👍Like I said….every cloud and all that. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 9 hours ago, 8 shot said: Mother used to do B+B for endless Europeans coming here pigeon shooting most brought cartriges here always lead and they ALL took pigeons back with them, popular in Europe by all accounts. And as i understand it the "Pigeon Guide" had a very healthy business supplying pigeons, shot with lead back to French and Belgium restaurants. I think this is the case - simple easy error - but for clarity do you have an "r" where you shouldn't - makes a big difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, wymberley said: I think this is the case - simple easy error - but for clarity do you have an "r" where you shouldn't - makes a big difference? Wow!!!!. We must be getting good at this posting lark. Only one mistake in the whole thread (maybe not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 12 hours ago, London Best said: When all these doom and gloom merchants that say they are packing up shooting actually do so, there will be lots of vacant permissions waiting for the rest of us to take over. game shootings biggest amount of support comes from all those grassroots boys struggling with cost thanks to game shooting pushing this rubbish they will simply switch to cheaper forms such as air rifles and dump all their support for game shooting in return a fair exchange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Or just use alternative shot and crack on .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev1gun Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Well if there's no shooting, there's no BASC so they should be careful what they wish for. looking through the call for evidence document by REACH they haven't a clue how damaging lead is, but they are going to ban it anyway, I would have thought Plastic was a more pressing issue than Lead myself! The questions in the document/survey are designed so we can't answer them accurately, so it will go through unopposed without so much as a whimper from any of the organisations. It needs to be proportional though, Game shooters and clay shooters use a lot more lead than say some who shots 50 foxes a year with a 50 grain vmax Each time you pull the trigger on a shotgun 437 grains of lead is sent on its way, compare to 50 grains of lead, but we will all be treated the same no doubt because we are all in it together. There doesn't seem to be any real alternative ammunition for the Air rifle users amongst us, so the Rat population will increase quite quickly I would think because a lot of people will pack it in, there is an amazing amount of free pest control goes on each week unpaid, will this be taken into account, as usual the people making the decisions know ****** all about what any of us does, and the Irony for me is most of them in London are probably drinking water from a lead pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 I'd happily dump using plastic cases and switch to paper cases stuffed with lead shot. Surely that would be environmentally friendly step in the right direction? If our government truly wants our nation sign up to end global scourge of plastic pollution this should have been done years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterse Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 How much harm is lead actually doing? Doesn’t it all pale into insignificance when you consider the devastation going on in Ukraine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted May 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 Thanks @PeterHenry for the comment and email on home loading and @Old farrierfor the comment on proofing - we may add a FAQ on that. We will continue to update our advice and FAQs on the restriction proposals consultation based on queries and suggestions that come to our attention. https://basc.org.uk/lead/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 4 hours ago, clangerman said: game shootings biggest amount of support comes from all those grassroots boys And steel is more than capable for the massive majority of game shot this way ... assuming you're one of those that can put it in the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: And steel is more than capable for the massive majority of game shot this way ... assuming you're one of those that can put it in the right place. However steel shot and the speed required for it to perform properly is not very pleasant to shoot in a light game gun it seems that we will be shooting game with heavy wildfowling guns in the future or not at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted May 13, 2022 Report Share Posted May 13, 2022 I don't think game shooting will be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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